MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Well, if that's ok, if you disagree with the roads around where you stay being closed for a few hours,
What . the . **** . you talking about ?
We're talking about Fascists. Not about shutting a ****ing road.
We're talking about an ideology based on hating people.
How they gain influence whether it's democratically, or undemocratically, makes absolutely no difference to me. I don't care if three quarters of the population votes Fascist, I will [u]never[/u] accept their right to power. I will [u]always[/u] oppose them. And as their influence grows, my intolerance to them will increase.
The simple truth is let him speak - to deny him and others is simply undemocratic.
I would beg to differ. You are talking about a party that by its very own nature would deny us all Democracy. Same for the Communists.
A massive on goal by the intelligensia
I love this, generally spouted by right wingers who are afraid of intelligent people.
No, we're talking about free speech in a democratic state. According to you, because you disagree with Griffin it's ok to assault him. that means what you're saying is that it's ok to break the law just because you disagree with something. in which case, carpet tack boy in perthshire was right to break the law because he disagreed with the etape.
fundamentally the same thing - it's about freedom of expression. it's either right or wrong. if it's right it's right in both cases, if it's wrong in both.
I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it?
Attributed to Voltaire, and IMHO, one of the cornerstones of democratic thought
How they gain influence whether it's democratically, or undemocratically, makes absolutely no difference to me
The will of the people makes no difference to me - IMHO a cornerstone of fascist philosophy
So you'd be happy to defend to the death his right to say all those things? Despite the fact that if he ever got to power he'd happily ignore those rights?
You'll have died to further the cause of fascism...You OK with that?
In this instance the hysterical and irrational far left have given the BNP a propaganda coup.
The winning candidates of a lawful political party in a democratic election (rightly or wrongly thats the truth of the matter) hold a civilised press conference which is then disrupted by left wing thugs denying free speech.
Who are the fascists here? Where is the hate on show?
Anyone watching the news will clearly have seen and I am sure made their unbiased assessment of the proceedings
The million odd people who voted for the BNP are only going to be further galvanised by this.
It's a shame that the political parties so upset by the BNP's success didn't do something before the election.
I live in Yorkshire and we didn't get a single visit by a candidate or leaflet through the door from any party. It's not surprising voters stayed at home and the BNP benefited.
[b]The wheels on the bus go
round and round
round and round
round and round
The wheels on the bus go
round and round
All day long
The horn on the bus goes
beep, beep, beep
beep, beep, beep
beep, beep, beep
The horn on the bus goes
beep, beep, beep
All day long
The wipers on the bus go
swish, swish, swish
swish, swish, swish
swish, swish, swish
The wipers on the bus go
swish, swish, swish
All day long
The people on the bus go
chatter, chatter, chatter
chatter, chatter, chatter
chatter, chatter, chatter
The people on the bus go
chatter, chatter, chatter
All day long
The baby on the bus goes
wah, wah, wah
wah, wah, wah
wah, wah, wah
The baby on the bus goes
wah, wah, wah
All day long
The bell on the bus goes
ding, ding, ding
ding, ding, ding
ding, ding, ding
The bell on the bus goes
ding, ding, ding
All day long
The wheels on the bus go
round and round
round and round
round and round
The wheels on the bus go
round and round
All day long
All day long [/b]
It has nothing at all to do with 'disagreeing' with Fascists. It's about not tolerating Fascism. Where's the bit where I say that people which I disagree with I don't tolerate ? ffs.
It seems like almost everyday I'm here saying that muslims, homosexuals, or gypsies should be tolerated. I am not muslim, homosexual or gypsy, so I obviously disagree with them.
But I do not tolerate an ideology which is based on hating people. And I never will.
Paedophiles are not tolerated [u]not[/u] because people disagree with them, but because their behaviour is simply not tolerable. Plenty of other people have strange sexual preferences, but despite the fact that most people might disagree with them, they are not thrown into prison.
It's not about 'disagreeing' it's about not tolerating.
.
Voltaire never said that btw.
We went to war supposedly to "liberate" undemocratic countries and help them install democratic systems, yet when our own democracy turns up results that are not popular it is OK to abandon these democratic principles??
