A barrage of insults from the terminally disenfranchised
You started it. Or would you argue that your post was in fact a paragon of positive contributions to the discussion? No, you just rocked up to interrupt and cause bother. Which you did, well done, you must be very proud.
So anyone who has a different point of view is a troll.
No, anyone actually literally posting saying "Thought I would drop in and troll for a while" is a troll by their own ****ing definition.
You don't have a "different point of view," you haven't expressed any point of view at all. You've just rocked up to sling your own faeces about so that you can take the moral high ground when people wipe it off.
Hey Daz, that 'stereotype' thing you were on about...?
A barrage of insults...
Is there? Where?
My first reply could be construed as insulting I suppose. Hardly a 'barrage' mind.
What it couldn't be construed as is inaccurate. But y'know, gobby brexiters and reality have always been uncomfortable bedfellows. Leavers and leaver apologists have been making shit up to argue against for quite some time now, see the last two or three pages for a couple of recent examples. It'll be the Lisbon Treaty and an EU army next.
My first reply could be construed as insulting I suppose. Hardly a ‘barrage’ mind.
Only the desperate to be offended would be offended by a bit of sarcasm to a blatant troll.
Can we keep him?
Doing anything useful to make Brexit work?
More detail needed here, I feel.
In my interactions with Brexiteers 'making Brexit work' is basically 'stop pointing out our massive fail because we don't like it being pointed out'.
Errrrr......
No.
Had a discussion with a pro brexit cyclist in my shop the other day regards, German import dutys....
His view was, maybe we'll get back the British cottage industry of bike parts, like we had in the 90's? Didn't like it when I pointed out that that industry only blossomed because A: it was a developing sport and everyone was trying new things (some didn't work so those companies don't exist now)... & B: they could also sell to 26 other countries MTBs at significantly cheaper cost than now, so financial it wouldn't be the same.
Why are so many Brexiters obsessed with the past?
On a side note, brexit has cost my family/ and small buisness an additional £325.55 since January. Any one else worked out their personal cost of brexit.
Any one else worked out their personal cost of brexit.
I don't buy much other than food and bikes and with the bikes sorted in 2018 that's it for a decade, so most personal cost is the time and effort of dealing with it at work.
At work - until January we exported food with about 50% to the EU. That's been a logistics disaster which we're just about on top of. We can't yet say what its cost as the logistics chains haven't settled down completely, but at least £300k per year is the running estimate. With delays and no benefit at all. So that's £60k less tax to the UK Treasury.
And we still sell to all those other countries we did before Brexit which the EU never stopped us doing. Can't see any trade deal giving us any benefit ever. Oh, apart from China, where they are busy trying to erect barriers to trade and the UK is discovering just how trivial and irrelevant its sovereignty is compared to China's. being part of the EU might have helped.
In the interests of keeping this thread useful and relevant, would it be possible to keep it about brexit information, rather than the constant to and fro of opinion?
It was a useful one stop shop for brexit news that might otherwise get lost in the sea of noise.
On a side note, brexit has cost my family/ and small buisness an additional £325.55 since January. Any one else worked out their personal cost of brexit.
My employer is down ~£170k against plan already this calendar year (tier3 automotive using EU raw materials and exporting JIT into EU).
Increased admin costs, air freight as land transport is missing JIT slots (huge financial penalties for line stoppage at tier 1) coupled with a force majeure at a EU raw materials supplier.
I'm under absolute immense pressure to make engineering efficiency savings on raw materials were ever possible. Apprentice scheme culled, all temps finished. Budgets slashed. Massive pressure.
Most of my work colleagues voted Brexit despite our vulnerable position.
OK. How about "does anyone who voted for Brexit to get rid of unelected bureaucrats feel even a little bit moronic?"
Unelected but in the actual cabinet making decisions
Calling people thick, racist and telling them to sort out the mess they created by voting for brexit is going to get us nowhere. Unfortunately a lot of people were mislead and an affable blonde got the vote over the line. So this is where we are, I don't have any solutions but I sure as hell won't be gloating over any of my colleagues at head office (13 miles from Bolsover) when covid restrictions are lifted.
