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Given the number of "liberalised" in there the German manufacturers of all sorts must be grinning from ear to ear. Just how unilaterally reducing tarifs compared with the EU rate is going to help British farming and manufacturing I don't know. The EU (with which there was previously no tarif obviously) will continue to be present and the rest of the world will also benefit from the new low tarif.
"Race to the bottom"
And a genuine thanks, Mefty, I hadn't realised the government had fixed the future tarifs, I thought they were still up in the air. I'm surprised there hasn't been more in the press and more protest from the various interest groups.
@zippykona - you are in the business of buying chocolate from the EU, if I remember correctly, aren't you? Are you saying that you've not been given any information on these tariffs by the govt, you're just finding out on this thread?
We don't import it but we do sell it. The importers have said an 18% rise which actually is a relief as the only info I could find said 40%.
However ,is that 18% plus vat? Who gets that 18%? Will they scrap vat? Surely they don't need to tax stuff twice?
The government must be rubbing their hands together if they can finally give every person in this country a bill for brexit. You wanted it , now you have to pay for it.
I did ask paul (starving children)scully (our shop mp )these questions but obviously he doesn't know as he never got back to us.
Here he is really caring...
Edit, it wasn’t the supermarkets that kept us fed,it was our independent green grocers,butchers and bakers.
Mefty ,you seem to know your stuff. What does this mean to something that currently costs us £17 kg?
Depends on the Milk content and Sugar content and where you are getting it from, other countries may be cheaper.
VAT is charged on the price of goods plus tariff - a Brexit ‘win-win’
Depends on the Milk content and Sugar content and where you are getting it from, other countries may be cheaper.
But the tariffs will still be the same, surely (unless we've signed a reduced rate deal with a country)?
Depends on the Milk content and Sugar content
Just had a quick look at zippykona’s quoted commodity code, 18069011 and it doesn’t mention milk and sugar content in the classification, just “ Chocolate and chocolate products in the form of chocolates, whether or not filled, containing alcohol”
So, Brexit talks resume today. The elephant in the room is obviously the GFA and the issue of the border in Ireland, but what will Boris be focusing on instead?
Fish
Obviously
I think we can all say that it's not exactly clear. What is EA max and ADSZ?
Thankfully importing is not my problem. I just want to know exactly how much my choices will cost?
Until I looked back on here I didn't know the tariffs had been set. Are they WTO or ones that we have made up?
The EU subdivides further I think kilo. Fair of Mefty to assume we will to, at some point.
If the UK government, would it be reasonable to ask why they are punishing us for brexit?
Don't think of it as punishment, think of it as collateral damage.
I really hope that these extra costs are highlighted as being the price of Brexit that people voted for. I expect to have "we told you so" on a permanent loop in 2021.
I just pray it doesn't crush all the intermediate businesses like zippykonas in the meantime. Napoleon couldn't defeat a nation of shop keepers, it's defeated itself.
Sacrifices are wonderful things for other people to make.
Just had a quick look at zippykona’s quoted commodity code, 18069011 and it doesn’t mention milk and sugar content in the classification, just “ Chocolate and chocolate products in the form of chocolates, whether or not filled, containing alcohol”
God it’s a mess, just had a longer look at the commodity code and there may be a liability to a sugar surcharge / duty for exports to other markets but for imports the new UK tarrif is shown as a flat 8% with no sugar / dairy surcharges.
Re further subdivision of the code 18069011, it may go down more but I can’t see anything and haven’t got a full tarriff, the description is fairly final though and the code ending 19 is “other” (this is why I stayed well clear of food and CAP importation).
EA signifies additional tariff on Agricultural content i.e milk etc, ADSZ signifies additional tariff for sugar content, and you will also see ADFM which applies to flour content.
Bottom line, international trade & agreements etc are seriously complicated 'beasts' and it isn't as simple as "we'll go WTO!"
EA signifies additional tariff on Agricultural content i.e milk etc, ADSZ signifies additional tariff for sugar content, and you will also see ADFM which applies to flour content.
Zippykona quoted the wrong tariff, he quoted the EU External Tariff not the new UK one which is a simple 8%.