Like it or not (and to be clear i don't) nearly 1 million people voted for the BNP. If we had a true proportional representation system instead of the regional one, they would have won 4 seats instead of 2.
The best way to oppose them, IMO, is to engage them in debate to expose their policies and of course, ultimately, to vote for another party in the elections.
The people today throwing eggs and then being interviewed on R4 saying things like "we support free speech just not for facists" and "we are acting on behalf of the majority of the people" (when in fact they have less of a mandate to act on behalf of the people than the BNP) only served to provide Griffin with the opportunity to score some easy points by shifting the debate IMO.
Well I never, Learn something new everyday:
From Wiki...
Evelyn Beatrice Hall, (1868 - 19??), who wrote under the pseudonym S.G. Tallentyre, was a writer best known for her biography of Voltaire. She completed her biography of Voltaire The Friends of Voltaire in 1906. She wrote the phrase, which is often misattributed to Voltaire, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," as an illustration of Voltaire's beliefs.[1]
nickc - iirc there wasn't a great deal in the way of freedom and democracy during Voltaire's life. So not much chance of him having his bluff called had he said it.
Aye, true enough.
Griffen has the right to free speech perhaps - but that equally applies to those who want to drown his speech with more noise. It works both ways. If he doesn't want to be drowned out he gives his speech in a private place. In public it is perfectly permissible to shout him down.
They should be debating with him (or even standing against him). But, by their actions and not allowing a legitimatley elected politician to speak it is only going to reinforce his messaage to his supporters that they are not listened to and increase his support.
Let him speak and shoot himself in the foot
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
Then they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
I did not protest;
I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Martin Niemöller
Let him speak and shoot himself in the foot
Why would he shoot himself in the foot ffs ? Surely only a really stupid person would shoot themselves in the foot ?
Have a look at this video about 40 seconds in. Nick Griffin makes it very clear indeed that he isn't stupid. Whilst he might be prepared tell the Ku Klux Klan what he [i]really[/i] thinks, he makes absolutely clear to them that he will not be telling the British people. That he says, will have to wait until the BNP quote : "controls the British broadcasting media".
http://www.truveo.com/bnp-linked-to-kkk/id/2305843009249666042
.
a legitimatley elected politician
I think that video proves otherwise.
.
Fascism is [i]always[/i] based on lies. You cannot argue against lies. As Griffin so eloquently explains in his speech to the Ku Klux Klan.
Furthermore, Fascism absolutely thrives on not being taken as a serious threat. In 1919 Mussolini barely managed to get 2% of the votes in the Italian elections. In 1921 with just 35 MPs, Mussolini seized power.
How ? Because no one considered him to be a threat.
It was very similar for Adolf Hitler. Hitler never received a majority before taking power. So how did he do it ? Again, he was dismissed as an idiot who would shoot himself in the foot once he was given the responsibility of power.
A year or two back on this forum someone told me that the BNP were of no threat, and if they were ignored they would simply go away. They are now in the European Parliament, wake up. Learn from history. The BNP will be defeated, but only by accepting the challenge, not by ignoring it. That's how the NF were defeated in the 1970s.
The BNP will be defeated, but only by accepting the challenge, not by ignoring it. That's how the NF were defeated in the 1970s.
I agree, however, I doubt seriously that people are politicised in the way that they were in the 70's. I travelled to both of the big RAR events in London in the 70's. I was 13/14 at the time, the group of people that I travelled with were of similar age. I just can't see kids today being that motivated to do something similar. My own kids have been brought up to despise racism but there's no way I could see them wanting to travel up to London to protest, it's a whole different culture now.
Ernie - don't think most were suggesting ignoring or dismissing the BNP as the Nazis were dismissed in the 30s. Most of the comments seem to advocate allowing them to speak openly and then challenging them by discrediting their arguments.
The earlier post about tolerating pedophilia is spurious as pedophilia is illegal, being a member of or supporting the BNP is not.
We have the right to free speach and if that means talking loudly whilst someone else talks thats fine by me Throwing eggs is a bit naughty though, someone could get hurt.
Throwing eggs at him will only help his cause.
He will now on play the victim card, and get more people to vote for him under the:
Look at me I am for the people of britain and look I am a victim like you people of britain.