Why Bolsover voted brexit
Well in my work (cancer research) we are being told we should still apply for Horizon 2021-2027 grants.
I think quite a lot will be as funding is so tight, although the government are still negotiating the exact details & scarily it will be reviewed annually to balance what we pay in vs what we pay out (which is a big worry as UK we're a huge net gainers from the scheme)
We are now excluded from the accelerator fund (the same bit BioNtech used to develop their RNA vaccine tech)
The UK has received 1/3rd less funding since the vote & it made up 20% od academic research funding.
With the huge fall in grant money available thanks to the pandemic (charity fundraising has collapsed) there's a lot of panic about where money is coming from.
Many of our reagents come from the EU, (our costs are continually rising thanks to weak £ & now border delays and that alone has hit our research) there are simply no alternatives for some products that are highly specialised
We've lost quite a few EU scientists, which is a shame, but a lot have applied for citizenship and have stayed.
I'd be interested to hear @thatscold or any brexiteers take on that?
Oooooh.
That picture of Frost just makes me think "there is a face I could never tire of punching".
“does anyone who voted for Brexit to get rid of unelected bureaucrats feel even a little bit moronic?”
He's got a plummy English accent, doesn't he? That's all that matters.
I think you have been overly optimistic if you were expecting significant benefits at this stage of proceedings.
Patience required now people.
Empathy and understanding also required I'm afraid, don't be part of the problem, rise above it👍
Personal cost to date- I don't know, very little yet....but I was supposed to be doing a 4 week job/event in Europe this summer that has been cancelled. Personally, I'll be down about 9k, but I figure there were probably about 2000 UK based technicians working on it as well, all earning the at least the same, and some much more. How much the treasury will loose? , I can't be bothered to work it out. I had 3 months off last year, what with one thing and another, so a good solid 4 weeks work this year was/is needed.
When I say the event was cancelled, I mean to UK technicians, the event carries on.
the event carries on.
Much like the rest of the world.
I think you have been overly optimistic if you were expecting significant benefits at this stage of proceedings.
Patience required now people.
No. Sorry, but just No. There was patience through the negotiation cycle, but having been presented with a car crash to negotiate and a wholly negative short term outlook, those benefits need to be listed now for there to be any. We were promised all these great deals ready to go from day 1. Not a sniff yet. So sorry, no patience, I've got bills to pay.
We're part of the problem against our will.
Madame will no longer be taking 60 odd pupils to the UK each year which was worth at least 20k to the economy.
All of our UK investments have been swapped to EU funds apart from one current account HSBC is happy to keep open for the moment but may have to be closed in a few months.
When/if we visit the UK again we won't be buying anything beyond what we need to subsist as it would either be confiscated or taxed on return.
No more orders to CRC, pity, they are no longer competitive with D/Fr.
So exsee when can we expect to see things getting good?
Good points here about the governments continued antagonistic approach
(personally I think they care only about stoking brexit/culture war issues & keeping the country divided)
https://blogs.surrey.ac.uk/politics/2021/02/18/why-be-such-a-pain/
I think you have been overly optimistic if you were expecting significant benefits at this stage of proceedings.
Patience required now people.
Bollox. There are no benefits to be had ever. Only costs.
Oldbloke, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the deal done is not going to be delivering any significant benefits for a loooong time💩, look for the tiny signs and reset your expectations would be my advice.
Push for political change if you have any free time👊
I think you have been overly optimistic if you were expecting significant benefits at this stage of proceedings.
That's fine. What significant benefits are you looking forward to?
(personally I think they care only about stoking brexit/culture war issues & keeping the country divided)
It's the secret to their success... always be looking to win the campaign... actually governing the country comes a distant second. It is why I fully expect them to win again... because they are happy to inflict damage on the country if it's part of a successful re-election campaign. They are ruthless, and they will win. The country will not.
Tjagain, there is always potential to benefit from change.
I think your link about London losing some of it's clout in the financial services has potential to be a benefit of brexit, the UK should not be so heavily focused on London FS.