EA signifies additional tariff on Agricultural content i.e milk etc, ADSZ signifies additional tariff for sugar content, and you will also see ADFM which applies to flour content.
Going seriously off tangent to import clerk matters!!
But the UKs import tariff at https://www.check-future-uk-trade-tariffs.service.gov.uk/tariff?q=18069011&n=25&p=1
Just shows a flat import tariff of 8% for the quoted commodity code and describes it’s a simplified change with no additional components. So my reading based on that, and one would hope that that has all the correct details re import duties, is for imports, it doesn’t matter about sugar or milk or where it came from, unless a trade deal usurps it. Cross post we’re in agreement!
No idea why but I've lasways thoguht of Zippykona as a Ms. :-/
Edit, no that's Konabunny.
I just want to know exactly how much my choices will cost?
I reckon
Cost of product + transport and insurance -
8% of the above for UK duty
Add all the above together to get your value for VAT and then use the current VAT rate.
Obviously an agent will charge you to place the customs entry, use their deferment account for duty etc
IANAclearanceagent!
I've always thought of educator as a dalek who retrains as a teacher.
Yeah I'm confused about the fish thing, is it being used as a scapegoat for Johnson not wanting a deal? There are so many other industries that generate far more money that will be heavily affected that never seem to be mentioned.
Its all about Britania ruling the waves
Or is it waives the rules, something like that
Yeah I’m confused about the fish thing, is it being used as a scapegoat for Johnson not wanting a deal? There are so many other industries that generate far more money that will be heavily affected that never seem to be mentioned.
It's symbolic for those (a disproportionate number of whom are happily retired and fill their days with golf and trips to garden centres) who don't actually have to worry about real world economics any more.
Fish are the new squirrels/dead cats
Relax. It looks like John Redwood has personally taken charge of all the fish
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1325712961172860928?s=20
So at what point did all this discussion take place with the president elect?
Just more lies from the FatMan.
Entertainingly this was also on the Express website:
A trade deal with the US remains one of the most important agreements for the UK but warnings leaked from Washington appear to indicate a lack of interest on that side of the Atlantic. Ahead of trade negotiations, Brexiteer and Tory MP for Wokingham, Sir John Redwood, warned the President-elect about the UK's need to become an independent nation away from the EU and dismissed US concerns over the Good Friday Agreement (GFA). Writing in his blog, Sir John insisted the UK does not wish to violate the GFA following Mr Biden's trade deal warning earlier this year.
Anyway, it's Monday, has the Express forgotten this traditionally the day for a story about The Princess Of Hearts on the front?
Anyway, it’s Monday, has the Express forgotten this traditionally the day for a story about The Princess Of Hearts on the front?
Surely as it November, it's time for "snowmagheddon is coming uk braced for worst winter in 20000 years"
I thought Monday was Madeleine McCann day
Only a few people really care about fishing rights, but for political purposes its been pushed to the forefront.
There are plenty of other industries we'd be better off discussing and protecting.
What's the stat again Jaguar Landrover makes more money in a week than the entire fishing industry? Or is Astra Zeneca makes more in two days? It's probably both.
It's a microcosm of the entire Brexit debacle.
Rejoice everybody! This is a truly great day! We not only celebrate having our rights to freedom of movement removed...
https://twitter.com/pritipatel/status/1325828317665177600?s=20
but Global Britain celebrates a trade deal with one of the worlds great economies
https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1323645223520657411?s=20
what a time to be alive!
we don't know how lucky we are. Thank you Boris, Liz and Pritti, suddenly everything seems all Ok again!
I just seen that express story and now I can sleep well as Boris himself has said there was a good chance of striking a deal with the US.(does that clown actually think he is going to pull a fast one over Biden who has got the measure of him and 50 years experience as a politician)
Well, Polly reckons Blohard is going to cave.....to a certain extent.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/10/biden-no-deal-brexit-cant-happen-boris-johnson
As she says, any deal will be 'thin'. There are several certainties with these cynical cheats, liars and traitors in government:
1. Several people, Cummings prominent amongst them (but not openly) will be busily trying to work out how much of the chaos, disruption and shortages can be blamed on the new lockdown they will put in place after Crimbo Day and before New Year's Eve. Having 'got normal Christmas done'.