He must have freedom of speech(within the boundaries of the law) whether or not you agree with him. If we start refusing people this right, we are not a democracy anymore, just another fascist state.
Then you obvioulsy don't have to agree with his idea
juan - Member
Throwing eggs at him will only help his cause.
He will now on play the victim card, and get more people to vote for him under the:
Look at me I am for the people of britain and look I am a victim like you people of britain.He must have freedom of speech(within the boundaries of the law) whether or not you agree with him. If we start refusing people this right, we are not a democracy anymore, just another fascist state.
Then you obvioulsy don't have to agree with his idea
Parfait, mon vieux!
Well saddly CFH there is quite an history of far right wing party down here 🙁
Funny old topic this...I initially laughed out loud at the egg barrage...but in hindsight what right do any of us have to dismiss the views of a million plus ( including those agreeing with his views but couldnt be arsed to vote) The reasons the likes of the BNP will continue to prosper are linked to a lot of people believing there is a disparity between the way this country treats it's citizens who work hard ...contributed all their lives etc and the way those who haven't, who are perceived to be pandered too
There is a strong sense of this amongst the older generations...some of whom physically fought facism...this is based on talking in depth most days about issues affecting the day to day lives of people
oh and the fact that these votes followed a month of revelations that MPs of all parties think they can screw the tax payers for every penny probably didnt help!
If we applied the egg throwing (green slime) and shouting down (old bloke at party conference) to New Labour what would happen? Oh wait i think i know the answer to that.
I think everyone should turn their back on the BNP
- ala Mighty Bhoosh
[url=
- Mighty Boosh Festival - Naboo turns his back on you[/url]
Throwing eggs at him will only help his cause.
He will now on play the victim card, and get more people to vote for him under the:
Look at me I am for the people of britain and look I am a victim like you people of britain.He must have freedom of speech(within the boundaries of the law) whether or not you agree with him. If we start refusing people this right, we are not a democracy anymore, just another fascist state.
Then you obvioulsy don't have to agree with his idea
exactly
violonce is the last resort of the incompetent. resorting to it implies you've already lost the arguemnt, weakening your position and strengthening theirs. that's what proto-fascists like ernie/gus just don't seem to realise.
are we so morally poor that we rn in fear from them?
nickc - MemberSo you'd be happy to defend to the death his right to say all those things?
i believe in free speech - yes. I take it you don't and think that democracy and the law of the land only apply when they fit your moral code?
I agree entirely BigButSlimmerBloke.
Though don't forget as someone once said "It's the right of every englishman to have the freedom to throw a dead cat at a politician"
I don't know the source, but don't think it was Voltair 🙂
Yes I believe in democracy. The BNP on the other hand don't, they are a party based on lies, and deception. I will oppose their manipulation of the democratic process to further their disgusting agenda.
[i]i believe in free speech - yes I take it you don't[/i]
very good, and free speech? or is free speech ok providing you agree with the contents of the speech.
and do you really believe that giving the bnp more publicity than they could normally afford helps or hinders them?
and do you also believe that giving them the mouthpiece to spout on about the lawlessness of society ("look, our leader, a democratically elected MEP, was attacked for doing nothing more than giving a speech to the party faithful") is a good thing?
[i]Yes I believe in democracy.[/i]
Sorry, inserted wrong quote there - forgot you'd decided to answer a completely different question
[b]
[/b]I believe in justice
I believe in vengeance
I believe in getting the bastard, getting the bastard, getting the bastard
For a bonus point: Song title and band?
new model army - cant remember the title
If the BNP ever did get into a position of real power in this country it would be (initially at least) through the ballot box.
Those who already vote BNP and those who may in future are not going to be deterred from doing so by organisations like the UAF - the fact that a few upper middle class students fancy a spot of "not tolerating" the BNP before they get nice jobs in banking doesn't really help the millions of ordinary working people losing their livelihoods and putting up with poor schools, health care, transport and local services every day - address that and the BNP wouldn't have a chance, insult people's democratic opinions whiel ignoring their problems and the BNP will be well on their way to British parliamentary success.
I admire ernie's zeal in this, and his experience of it in practice. Can't at all pretend to have any experience either of this politics or of activist politics of any sort.
