I’m not so pessimistic Kelvin. Perhaps I am being naive but there has to be a point at which people decide the price being paid for this form of Brexit is too high.
Blame the EU/remoaners/immigrants. The price is high for freedom ONLY because of lefties and their beloved foreigners previously trapping us in that commie-infested unelected Eurocrat-hellhole Over There. What price freedom? Stiff upper lip, Dunkirk. Etc.
Repeat ad infinitum. That line ‘worked‘ now for decades to get us exactly where we are at, so what makes you think that even among the majority of those who voted ‘leave’ there are an appreciable number who think a no deal exit is somehow a ‘loss’ to our UK Sovereignty And Freedom? How can it be a ‘loss’ now that Britain England is free to Build Back Better?
Especially now it’s plain as day AS WE KNEW ALL ALONG that the EU were snakes in the grass. Better off out, the ‘loss’ is the fault of the EU/remoaners/immigrants. Dunkirk Spirit. It’s going to be hard. If you don’t like it then lump or leave. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. &c. </satire>
kelvin
Full MemberI think they need to be, if they want the organisation to survive this government’s full term.
Basically, they tried that and learned that a good horse gets ridden- straight after the election, when the beeb thought "phew, we did what they wanted, now we're safe" the tories simply cracked the whip harder.
They haven’t even started whipping the BBC yet… it’ll be flogged into complete submission by the next election.
Anyway… a choice quote from one of those eroding our international standing day by day…
https://twitter.com/adamjschwarz/status/1303307680329740288?s=21
Lovely. International isolation isn't enough. Going to full distance to pariah status it appears.
Meanwhile all the UKs potential trading partners, make a little note on their UK trade talks file
It says
"NOT TO BE TRUSTED"
Looking forward to having North Korean brie for lunch. I'm assuming they'll still want to trade with us..
TBF they've already told us it's ok to break UK law, see Barnard Castle/the illegal proroguing of parliament.
Did you see this article in yesterday’s Guardian?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/07/eu-has-powers-to-punish-uk-if-it-breaches-brexit-treaty-experts-warn
As @kelvin says, that will play straight into the hands of Leave as they turn it round to say "see, the EU were so upset at us leaving that they're punishing us, we're better off without them".
Now Plebs, sing a bit of Rule Britannia so we can asset strip some NHS while you're not looking.
Thing is EU couldn't care less what Brexiteers blame them for. We're gone and they will be protecting the interests of the remaining members. It's all just a "I'm brexitier than you" game now.
Passengers shouting at each other about how awful the iceberg is while the ship sinks and no one does anything about it.
"Yes, this does break international law in a very specific and limited way".
I must remember that if I ever have the misfortune to meet Brandon Lewis. After I've punched him in the mouth, I'll use that line.
Maybe Milosevic, Mladic and Karajdic tried that line too. Great company to be in if they did.
Meanwhile all the UKs potential trading partners, make a little note on their UK trade talks file
It says
“NOT TO BE TRUSTED”
That's the thing about lying and cheating. It feels clever and 'edgy' at first, but the chickens come home to roost in fairly short order.
That’s the thing about lying and cheating. It feels clever and ‘edgy’ at first, but the chickens come home to roost in fairly short order.
Really? The definition of ‘roosting chickens’ here presumably rests on whatever one considers to be ‘most fowl’?
there has to be a point at which people decide the price being paid for this form of Brexit is too high
I'm surprised this went unnoticed. Standards are slipping.
What form of brexit would you consider is worth paying for and at what cost?
^^^ at which the grown-ups point out the facts; it's an international treaty and, as such, there are penalties resulting from breaching it - the EU are not attempting to 'punish'.
In fact, it would be better if the grown-ups got this point out into the media now.
Who are these mythical grown ups?
@Cougar, really anything other than the cut your nose off to spite your face format we seem to be going for at present.
A compromise. UK makes compromise to the Eu to remain part of the customs union would be a start.
To be honest I think the best bet would be effective full membership of the EU with zero say. I trust the EU politicians far more than our current rabble.
When we had a say, we sent them ****s like Farage to waste their time.