2. This work will involve a lot of people, drawing a lot of money as fees, but will ultimately come down to Dom and De Pfeffel and a couple of their mates with the back of an envelope.
3. The actual economic and political wellbeing of the country will be at the bottom of the list - first priority will be 'how much can we get away with?'
4. They will underestimate all the chaos because they don't like facing the consequences of their actions.
5. Dom will also be working out how much blame can be put the way of the EU/Biden/Foreigners/Remoaners.
6. De Pfeffel will be everywhere when lockdown is postponed for three weeks at Crimbo, but go MIA as much as possible in Jan-Feb. Probably before he ****s off and leaves someone else to sort his mess out. Again.
So Just to get my head around this - first post here - be kind!
We can't request an extension to the transition period - that dead line has passed.
Boris Oven Ready plan (easiest deal in history etc.) is dead in the water.
Which leaves us with
1. Hard Brexit - Pleases a minority but causes massive havoc for everyone else as UK is not prepared for this. The mess caused by this will be so large, that Covid surely cant be blamed!
2. Boris capitulates to the EU, signs up to some sort of deal which makes us follow EU standards for food, workers rights, environment & animal welfare. This does not seem like a thin deal? And This making the UK as rule followers rather than rule makers which will make some people mad and question what is all this for if we finish here, and others thankful that no deal bullet was dodged.
Any other outcomes?
When and if Boris wonders off - and a new PM is found/elected by the Tory Party - would that prompt a GE? I know about the Fixed term act, but that can be circumvented.
When and if Boris wonders off – and a new PM is found/elected by the Tory Party – would that prompt a GE? I know about the Fixed term act, but that can be circumvented.
At least two-thirds of MPs need to pass a vote of no confidence, which won't be easy to do when the Nasty Party holds a 79 seat majority. The last successful motion of no confidence was put before the house in March 1979 by the leader of the opposition and passed paving the way for a general election shortly after.
The only other was to force an election would be for two thirds or more MPs to vote for one, again highly unlikely with a majority of 79.
We can’t request an extension to the transition period – that dead line has passed.
We could try. The EU may be amenable but they would rightly be very pissed off with all the messing about and be quite punitive. The EU has to satisfy all its members, so unlikely they would all tolerate such pissing about.
Boris Oven Ready plan (easiest deal in history etc.) is dead in the water.
It always was. It was just to get him past the next headline with no thought to what next. He was never going to honour it.
Which leaves us with
1. Hard Brexit – Pleases a minority but causes massive havoc for everyone else as UK is not prepared for this. The mess caused by this will be so large, that Covid surely cant be blamed!
They'll be desperately trying to figure how much can be blamed on covid/remainers/eu and anyone but them.
2. Boris capitulates to the EU, signs up to some sort of deal which makes us follow EU standards for food, workers rights, environment & animal welfare. This does not seem like a thin deal? And This making the UK as rule followers rather than rule makers which will make some people mad and question what is all this for if we finish here, and others thankful that no deal bullet was dodged.
They will opt for what they can get away with. They are basically trying to appease the total nationalist nutters and disaster capitalists they owe their positions to on the one hand without becoming recognised as the government that sold off the NHS and everything else. They made a deal with the devil when it was expedient to do so, and the consequences are coming. They don't care in real terms but they don't like how it is going to look.
Any other outcomes?
Between 1 and 2 you basically have no deal economic holocaust and total rule acceptance without a say. It effectively covers all the outcomes.
When and if Boris wonders off – and a new PM is found/elected by the Tory Party – would that prompt a GE? I know about the Fixed term act, but that can be circumvented.
No, but it should.
Further to the above. You have to look at our 'government' and ask yourself who in that cabinet of none of the talents would be there if it wasn't for Brexit. I.e. if something other than loyalty to a stupid project was paramount.
Would De Pfeffel be PM if it wasn't for Brexit? Not a chance.
Raab, Patel, Hancock? No ****ing way.
Sunak? Potentially, but not this early by any means.
They have been selected because, with varying motivations, they have made themselves qualified by their loyalty to something utterly stupid.