My difficulty with shutting down Griffin like that is that we have these asshats being elected because, supposedly, a load of unhappy people don't want to vote for anyone else who isn't so ghastly. If you chuck eggs at the guy they've just elected then do you not run the risk of strengthening their support and reinforcing the BNP's narrative that they are against the system and for the people, that there is a conspiracy of some sort against them etc etc.
Is the best way of dealing with their popularity really to start a fight with them because they are not legitimate? I can't really empathise with the people who vote for these chaps, but I personally would feel quite strongly if, by some miracle, the bloke I had voted for won a free and fair election and was immediately attacked in the street by people who objected to his politics.
It may be that that's the only way to deal with them. But it does rather seem that once you've surrendered the legitimacy of free elctions in favour of deciding power through street fighting you do then need to win the fight. 😕
All this talk about chucking eggs/bricks.
Did someone say Jehovah?????
"putting up with poor schools, health care, transport and local services every day "
compared to where?
Much of our perception comes from the meedja - and much of the meedja looks at the US SuperRich / TV.
So yes, all of our schools aren't Beverley Hills 90210
and ER (so I'm told by people in the US) is a very cleaned up version of what actually happens in the public hospitals in the US.
At least Casualty is (once again reportedly by friends who work in A&E) a bit closer to what happens
and yes we privatised our public transport which means subsidising it is now out of the question - so you can't have cheap and very efficient.
Rudeboy
New Model Army - Vegence
Had to 😆 at the footage of this on the news
One bunch of hate filled idiots attacking another bunch of hate filled idiots 🙄
I was a member of the ANL and AFA, until I came to the conclusion that reasoned argument and the democratic process is how to deal with ****s like the BNP. It disheartened me to see so many people prepared to stop others rights to free speech while refusing to become involved by either voting (if enough joe public turned out to vote the BNP wouldn't have got a look in) or by intelligently campaining against them and challenging them robustly to expose their lies.
We have to maintain the moral high ground and work within the confines of law, otherwise we are just the same scum that we are trying to oppose!
if enough joe public turned out to vote the BNP wouldn't have got a look in
Really? Or would they have got proportionally the same amount of votes?
We have to maintain the moral high ground and work within the confines of law, otherwise we are just the same scum that we are trying to oppose!
100% right on that one, even if it may seem desperately unfair.
enough joe public turned out to vote the BNP wouldn't have got a look in
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
First they came for the Socialist
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
First they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
First they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
Witness the Fitness - Roots manuva
'Yeah, we'll fight for a democracy and if you don't like it, you can shut the fk up' </irony>.
It seems pretty clear cut to me - whatever you believe or stand for, you can't remove the rights of people voicing their opinions. However, when these opinions insite hatred, then surely this must be an issue for the police?
Other than the racist line from the BNP what other policies do they have? My biggest concern is that Joe Public is dumb enough to vote in a party that has only one item on their agenda and that education, health, jobs and the economy seem furthest from his mind. That scares me as much as some Neo facist sans skinhead
For the record, I hate racism with a passion which is why I didn't vote BNP or UKIP. This is the way to get the BNP out no?
Other than the racist line from the BNP what other policies do they have?
So a utopian socialist nation in which the workers own and share in the profits of industry, sheltering behind a bristling arsenal of weaponry and trade and customs barriers, self-sufficient both in tasty home-produced organic food and high-tech manufacturing, with clean air and peaceful countryside full of thatched cottages, where buses and trains run on time and petrol is cheap, where the criminal fears the law and bad men are flogged, being gradually cleansed of non-indigenous races by an enlightened policy of finding more suitable homes for them in their sorts of places. They do make it sound rather nice...
[i]and do you really believe that giving the bnp more publicity than they could normally afford helps or hinders them?[/i]
I honestly don't know. I don't really care, if the BNP are driven from our society via the ballot box, or by argument, or by having eggs thrown at them, i don't care, as long as they're gone.
Still couldn't care less about whether Nick Griffin feels like his rights have been violated though.
I honestly don't know. I don't really care, if the BNP are driven from our society via the ballot box, or by argument, or by having eggs thrown at them, i don't care, as long as they're gone.