A compromise. UK makes compromise to the Eu to remain part of the customs union would be a start.
What does that gain us? As close as possible to what we had before we left, only no longer having a seat at the table to be involved in the decision making? We were already "sick of being told what to do by Brussels" when fully one tenth of "Brussels" was UK MEPs. How well do you reckon actually being told what to by Brussels would go down?
That's been the problem with your "compromise" from day one and it's partly how we've arrived at this point today. Remainers don't want it because they recognise that it serves no purpose (other than damage limitation now we've withdrawn I suppose), it's mostly slightly worse that what we already have had only surrendering all control for no good reason; and leavers don't want either because it's not brexity enough for them, they see it as "brexit in name only."
Your compromise was only a compromise in that it united both sides in providing a solution neither of them wanted. It is, now, the least worst option but that ship has probably sailed. C'est la vie.
Who are these mythical grown ups?
ALL of the opposition parties, some tories, international law experts for starters; anyone capable of rational, independent, critical thinking.
This could all be solved by making the right to vote dependent on passing a basic IQ test.
On this basis we could probably lower the age that you become eligible to vote as many 12-13 year olds have enough about them to know that Brexit, Johnson, Farage, Cummings et al are utterly toxic.
Shame more 'adults' cannot see it.
Shame more ‘adults’ cannot see it.
They see what the rags like The Sun, The Daily Mail and The Daily Express tell them to. Dumbed down nationalistic tub-thumping politics mixed in with celebrity gossip and other distractions like Diana, house prices and things that either give you cancer or cure it.
Now Plebs, sing a bit of Rule Britannia
Rules, Britannia!
Britannia waives the rules!
(nicked from somewhere else, which I see as a fine British Empire tradition, anyhow)
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/08/britain-negotiate-brexit-deal-frosty
Do you reckon anyone in Government reads The Guardian?
Do you reckon anyone in Government reads The Guardian?
I imagine Cummings does with a view to how to smear troublesome graun journalists who tell the truth. Aaron Banks's campaign against Carole Cadwalladr is particularly insidious and nasty.
My local Tory MP has just been promoted to Maritime Minister - well done you toady prick!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-53538224
Even by the standards of this shower, when all previous standards of what is acceptable have been shredded, it’s quite something to see a government minister stand at the despatch box and say that, yes, they do indeed plan to renage on a legally binding treaty signed less than a year ago and, yes, that is indeed against international law. 😳
Anyone else think that when the actual proposals are published tomorrow, it will be nothing of the sort? And it’ll all have just been more bluff, bluster and bullshit from Johnson to stop the ERG headbangers from spoiling themselves again, and drum up some ‘Boris Battling for Britain’ headlines in the Daily Mail?
So its ok to break the law in a very specific and limited way. 🤷♀️
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1303311625643008000
I don't think it is a bluff. Whether it goes through or not, international credibility has been seriously damaged. I can't see the govt spending that sort of political capital for nothing.
D'you know, I thought a sort of resigned acceptance would have settled in by now, but I just find myself getting angrier by the day.
That’s because it isn’t “an event” to get behind us, it’s a process that is only going one way, for years, before someone can step in can try and arrest the decline. We are not looking at the end state now, there are years of things getting worse and worse in UK politics… because lies and promising to rip things up have been rewarded with the power to… keep lying and ripping things up. There are always more lies and wanton destruction to come.
So its ok to break the law in a very specific and limited way.
I have made a note of this for whenever I am "trespassing" somewhere.
D’you know, I thought a sort of resigned acceptance would have settled in by now, but I just find myself getting angrier by the day.
Me too. But this is all just the inevitable endgame of an utterly cretinous idea, that was achieved through lies and pandering to the worst inner prejudices many people hold. Sure, the real driving force is the sect that want instability for their own gain (financial, political, both) but they weaponized stupidity. At all levels.
Problem is that now the road is about to run out. Brexit always was and always will be a ****ing ridiculous act of self harm. Well, that harm is about to become evident.
No wonder these clowns are falling over themselves to provoke the EU, provoke Starmer, provoke the factions in NI, provoke anyone to br able to deflect some of the blame.