The likes of Hancock and Raab, primarily because they are thick, but also cynical and opportunist.
Patel basically because she is nasty and cynical - clever, but only in a devious sort of way.
Brexit has provided a bunch of lower league Tories with a unique opportunity to climb the pole. Why not sacrifice your credibility for a ministerial jag if you were otherwise only destined to be a junior minister?
Sunak puzzles me. He is (certainly relatively, but also generally) intelligent, economically literate and articulate. He must know Brexit is an economic disaster.
It is one of those classic Kafkaesque farces where the more intelligent culprits have more to be held to account for. The ideologues, on the other hand, at least have the excuse of some level of stupidity.
Brexit is such a stupid act that it distorts and taints all its proponents in government in this manner.
Sunak puzzles me.
Don’t be puzzled… he’s there to help some people make a lot of money out of Brexit.
Southwestrider
Your option 2 is still a very hard brexit indeed. Much harder than was mooted at the beginning. It would ameliorate some of the worst issues slightly - thats it. No freedom of movement and no membership of EU institutions etc etc
its completely unacceptable to the english nationalists that have taken over the tory party and once again - the whole exercise is the culmination of a 20+ year campaign with the intent of making the UK a low regulation ( ie no workers or environmental rights) low wage money laundering economy
the people who are driving us towards brexit will never allow it anyway - remember that they are all lying. No deal is the aim and always has been and Johnson is too weak and to beholden to them to resist
The aim always has been to turn us into a cross between the US / singapore and those tax dodging islands.
Sunak puzzles me. He is (certainly relatively, but also generally) intelligent, economically literate and articulate. He must know Brexit is an economic disaster.
I suggest you take a closer look at him.
People like him are more than prepared to sacrifice parts of the economy that don't sustain them, as long as they can enrich the part of the economy that sustains them. This is Brexit.
So Sunak is more towards 'bad person' than some of the others on the 'bad person vs idiot' axis that all government Brexit proponents must, by definition, occupy?
Feels about right to me.
As always… keep pretending Ireland isn’t really an issue…
https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1326262125136842752?s=21
Marina Hyde nails it again - starts as a US election piece but then goes onto Brexit and says it far more eloquently than I have ever managed. That the issue is not that it's a bad choice - we know that now, even a large proportion of those that thought Brexit was a good idea back then know it hasn't panned out that way. The issue is that we are unable to say that and are going to pull the trigger on our own foot and then pretend it's what we meant to do rather than admit we made a cock-up.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/10/four-seasons-total-landscaping-rudy-giuliani
Sunak puzzles me. He is (certainly relatively, but also generally) intelligent, economically literate and articulate. He must know Brexit is an economic disaster.
Brexit will be anything but a disaster for the (disaster capitalist) interests Sunak represents.
They'll be making an absolute killing through their positions they've taken already with currency speculation etc, they'll swoop in like vultures and pick up British companies for a song when the economy collapses, then asset strip them.
With the economic chaos, and the pound in freefall (ker-ching for the currency speculators), in the resulting 'bonfire of red tape' that follows they'll have their dreams realised of the UK as a tax-and-regulation-free Singapore-on-sea, just off the cost of Europe.
As a bonus they'll also have a handy sweatshop workforce once workers rights and environmental controls have been torn up. Mass unemployment will mean people have little choice
So heavily towards the 'bad' end of the scale rather than just 'stupid'.
Sunak at one extreme - capable, intelligent, knowledgeable and despite knowing that it is against the interests of the 99.99% acting against them for the 0.01% who are already richer than the rest of us could ever dream of being.
Truss at the other - thick as two short planks being used to stir a vat of mince. You could probably rejoin the EU, just tell her we hadn't, and she probably wouldn't notice.
dannyh
Full MemberSunak puzzles me. He is (certainly relatively, but also generally) intelligent, economically literate and articulate. He must know Brexit is an economic disaster.
What's puzzling? He's a good enough economist to know what should be done and a good enough Tory to do something else entirely. Really nothing very complicated going on there at all I think.