Could quite easily read
I honestly don't know. I don't really care, if the blacks are driven from our society via the ballot box, or by argument, or by having eggs thrown at them, i don't care, as long as they're gone.
Bollocks, BB. Nowhere near the same. Rubbish comparison.
You're starting to sound like an apologist for the Nazi scum, tbh.
Bollocks, BB. Nowhere near the same. Rubbish comparison.You're starting to sound like an apologist for the Nazi scum, tbh.
Do you ever get tired of being a complete roaster?
So is it just me (on STW) who is actually prepared to deny Fascists power and influence by whichever way the situation requires (such as throwing an egg at the fat mate of the KKK) ?
All these fine words about : [i]"I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it?"[/i] And yet so few are [i]actually[/i] prepared to 'defend to the death'. It appears that Voltaire would get few recruits from STW for this 'defending to the death' stuff.
Maybe I too, can make up quotes which I can attribute to Voltaire :
I may not be black but I will defend to the death your right to be black.
I may not be muslim but I will defend to the death your right to be muslim.
I may not be homosexual but I will defend to the death your right to be homosexual.
And all so soon after the Anniversary of D-Day 😐
.
And what's this 'they got a million votes' ? ........ what the **** has that got to do with it ?
"Oh yeah, I used to throw eggs at Nick Griffin every time I saw him, but then the BNP got a million votes so I stopped". So what are you going to do if the BNP gets 3 million votes - shake Nick Griffin's hand every time you see him ? ffs.
In that case I better get my finger out and [i]really[/i] start to oppose the BNP before they get any MPs in Westminster. Because presumably, once the Fascists have got a 100 or 200 MPs it will be completely immoral to oppose them.
And by the time they are in a position to pass laws and arrest people in a perfectly legal manner, I will no doubt be expected to enthusiastically attend and cheer at their Fascist rallies. ffs.
I am prepared to tolerate Fascists to an extent (I don't want the BNP banned), as long as they have absolutely no power and influence. At the risk of repeating myself - as their influence grows, my intolerance towards them will increase. I will never accept living under Fascism because 'it was all done in a legal manner'.
Mind you, since the possibility of me 'living under Fascism' are somewhat restricted by the fact that I would probably be shot** it's all rather academic 😕
** I have a first cousin who's name was released by the Fascist military junta during the Argentine 'Dirty War' as "wanted" due to his left-wing views. This was in effect (as everyone knew) a death sentence. Luckily he was able to flee to Brazil and escaped with his life. I have another first cousin who with her husband, was arrested and tortured for 'living in a hippy commune'. But as neither were guilty of anything other than being 'hippies', they were eventually released and allowed to leave the country. All this despite the fact that I had an uncle who was a colonel in the Argentine calvary. Although he probably did stop my aunt (his twin sister) who doesn't know how to keep her big mouth shut, from being arrested. And btw, many years ago, a year or two before the Falklands War, I once asked an active member of the NF who I had got to know quite well, which country he admired most in the world. After giving it some thought (and he wasn't aware of my connections) he answered "Argentina".
ernie_lynch - MemberSo is it just me (on STW) who is actually prepared to deny Fascists power
No you're not alone. BNP are Nazis scum in this modern day and age.
As far as I'm concerned anyone who discriminates colour, sex, race or sexuality needs to grow up or have an egg...
We're all the same. But it shows how old fashion and primative people are holding up modernisation of the planet.
You're probably alone in being one of the few idiots who will support fascism by fighting against free speech and democracy. Good on you, the BNP are a minority party with virtually no power or influence, but as long as there are few clowns like you prepared to help them out by feeding them the oxygen of publicity and allowing them to point at you as an example of the lawlessness of today's society, I'm sure they'll grow.
Shoot you? You'll be a Hero of the Reich
feeding them the oxygen of publicity
Can you not be flayed alive and rolled in salt for openly quoting the Harlot of Babylon ?
So is it just me (on STW) who is actually prepared to deny Fascists power and influence by whichever way the situation requires (such as throwing an egg at the fat mate of the KKK) ?
No I did say:
I would beg to differ. You are talking about a party that by its very own nature would deny us all Democracy. Same for the Communists.
