Bassists of Singletrackworld....

Perhaps someone can tell me what I should be calling what I wrongly call the root.

try not to get obsessed with the theory behind music as it can be a real killjoy and put you off playing.

oh dont worry about that mate, im really enjoying this and im doing a bit of everything, practising songs from tabs or youtube videos, bassbuzz course, and actually enjoying learning what theory i can digest for now.  its all good.

its fair to say that i didnt know if id keep it up once id started, but im enjoying as much if not more than i thought, so next problem will be 'what bass/amp next' 😀

wish id done this 40 years ago! 🙄 

oh and ok, ill go look at some damned tabs then 😉 

cheers

Ta, Scapegoat. In real life I only ever play with French musicians so just translate word for word. What you state is what I meant in my original post. Today I've learned on here that Sid didn't even play on some live performances. However, there are Youtubes out there where he's clearly playing what's coming out of the sound system. This one for example.

To follow on the bit about Root notes

imagine a chord of C - it has the notes C  E  G

C is the lowest note and the root (the start) of the chord, the E is the third (major in this case)  and G is the fifth

to make the chord you count the notes up from the root - for C you are using  C D E F G A B  - all basic chords are notes 1,3,5

you can use a third or fifth if you want to get flashy, a good example of this is when a guitarist plays the chords C G Amin, you play the notes C B A where the B is the third of the G chord but all you are doing is play the notes in a row downwards 

Posted by: Blackflag

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try not to get obsessed with the theory behind music as it can be a real killjoy and put you off playing

^This.

I actually do understand theory to a certain extent in fact I did CSE music way back in the 70s when I was just starting out on acoustic guitar.

Now I've been a bass player for around 30 years in the same band for most of that and I can't remember a single time that theory has entered my head while learning or playing bass lines. For learning I rely on ears and tab and practice until it just becomes muscle memory. I couldn't tell you the names of the notes I am playing at any given time and apart from the open strings, 5th and 12th fret I couldn't even tell you the names of the notes on the fretboard without looking, counting frets and thinking about it.

Non of that stops me from enjoying what I do.

I’ve picked up theory over the years from a mix of teaching myself and hanging around with musicians who use it to communicate but I’d really caution digging into it too early, especially as so many songs are not strictly diatonic (use just the notes and chords that are within the key(s) of the song).

One of the joys of popular music since rock n roll is the amount of dissonance in the harmony, with blue notes, passing notes, borrowed chords, chromaticism and so on.

Starting out in rock bass (inc. punk, metal, etc) the most valuable thing you can do a lot of the time is bang out root notes as evenly (all equal loudness) and in the pocket (in time) as possible. Just sit into it and go DUM DUM DUM DUM DUM and enjoy how good it feels!

Do it with a backing track and on its own and make it feel as good when there’s nothing else to hear, just your bass. It’s quite zen!

Thing is, we all learn in different ways, and we all apply music theory to what we play, although we might not realise it.

Sadexpunk obviously has an enquiring mind and is actively enjoying dipping into basic theory.  The questions he is asking can be answered with material from grade  1 or 2 from the Associated Board syllabus. In other words it’s fundamental stuff. Understanding what chords can be played in a given key and why a chord is minor or major is important, ask a six string player! 

Yes, we can all have fun playing covers from Tabs or by ear, or even improvising to backing tracks and if that’s  what you want crack on-it’s all music and it’s all good. 

But please don’t stifle someone who wants to understand not just WHAT he is playing, but WHY. 

Posted by: jordan

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Posted by: Blackflag

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try not to get obsessed with the theory behind music as it can be a real killjoy and put you off playing

^This.

I actually do understand theory to a certain extent in fact I did CSE music way back in the 70s when I was just starting out on acoustic guitar.

Now I've been a bass player for around 30 years in the same band for most of that and I can't remember a single time that theory has entered my head while learning or playing bass lines. For learning I rely on ears and practice until it just becomes muscle memory. 

I think that this is the case for most bass players, especially those who started in the pre internet era. We just had to listen and mentally or literally transcribe what we heard and then practice that until we could perform it. There was next to no tuition for electric bass - general music theory, yes, of course but how many felt the need to go down that route? I played double bass at school and of course, theory went hand in hand with that, but not in any great depth. If you're reading you don't need to know the why, just how.