Just look at how hard he's resisted the most obvious and common-sense approaches to covid. Yes eventually he goes ahead with furlough and with borrowing and increasing the money supply, but only because they're literally the only things he can do that works and because it's absolute suicide not to. But even then it's all dragged out and talked down and generally obvious that he'd rather do anything else, if he could. (oh and of course when he eventually does exactly what he should have done weeks or months ago, and it's just copying what other governments have already done, he's a genius)
Fair enough. I guess he just looks/feels a bit different to the rest of Johnson's rabble in that he can string a sentence together coherently.
Have you heard him in interviews, rather than when working to a script? He stumbles his way through the lies and obfuscations as much as any of them. He's no where near as capable as Gove... it's just that he gets far more uninterrupted televised dispatch box and press briefing time because of his cabinet position.
Yup. Worse than most actually. When lying it definitely helps if you believe it, or failing that if you can fool yourself. Say what you like about Jeremy Hunt, he was able to passionately believe anything he wanted. Most people can't do that.
Having said that, Sunak did come out with that accidentally gloriously honest comment at the start of the pandemic that the government was "going out of its way" to help people. God, you want us to actually govern? To keep the economy alive? That's so inconvenient!
I guess 'puzzles' is the wrong word.
'Confounds' might be better.
Important news. UKIP have selected 'Peter Gammons' as their london mayoral candidate 😀
In an interesting interview with the FT's Lionel Barber on Five Live this morning, he confirmed what we all knew already about Dominic Cummings roll in Brexit. He said he interviewed the evil one during the campaign and asked him if he knew that Brexit would cause huge economic damage to the UK?
Once he had confirmed he was off the record, he replied "you know that, I know that, but the average voter doesn't"
He said that after decades covering politics he was still surprised by the cynicism of the Brexiteers. We knew Boris never believed in it. It appears Coummings didn't either. It's all just a game to them. Cummings just wanted to show everyone how clever he was. The rest of us will be left paying the price of his cleverness for decades
Don't forget the personal side... Cummings really wanted revenge on Cameron and the other Tories that saw straight through him, knew what he was, and wanted rid of him. Many involved in the Leave campaign just wanted to unseat those in power... it was nothing to do with the EU for them, and everything to do with taking back control in the UK, by destroying and reshaping the Conservative party.
EDIT: for those that have forgotten... Cameron said that Cummings was a "career psychopath", "bilious" and "dripping with poison", long before a referendum was due to happen.
It's a pity Call Me Dave's 'suave, assured PR Man act' was just that. An act. It was his pathetic insecurity that led to all this with Farage doing his age old trick of nicking the Tories' racists and only offering to give them back if his bidding was done.
It was a question that didn't need asking and should never have been asked. Now we are looking at decades of hardship for less than **** all in return. And Farage got his way, which really grinds my gears. Vile little man.
Tick. Tock.
Based on all the above comments, the only tiny shred of joy for me is the opportunity to say "you wanted this" to any Leave voter. It's not really worth the complete catastrophe that this shaping up to be but I'm taking what positives I can, just as all the Leavers told me to.
Have to wonder what next week brings with Cummings having walked/been kicked?
Have to wonder what next week brings with Cummings having walked/been kicked?
EU Council leaders have suggested they need a deal on the table by this Thursday if it is to be ratified before the end of the year. Boris' "oven-ready deal" (which is more realistically a Fray Bentos tinned pie that's past its sell-by date) with be duly presented having thrown the fishermen under the bus.
Let’s hope the nicotine-stained man-frog is right
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/1327303343245561856?s=21
Part of me is wondering if this just a scam. That Cummings is just working from home for a few weeks.
The "oven ready deal" was the withdrawal agreement not a future trade deal
the Johnson cabal have not been negotiating seriously right from day one. the aim has been to blame the EU for no deal and a hard border in Ireland, not to get a deal
NO deal has always been the intention
Let’s hope the nicotine-stained man-frog is right
But in reality a deal they'll sign (to get it over the line) is the worse possible deal - BINO.
It's like leaving you wife because she does your head in, but you still had all the 'benefits' plus could go out cycling whenever you wanted. And ending up back in the spare room paying all the bills, getting zilch and a max of an hour a week on the turbo.