Perhaps not as forthright, but I want to see the likes of the BNP swept out of existence.
When you take into context that the vote was for European Parliament seats, then if people wanted to protest vote why vote for the BNP instead of UKIP?
No excuse for it.
Assuming for a moment that everyone here definitely does oppose fascism, how sure are you that the egg/brick/whatever-throwing strategy is the best one? Can it be expected reliably to separate these people from their support base or reduce the size of that base? Does it encourage those who oppose them?
They may be (are) ghastly, but I don't much care for pink-faced tory yahoos either. I am fairly sure that you don't stop people voting tory by throwing things at Dave Cameron. That isn't to say that the BNP and the tories are the same, I'm happy to accept that the BNP may [i]justify[/i] different methods in dealing with them. What I'm less clear about is whether it's going to work.
Rudeboy (or was it you?) mentioned earlier doing stuff in Millwall involving getting the vote out and preventingBNP intimidation of potential anti-BNP voters. NS last month reckoned the BNP does community work in the northern towns, and has activists traipsing around the oubs talking rubbish about immigration and handing out party cards. I suspect they make some incredibly strenuous efforts to get their vote out. And they tell lies and their manifesto is the most astoundingly childish garbage. All of this sort of stuff, surely, can be legitimately and vigorously countered without giving up the basic tenets of how we do government and politics. They got a lot of voters out in certain places this time around, while the main parties (especially Labour) failed horribly. That can be reversed. Seriously taking them on and winning in the problem seats ought to be somethiong that the mainstream parties can really work at. No-one can read their manifesto in earnest and think "I'd like these guys running the economy, they know their stuff".
I may be wrong/misremembering (my leafy ward is not a serious hotbed of fascist activity!) but I'm not sure we saw enough constructive, idea-based fighting of them. None of the anti-BNP rhetoric actually engaged with the sheer stupidity of their platform, it just recoiled from them in horror and derided them as racist clowns or people who couldn't tell a polish spitifre pilot from a british one in a black and white photo. Which is fine, but it doesn't do anything to convince someone who is a little bit racist sometimes and is never going to vote labour again because "they are all the same" not to vote for them. It just alienates him from the guys who are pouring scorn on the guy he met in the pub and thinks uis alright and is standing for councillor.
We come at this from rather different backgrounds. I'm too young to remember the National Front being a serious business, and am wet enought to suspect that if you've beaten the fascists but wrecked democratic legitimacy in the process that's a pyhrric victory. My starting point therefore is that the best thing to do with them is to stop them getting elected and to hold them rigorously to account in the unfortunate situation that they are, rather than treating their election as though it confers no legitimacy on our terms or demonstrates that their voters are idiots and dupes.
But I don't know, and this is a hard one to do on the forum. Stoner's been trying to get you to come out for a jar I think. If you've time I'd be genuinely keen to go over this stuff with you next week. You have a much better perspective on a troubling issue than I do and I've a lot to learn.
Best
Jon
#
BigButSlimmerBloke - MemberYou're probably alone in being one of the few idiots who will support fascism by fighting against free speech and democracy. Good on you, the BNP are a minority party with virtually no power or influence, but as long as there are few clowns like you prepared to help them out by feeding them the oxygen of publicity and allowing them to point at you as an example of the lawlessness of today's society, I'm sure they'll grow.
Shoot you? You'll be a Hero of the Reich
Posted 13 minutes ago # Report-Post
You need to back that up with some sort of proof.
Historical evidence would suggest the complete opposite.
Probably one of the best examples of this was Battle of Cable Street.
Here in 1936, anti-fascists (including many from the Jewish community) denied Oswald Mosley and his British Union of Fascists their 'democratic right' to march through the streets of the East End of London.
The Battle of Cable Street achieved staggering levels of publicity. Including of course, for the British Union of Fascists. Indeed more than 70 years later, people still talk about the Battle of Cable Street.
The Battle of Cable Street is generally considered to have been the one of the significant factors in the political decline of the British Union of Fascists.
Whilst I admire your determination to combat the BNP, it leaves me uncomfortable that you act as judge, jury and excecutioner in deciding who is "acceptable" to be in power, particularly as you do so without any sort of a mandate to act on "behalf of the people".