When it comes to creating original bass parts one just draws upon one's influences and experience to decide what works and what doesn't and then you just hone something from there. If I could have the last 55 years over, I don't think that I'd do anything very differently - after that length of time playing, the best you can hope for is that you sound like you - that you have your own "voice".

This was brought home to me last night, at a local blues club, where another guy, who I didn't know and who, on this occasion was playing guitar, said to me later that the thing that struck him about me was that, in lots of ways,  I sounded a lot like him when he plays bass.

He's twenty years younger but the same influences - blues, pop/rock, jazz, funk - it all shows through, I suppose.

I'm still going through my "keeper" basses process, btw, and when I've made up my mind I'll give a heads up on here - there's nothing Fender shaped though.....

Posted by: Scapegoat

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But please don’t stifle someone who wants to understand not just WHAT he is playing, but WHY.

Not trying to stifle at all and apologies if it came across that way. I'm all for people learning as much as they can but don't put yourself under pressure by thinking it is absolutely necessary.

It’s definitely a generational thing. By that I don’t mean age, more how long ago you learned. All the posts saying you learned by ear and figured it out for yourself start “when I learned 20/30 years ago”. Well of course you did, apart from formal lessons there wasn’t any other way to learn. 

35 years ago, I took after school keyboard lessons. I was given a piece a week to practice and a particular scale to learn, without any reference to the theory. I could read music and play the pieces but looking back didn’t understand why the music worked. Since starting bass, lots of theory relating to stuff I did has fallen into place and I understand a lot more than I did before. This has really helped me in the bass playing. 

If someone is simply playing roots and fifths, if you can recognise this it makes learning the song easier. Instead of learning note for note, if you’ve figured it R->5 then if you know the 5th pattern all you need to learn is the chord changes and you automatically know where the next note is. I’m sure you’d also figure this out eventually by ear, but knowing why, can speed the process up. 

None of this a criticism of other ways to learn. In fact I’m jealous of players that can pick out stuff by ear, I find it really difficult. 

Not trying to stifle at all and apologies if it came across that way. I'm all for people learning as much as they can but don't put yourself under pressure by thinking it is absolutely necessary.

no need to apologise, i didnt take it that way and im also not putting myself under any pressure to 'learn music'.

im one of those people that like to dig down and really understand things, i guess a lot of mountain bikers are like that.  we dont just buy a bike and ride it, we like to understand how everything works so we can tinker and fix things when they break, its a hobby, an interest.

im the same with everything, a tap needs changing, im not paying a plumber to do it if i can fix it myself, so im going to find out how it all works, take it apart and replace with a new one.  im currently talking to a sparky from on here who's been kind enough to make me a few 'electricity' videos cos i realised i dont understand it and want to be able to diagnose problems and fix things without killing myself 😀

the bass is a hobby now, so im interested in it all, including the theory, and while the wifes browsing away on vinted, im reading about triads and arpeggios, minor this, major that blah di blah.  i may get to the point where i think 'thats enough now' i know all i need to know on the theory side.  for now tho, im lapping it all up, and ive got a good mix of theory, learning songs from tabs and videos, and the bassbuzz course itself which is really good.

Posted by: clubby

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35 years ago, I took after school keyboard lessons. I was given a piece a week to practice and a particular scale to learn, without any reference to the theory. I could read music and play the pieces but looking back didn’t understand why the music worked. Since starting bass, lots of theory relating to stuff I did has fallen into place and I understand a lot more than I did before. This has really helped me in the bass playing. 

If someone is simply playing roots and fifths, if you can recognise this it makes learning the song easier. Instead of learning note for note, if you’ve figured it R->5 then if you know the 5th pattern all you need to learn is the chord changes and you automatically know where the next note is. I’m sure you’d also figure this out eventually by ear, but knowing why, can speed the process up. 

Same here.  As a youngster I sang in a pretty high level choir and could read as well as any. I don't actually remember having lessons on reading music, although of course learning the violin would have meant reading music to play certain notes, and singing from a score several hours every day would have meant constant immersion in music, but I don't remember any concerted effort to learn or be tested on it, it was simply part of the furniture. 