I really hope that the rest of the cast in this farce fold their arms, sit back and say to Johnson et al:
"No chance. This is all on you. Your mess. You aren't going to be able to hide in a fridge this time."
I also pray that enough of the public will finally see this shitshow for what it is. English nationalism and exceptionalism is shown for what it is and 'we' learn a lesson. What could come after is truly scary.
It's like the beast that can't be satisfied. You won the referendum, you're heading for a no deal / clean break, you're ripping up the withdrawal agreement you negotiated and passed into law and you are still not satisfied.
Where is it going to stop?
Where is it going to stop?
Sadly we are going to find out the hard way.
It is fascinating seeing how the previously ruled out is now the we were always at war with option.
I have made a note of this for whenever I am “trespassing” somewhere.
I was more thinking that if I rob the post office but don't actually kill anyone then it is a specific and limited crime therefore perfectly acceptable.
It's actually scary thinking where this will end up. The moment that lockdown became largely untenable was just after the Barnard Castle saga when the public basically looked at the lying little weasel and thought "well if he can do it..." and everyone promptly drove themselves off to the beaches and the hills.
Now the Government have just said that it's fine to break the law - not just any law but international treaties. I mean, they've been suggesting things like that for a while (using the Navy to intercept asylum seekers) but never actually said it in so many words. Now though... Seems that anything is fair game. Don't like it? Just make your own rules up, break the law.
Not everyone in government is spineless.
I dont think technically he is a member of government. He is a civil servant working for them instead hence why he isnt a spineless halfwit selected purely for loyalty to the glorious leader.
Another government lawyer just quit
https://twitter.com/PermSecGLD/status/1303438872651718661?s=19
I'll admit I didn't think they'd do it, but looks like the government are going to push for no deal
Ripping up the WA, means EU will have to walk away
Oh well, better get filling up those no deal emergency caches!
I was more thinking that if I rob the post office but don’t actually kill anyone then it is a specific and limited crime therefore perfectly acceptable.
Yeah it could be extended to that but since I have ethical issues with robbing places I will just keep it as an excuse for those things I dont have any ethical issues about. Its gives me a variant on the "isnt it silly" comment about not being allowed to cycle or walk somewhere.
I am not sure how much difference in reality it will make though. For those who pay attention to such things the attempt to prorogue parliament was pretty much the same dubious approach to the law.
kimbers, do keep up 😉
That was announced this morning.
Interesting read in Monday's Guardian...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/07/eu-has-powers-to-punish-uk-if-it-breaches-brexit-treaty-experts-warn
I wonder how tempted Barnier and Von Der Leyen are to say...boris, you are a congenital liar with no interest in concluding a deal with the EU other than on your skewed and unreasonable terms; this is not acceptable so...goodbye.
No more pointless meetings.
You are on your own.
Bon chance.
The thing about the WA being tied to the ECJ and the "The EU is punishing us" narrative that might come is that the WTO has its own arbitration procedure "court" so we can get spanked by them if we're naughty too. The only way to not have some kind of court above you is to just be government of the whole world. Though I imagine the Vogons would take a dim view of our shenanigans.
No more pointless meetings.
You are on your own.
Bon chance.
Thereby playing into the hands of this latest gambit.
Johnson and co don't want to own this cluster, so are desperate for someone to blame this on. Hence the news this morning that there is going to be a four day debate on this issue to 'flush out Labour's position on Brexit'.
Beyond pathetic.
No more pointless meetings.
You are on your own.
Bon chance
Cue Boris and every leave voter claiming that the nasty EU wouldn't speak to us, that they had no intention of making the wonder-deal, and that therefore we are better off without the nasty EU.
Hence the news this morning that there is going to be a four day debate on this issue to ‘flush out Labour’s position on Brexit’.
An attempt to re-fight a war that's over - and will be seen as such.
Cue Boris and every leave voter claiming that the nasty EU wouldn’t speak to us, that they had no intention of making the wonder-deal, and that therefore we are better off without the nasty EU.
Easily de-bunked by reference to the facts.