Refocussing away from the City is fine, if Brexit didn't also hit all our other sectors.
All well and good exsee but what are you replacing the lost revenue with?
Why are so many Brexiters obsessed with the past?
For the same reason rightwing parties all the world are staring culture wars and indulging in manufactured outrage...it’s pretty much the only thing that attracts younger people to their parties. They’re not stupid, they’ve learnt the political lessons since the 90s that 1. The world is getting younger and 2. The young want things to change.
I think your link about London losing some of it’s clout in the financial services has potential to be a benefit of brexit, the UK should not be so heavily focused on London FS.
That is not a brexit bonus - we could have done that while in the EU. all the london losses are going to do is damage balance of payments
That is not a brexit bonus – we could have done that while in the EU. all the london losses are going to do is damage balance of payments
Plus lost tax revenue.
This is not the 'why did we leave thread' tjagain.
We could have done wonderful things in the EU, we can do wonderful things outside the EU. Change brings opportunity for the progressives too.
Political change,integration, a fairer society, education, empathy and understanding are all still available👍
not under the tories!
When will we start to see the benefits exsee?
& what will they be?
Cos at the moment I can only see negatives & no even long term positives...
I think your link about London losing some of it’s clout in the financial services has potential to be a benefit of brexit, the UK should not be so heavily focused on London FS.
Rebalancing the economy is no good if you just subtract from one area and don't get anything for the other areas.
Housing is unequal - some people live in big 5 bed detached, some people in 2 bed terraces. So if we just pull down all the 5 bed detached houses, that's better cos it's more equal, right?
When will we start to see the benefits exsee?
& what will they be?
1. At an unspecified point in the future.
2. Unicorns for all.
Want to buy a used car whilst we're at it?
Political change,integration, a fairer society, education, empathy and understanding are all still available
Motherhood and apple pie is always available.
Could you start detailing these "significant benefits" you were talking about, rather than listing some things we can still do (if we can find a way)?
I know you're trying to be a silly billy Molgrips but there is an element of truth in your analogy😱
Perception of equality is a small but significant piece of the puzzle.
The UK can downsize and be significantly better off in my opinion, I'm not a believer in the 'if it's good for the economy it must be good for society' mantra. You don't need the world's biggest economy to have a happy and balanced society🏌️🚵🏇🛀🌈
Brexit benefits?
Oh - and how can a downsized economy be good?
Political change,
Nothing to do with the EU.
integration,
Nothing to do with the EU.
a fairer society,
Nothing to do with the EU.
education,
Nothing to do with the EU aside from a massive chunk of funding we've just lost.
empathy and understanding are all still available👍
Surely one of the primary tenets of brexit.
Er, oh.
This is one of the (many) big embuggerances with brexit. All the reasons cited back in 2016 which actually sounded like a good idea were domestic issues in the first place. We could have made changes and we chose not to. Yes, including everyone's favourite subject, immigration. It was never going to solve the things it claimed to solve, you were sold a lie.
Besides which,
These are just ephemeral words that in isolation are meaningless.
What do you mean by, say, 'education'? What about it? Can we have more of it now? Were the EU preventing us from opening universities? What do you think about all the ERASMUS opportunities we've just lost?
Same question for all those other things. What are you planning to integrate with what? Etc etc.
The catalyst for change is the significant benefit of brexit👍
Short term pain for long term gain, don't waste time dreaming of yesterday, it really wasn't that great🦃
Can I assume that non-answer means you don't know? What changes are you looking forward to, then?
How long do you envisage this short-term to be?
We
Have
Left
The
EU
The UK can still do all those wonderful things I mentioned though cougs👍
They are all still available, so let's choose them now, yes please and thank you
Again, instead of listing some (loosely defined) things we can still do, what are the “significant benefits” of Brexit you are looking forward to, and when?
I said they were still available👍,
Yes we can still educate, we can still integrate with countries, cultures, environmental challenges, yes we can still be prosperous, yes we can be have a fairer and more balanced society
Very lucky aren't we?
I would say we're looking at around 10-20 years of humble pie eating, maybe less if Labour climb out of the broom cupboard