I started singing again once I retired a few years ago and joined a choir, where I found reading was like riding a bike- a skill that sticks. I now sing with a pro ensemble where we're given a  piece to read and sing first go, and I'm still honing my sight-reading skills all the time. Without music theory I wouldn't know where to look and listen out for my entry notes, and without it I wouldn't know what the next interval should sound like, and I wouldn't be able to sing the right rhythm, or stop singing where there's a rest and...and...and, so in my world being able to read music is key to success. 

I played six string for a while and the theory behind it was a bit foggy as I simply wanted to play music. I eventually more or less gave up but could hold my own with campfire songs with open chords and learnt the bottom two strings playing barre chords so I could strum along with a few rock and punk songs, but I was ponderous and hopeless playing lead as I could never really get going beyond a few simple blues licks. 

I took up bass a few years ago (pandemic boredom) and love it. I started off with Fender Play and various YouTube folk, and eventually took in-person lessons when the lockdowns ended. On reflection my teacher and I made some progress between us, but wouldn't recommend him for various reasons. I play with the "worship band" in  the church where I sing and we have a folder with about 120 songs to play. The folder is a mixed bag, but the majority of the songs are in full notation. Some are pretty accurate but a large number are simply transcribed left-hand piano parts so aren't necessarily workable bass lines. In those instances I'll find a recording of the piece being played if there is one and improvise/expand/simplify to make them more playable. Some are presented as chord charts only, so I'll listen to the original and make up or copy a bass line. 

Sometimes we'll decide to play a piece that hasn't yet been notated and we'll set about learning them. The guitarist likes chord charts, but I like to play from notation so I'll split the bass off using stem software and transcribe them onto a score and add the chord progressions on top.  The drummer and the keys players are both top notch musicians so between us we'll come up with a hybrid score and chord chart. I've also analysed and notated or tabbed lead solos occasionally for the guitarist.

Playing notated music from a score was the best thing I ever did to learn the fretboard.

My point?  Knowing some theory has made my progress on the bass much quicker-as Clubby says knowing where the bass is likely to go next means you can learn much quicker, and knowing the fretboard and intervals inside out means you can get to grips with a song much quicker than having to keep checking by trial and error. That doesn't mean notation is the only way, far from it. I love playing along to YouTube tabs as well as everybody else, and chord charts will always be a gift, as will being able to listen and pick out notes and intervals..... it's all music and it's all good, but delving into the theory helps some, but as we all know too well, it's an uphill battle for some that may well put folk off. 

Posted by: clubby

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All the posts saying you learned by ear and figured it out for yourself start “when I learned 20/30 years ago”. Well of course you did, apart from formal lessons there wasn’t any other way to learn. 

20/30 years ago ? I wish, my friend, I wish. 

Of course, there's a big age range anyway, on any forum like this, and so it's inevitable that there will be similarly large differences in learning experiences.

I played double bass at school but once I left at 16 that all came to an end. I had no choice but to play electric bass. I wish that I'd started playing fretless straight away but fretless electric was a pretty niche thing back then - I can't even remember who was the first big name that I saw use one - probably Rick Danko?

I can’t even play fretted bass that well, I’ve know idea how people manage fretless bass. 

Posted by: Andy R

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I wish that I'd started playing fretless straight away but fretless electric was a pretty niche thing back then - I can't even remember who was the first big name that I saw use one - probably Rick Danko?

Probably Bill Wyman! But no-one realised he was on fretless because he was playing a bass he’d defretted and didn’t have a sound that brought out the more obvious tonal difference with a fretless.

Back on the theory front - it’s a very useful tool but I’d strongly recommend treating the harmony as a suggestion or guidance rather than a black or white rule (not because theory is wrong, because it’s very very complex so you can play “outside” or reharmonise etc and the deeper rules of harmony allow it).

I use it as a songwriting problem solver when I get stuck and I’ve been dipping my toe into jazz walking bass which harmony is very very useful for (unless your ear is absolutely incredible).