In your post above if you exchange the word "facist" for "infidel" it suddenly reads very differently IMO.
If all groups choose to operate by your principles it would lead to a very unstable situation.
the history lesson was interesting, but this is the 21st century, we have television now, and elections are fought between marketing groups in our living rooms. less about politics than image. that's why they have advertising budgets and spin doctors.
bring your other brain cell into play, and ask yourself what exactly happened when those eggs were thrown at griffin
tv showed scenes of violence against a democratically elected member of a parliament. i know you don't believe in democracy and that no-one should get into any position of power without your say so, but that's not the way the world is.
anyway - that's news, said member gets a few seconds on prime time tv, which he can use to advantage- like i said, illustrating the state of lawlessness we have fallen into
nearly a million people voted for bnp, fair guess there's some who might have, but couldn't bring themselves to. these people might be concerned about those areas the bnp like to target, eg crime, so this might just push them into thinking about it next time round.
too difficult for you work out for yourself?
Or some will say the worst MP's have been egged out of the limelight and show the majority of what ppl think of political parties elected by hatred.
I don't agree with violence to any political or person on the street.
I personally would welcome a peaceful protest march as any other pressure group has carried out.
Whichever-the BNP and it's voters are Nazis. You could have protest voted for lots of other good causes like the Green Party but know you chose a party modelled on Hitler.
Be proud of yourself-History will judge you.
In a nutshell, Zaskar has managed to show why the far left are playing into the BNP's hands.
Straight away you've alienated 1 million+ people; then the other 1 million + will jump on the bandwagon because a democratically elected party are getting shouted down by communists (because that's what you're viewed as)
If the commies came up with realistic aims, we wouldn't be here?
Maybe I too, can make up quotes which I can attribute to Voltaire :I may not be black but I will defend to the death your right to be black.
I may not be muslim but I will defend to the death your right to be muslim.
I may not be homosexual but I will defend to the death your right to be homosexual.
Could read
I may not be racist but I will defend to the death your right to be racist.
Cuckoo hit the spot
Whilst I admire your determination to combat the BNP, it leaves me uncomfortable that you act as judge, jury and excecutioner in deciding who is "acceptable" to be in power, particularly as you do so without any sort of a mandate to act on "behalf of the people".
I'm not pro-BNP but scenes on the TV of one hate filled venemous mob attacking another hate filled venemous mob just smacks of hypocrisy.
The BNP want to remove minority groups from the UK
Anti-BNP protesters want to remove a minority group, the BNP, from the UK.
So the BNP hate foreign nationals and the anti-BNP mob hate the BNP.
Someone please explain how hating any section of society, regardless of creed, colour, race, political viewpoint etc, is acceptable?
Please explain that?
I work in the dirty world of PR and would venture that Griffin would be rightly pleased with his day's work:
Legally elected Euro MP, makes speech, attacked by violent protestors and denied his right to speak to his supporters. Victimised he is in a position that will galvanise his supporters, secure waiverers and divide his opponents.
You only need to read this thread to see how people with the same goal are at each others throats over the incident, rather than marshalling their ranks to oppose the BNP in a rational, legal and democratic manner.
Crude but effective tactics.
who is "acceptable" to be in power
Whoa........ just a minute. Let's get this very very clear.
Are you [i]actually[/i] saying that [u]you[/u] would never decide that a party was "unacceptable" to be in power, no matter how Fascist or Racist it was ?
Are you [i]actually[/i] saying that [u]you[/u] would "accept" a party in power even though it policies were racist and Nazi ?
Are you [i]actually[/i] saying that no party can be too extreme to be in power for [u]you[/u].
Are you [i]actually[/i] saying that if a government was to implement policies such as, the withdrawal of all benefits from black and asian people, removed their right to vote, forced unemployed black and asian people into labour gangs, denied health care and university places to black and asian people, made homosexuality illegal and introduced severe and heavy prison sentences for those who were caught, banned all trade unions except for one union under the strict control of a government minister, re-introduced hanging including for those guilty of manslaughter, made it compulsory for all government employees to be members of the governing party, are you [i]actually[/i] saying, that you wouldn't support any attempt to overthrow the government because maybe, it might have 6 more MPs than the next largest party in parliament ?