BINO
This is not happening. The liars like Farage might portray the likely* minimum possible deal we’re heading for as “BINO”… don’t let him get away with that framing… it is not going to be that. They want people to believe that the failings of Brexit are because of the flavour of deal we agree with the EU, rather than because any new relationship with the EU will make things harder than staying in the SM & CU.
[ I’m with TJ in thinking that no deal is still more likely, and has been since May was sidelined ]
It was Theresa May who committed us to come out of the Single Market and the Customs Union. It was always going to a disaster from that point on.
I always believed that No Deal was the only thing the headbangers would settle for. I'm probably being over-optimistic in thinking that a Biden victory and the repercussions might actually allow some reality to intrude on the Brexit fantasy. And with a couple of the architects of this lunacy on their way, maybe some calmer voices will prevail
Any deal signed now will be terrible, but anything is better than No Deal, which will be utterly catstrophic
Keeping your eyes on the Brexit press feeds is always worthwhile, and the hardliners are getting jumpy indeed
Important news. UKIP have selected ‘Peter Gammons’ as their london mayoral candidate 😀
Who's his running mate, Pete Racist ?
dannyh
Full MemberFurther to the above. You have to look at our ‘government’ and ask yourself who in that cabinet of none of the talents would be there if it wasn’t for Brexit. I.e. if something other than loyalty to a stupid project was paramount.
Forget about cabinet, Dominic Raab became effective PM while Johnson was in hospital, and the only thing, literally the only one thing that qualified him to do it, was being such an enthusiastic brexit fantasist/liar. He went from "average ineffectual backbencher" to "running the country" and it's not like there's any doubt why because there's literally nothing else in his career to explain it.
there’s literally nothing else in his career to explain it.
You mean looking menacingly at anyone who either questions the sense of Brexit or asks him a question that confuses him (basically all the time) with a sheen of sweat and a pulsing vein in the forehead isn't a qualification?
Raab is as thick as pig shit. He likes to try to play the 'Young Hannibal Lecter' look, but he ends up looking like what he is. An ineffectual, thick bully.
Interesting perfect storm on the horizon - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54908129
Also interesting is the next to last paragraph, from which:
Two months ago, the former Transport Secretary Chris Grayling was hired to advise the port's parent company Hutchison Ports Europe, which is based in London. The register of MP's financial interests shows he's being paid £100,000 for "around seven hours" of work per week.
It's what we voted for. Stop moaning and get behind it, that's all we need.
whitestone - the Felixstowe problem has been building for at least 18months.
In mid-2019 Peel Ports who own the Port of Liverpool were telling shippers about the delays and the situation has only worsened since then.
I have little doubt that grayling will resolve the problem...
Anyone else heard that another extension might be on the cards??
£100K a week for 7 hrs work...... It's hopeless.
@frankconway - yeah, looks like it's the lorry slot booking system that's struggling to cope. These massive ships can't afford to be in port for any longer than necessary. This: "the large number of empty containers and a large amount of unusually long-stay containers held at the port" seems strange. I know there'll be some slack in the system but it can't be in anyone's interest to have empty or long-stay containers messing things up.
Poopscoop
Full Member
Anyone else heard that another extension might be on the cards??
We should have paused everything during the pandemic but this bunch of ****s are too arrogant for that.
Hoping that Cummings departure and Biden's appointment mean we will be forced to make a deal.
Anyone else heard that another extension might be on the cards??
Wouldn't surprise me.
Maybe the constant knocking on the door of No10 by (very) concerned businesses is finally being heard.
No doubt it will be dressed up as "There's a deal in the offing so we've agreed an extension to finalise it." The reality is that there'll be more can kicking.
There cannot be an extension and the EU wouldn't grant one even if they could - Nor will Johnsons cabal ask for one
You have to understand - No deal has been the aim the whole time.
£100K a week for 7 hrs work…… It’s hopeless.
£100k per annum for 7 hours work per week, I suspect. Although £10/hr would be too much to pay that idiot.
I think EU were happy to pause proceedings because of covid
6 months ago before the deadline to ask for an extension. why would the EU grant one? Whats in it for them? Its clear that Johnson cabal have no interest in a deal and right from the word go have set out demands that the EU cannot grant and made them red lines.