Posted by: chiefgrooveguru

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Posted by: Andy R

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I wish that I'd started playing fretless straight away but fretless electric was a pretty niche thing back then - I can't even remember who was the first big name that I saw use one - probably Rick Danko?

Probably Bill Wyman! But no-one realised he was on fretless because he was playing a bass he’d defretted and didn’t have a sound that brought out the more obvious tonal difference 

Yes, it probably was, with that Framus, but I never paid much attention to the Stones anyway......some of Rick Danko's work on that Ampeg AEB is superb, with almost euphonium-like lines at times.

I've always likened playing fretless bass (especially in situations that don't really call for it) to going out on a group ride on a rigid singlespeed. Yes, in some ways you're making life harder for yourself but if you've been doing it for years it just becomes what you do.. and the only way to shut the naysayers up is to do it well and most importantly, never complain and never make excuses.

There's no answer, other than if you want to do either well, other than to just keep doing it.

The most important thing with fretless in a stage situation is that you have to be able to hear yourself with some definition - or I do, at least. If I have no FOH support I run either three 1x12" cabs vertically stacked or two 1x12" and a 2x10", again vertically, sometimes with the signal split to two heads with more defineable mids to the 2x10, which is more at ear level.

Or maybe I should say - "I used to". Those days are mostly behind me now, that's life..

well ive had 2 good sessions with mates, jamming along, trying stuff out, almost learning new songs.  i feel heartened that my mate can tell me 'this one starts on E, then goes to A, then the chorus is 2 bars of C then 2 bars of F' and i can find them quickly on the fretboard and at least play along with root notes, knowing where they are.  yeah i still get mixed up with counting bars and knowing when to swap to chorus etc, but thats just a case of knowing the songs a bit better.

and im still pretty slow at the 12 bar blues pattern.  think i was ok at 90 bpm but at 100, if i plucked the wrong string by mistake i lost it and had to wait to reset and come back in.  hes a really good player and i could keep that pattern going for a few minutes at 90bpm, hed be squealing some blues out and it sounded ace (to me anyway 😀 )

ive come away with a few songs to fully learn before our next jam, and hopefully i can get that muscle memory for the shapes and maybe progress beyond root notes with a bit of 1-3-5-1 maybe.

loving it.

Great having mates to play along with, really motivating, I haven't made the effort to find any after the last band fell apart.

Ed Hornby and Clubby talk about root and fifth (there's an STW member with that pseudo). In practical terms the fifths are really easy to find: 1/ the string below two frets up 2/ the string above same fret (except on the E string which doesn't have a string above 😉 )

I've played guitar since I was a kid but only took up bass six years ago because asked to play bass for a retirement party. I bought a Harley Benton bass for 80e plugged it into my guitar amp and it sounded good enough, Learnt the songs and everything went fine. One was When I'm 64 which is lots of root and fifth using 1 and 2 in the paragraph above and has a slide up to an octave with a fifth added (well that's what I did anyhow). Regular bassists will note I make life harder than necessary at two points because I stay on the same string. This was what I sent the other band members to practice with, crap vid but I think you can see:

Can we nominate Josh from Bass Buzz for some kind of award? 

This video absolutely hits the nail on the head with his description of why learning not theory, but theory relevant to your personal goals matters.  Hands up if you thought learning the circle of fifths would make you a better bass player? 🤣 

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Posted by: Edukator

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Ed Hornby and Clubby talk about root and fifth (there's an STW member with that pseudo). In practical terms the fifths are really easy to find: 1/ the string below two frets up 2/ the string above same fret (except on the E string which doesn't have a string above 

You're being slightly confusing here - you can find the fifth above by going one string above and two frets up (say A on the 4th string to E on the 3rd)  or below by using 5th fret on the A to open E (or 5th fret on the B string on a 5 string bass).

That puzzled me too, but I realised Edukator meant string below in the physical sense, as in the A string sits below the E string, whereas we think in terms of pitch, so the A string is a string above the E string 

Example which I hope clarifies Andy-R. Play a C (A string third fret). Directly above on the same fret you have a G on the E string which is a fifth, and on the D string two frets up you also have a G which is the fifth but an octave higher.