Are you [i]actually[/i] saying that ?
Because I am perfectly happy to admit that I, that is "ME", would decide that the government was "unacceptable" and everything possible should be done to remove it from power.
BTW, in my experience and as a result of many conversations over many years with NF and BNP supporters, all those policies which I have suggested, would receive their full support.
Whoa........ just a minute. Let's get this very very clear.Are you actually saying that you would never decide that a party was "unacceptable" to be in power, no matter how Fascist or Racist it was ?
Are you actually saying that you would "accept" a party in power even though it policies were racist and Nazi ?
Are you actually saying that no party can be too extreme to be in power for you.
I think communism is the answer you're looking for.
one party that conforms to your idealogy and no one is allowed to have any other political viewpoint
BigButSlimmerBloke - I attempted to ignore your childish drivel and have a serious conversation with you.
But I was clearly wasting my time.
I think communism is the answer you're looking for.
Actually the answer I was looking for was a 'yes' or 'no' answer.
I suspect that I won't be getting it.
By the same token Ernie/Rudeboy - white "working class" people have been disenfranchised from the political process. Is it correct that the Union Jack (flag of our nation) is not allowed to fly, St Georges day is disregarded as a "racist festival" as is Christmas day etc..
Actually the answer I was looking for was a 'yes' or 'no' answer.
I suspect that I won't be getting it.
You're demanding that people conform to your expectations regarding political stances and views.
There is not ye or no in politics, just a lot of "maybes"
Is it correct that the Union Jack (flag of our nation) is not allowed to fly, St Georges day is disregarded as a "racist festival" as is Christmas day etc..
What utter bollocks. Do you really believe everything you read in the Sun/Daily Mail? Jesus.
On a lighter note - do the BNP really want to do this?
We will ensure that our manufactured goods are, wherever possible, produced in British factories, employing British workers. When this is done, unemployment in this country will be brought to an end, and secure, well-paid employment will flourish, at last getting our people back to work and ending the waste and injustice of having more than 4 million people in a hidden army of the unemployed concealed by Labour’s statistical fiddles. We further believe that British industry, commerce, land and other economic and natural assets belong in the final analysis to the British nation and people. To that end we will restore our economy and land to British ownership.
They are going to get rid of unemployment and renationalise everything. Commies!
Lanesra - is the Union Jack really banned? These pictures could be used as evidence then.
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By the same token Ernie/Rudeboy - white "working class" people have been disenfranchised from the political process. Is it correct that the Union Jack (flag of our nation) is not allowed to fly, St Georges day is disregarded as a "racist festival" as is Christmas day etc..
Indeed.
I'm sure someone posted on here around xmas stating that their HR department has asked them not to send around emails about xmas parties as it would offend employees that did not celebrate xmas.
I'm sure someone posted on here around xmas stating that their HR department has asked them not to send around emails about xmas parties as it would offend employees that did not celebrate xmas.
But who is actually doing this? It's probably paranoid people who have read the Daily Mail too much and are scared of being sued. No-one in the real world gives a shit about nonsense like that.
why is that wrong, under Nu Labour we have gone to a manufacturing country to importing everything.
When they have power, when they are actively or passively subverting democracy, then I will fight them with violence. Until then the only way legitimate way to impose my ideas on others is through the ballot box.
But who is actually doing this? It's probably paranoid people who have read the Daily Mail too much and are scared of being sued. No-one in the real world gives a shit about nonsense like that.
you do, you massive prick
Is it correct that the Union Jack (flag of our nation) is not allowed to fly, St Georges day is disregarded as a "racist festival" as is Christmas day etc..
You see it's bollox like that, which reminds what a brainless bunch of complete ****wits racists really are.
Thank you for reminding me Lanesra. Now I'll go and do something more useful, like go and talk to my cat.
you do, you massive prick
Nice - are you going to explain to me in what way 'the Union Jack is not allowed to fly' then?
(It's only the Union Jack when it's flying on a ship btw - surely a proud patriot such as yourself should know that)
you do, you massive prick
😆
Now I'll go and do something more useful, like go and talk to my cat.
Or log back in as Rudeboy