On the vid I start singing on root C# (A string 4th fret) and play the fifth G# (E string 4th fret) every other beat. That's an example of 2/.

There's then a chord change to G# so I play root G# and play the fifth D# (A string 6th fret) ever other beat. That's an example of 1/.

Edit: That's what I meant Scapegoat.

I always just think of above or below in terms of pitch, not the physical position and of course that wouldn't apply to upright bass....

Go across a string and up two frets could be problematic too…🤨

I’m pretty sure  convention always talks about up and down in terms of pitch not geography.  French musicians can be forgiven of course, just don’t start those continental chappies talking about Keys as they have different terms. The Germans for example use B for B flat and H for B natural. So Beethoven’ sonata in B minor is called Sonata in H moll. 

Everyone agree where to put their fingers now to get fifths with no effort or thought ? 😉

Just trying to be helpful with something easy and useful, and with a practical example.

just to muddy the waters here, i hadnt thought of a fifth (or third come to think of it) as going lower, only higher.

so for a 1-3-5 noodle, the 3rd and 5th of C to me would be E and G (both on D string?) unless ive got my intervals wrong.  so i have that pattern in my head and would try and get muscle memory in my fingers for it.

so to use 1-3-5 going lower, would it still be E and G (open E string and 3rd fret for G?)  so we use the same notes but an octave lower rather than try and work out a reverse scale pattern say?  hope so as if it isnt my head will explode 😀

and if so, then for a regular 4/4 beat, ive now got 5 possible notes to choose from that will all sound ok in an improvised pattern of my choice rather than 3?

Well worked out. Yes, any E and G will still be the 3rd and 5th of C major, so if you are noodling try them both, or mix and match to add variety. 

Posted by: Edukator

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Everyone agree where to put their fingers now to get fifths with no effort or thought ? 😉

Just trying to be helpful with something easy and useful, and with a practical example.

Yep, great tip! Bassists will also do to remember that if you go up one more string from the fifth, same fret, you have an octave. So 1-5-8 arpeggios are a doddle to remember too. Doesn’t work on six strings cos of that pesky B string

Posted by: Scapegoat

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Yep, great tip! Bassists will also do to remember that if you go up one more string from the fifth, same fret, you have an octave. So 1-5-8 arpeggios are a doddle to remember too. Doesn’t work on six strings cos of that pesky B string

Trying not to be annoying but every time you say six strings I think of six string basses, which unlike six string guitars are normally tuned entirely in fourths! (Bass VI being the special exception as it’s tuned like a guitar but an octave lower, not B-C as a six string basss normally is).

Although fours still dominate, fives and sixes are way more common than they used to be.

😎

I tried a V early in my learning journey and couldn’t get on with it. I found I couldn’t see what I was doing with that big fat B getting in the way. I have a Hipshot on both my basses and various octave pedals if I need anything lower. Each to their own, and if I find a need in the future I’ll have another go. 

In the process of lining up a fretless to see whether Andy-R was right about my intonation.  

I found the hardest thing to get used to with a five string was the extra effort it to took to pay attention to damping the fifth string. I had a very nice 2003 Musicman Stingray V ("Copperhead Bronze", Pau ferro board) that I bought on a whim because I fancied trying the whole five string thing, and I did gig with it quite a few times, but the novelty of those extra low notes just seemed to wear off.

I could have put it to better use in Greece, to be honest, to offset the high end of bouzoukis and lyras, (which is why everybody uses them) but stupidly I never brought it out there.

That’s what I notice with a five - it’s not as effortless to play freely so I don’t think I write as well on it. That’s with a low strung five.

My acoustic bass guitar which was my only bass at home and that I did 99% of my writing on is set up as a high strung five, EADGC, and I don’t really notice the extra string on that and only use it when I run out of upper register access playing chords on the lower strings. Then when I swap to four string in my band I have to move some of the chords down a string and up five frets. 

I’ve replaced that with a Jack Casady hollowbody at home and the acoustic is now in the factory (it’s too noisy during videos to be in the studio, resonates too easily!) It’s nice to not have to adapt to the different string spacing, and also how the chords can be barred on the four, and strummed with less muting shenanigans.

Happily back on a four for almost everything now. I’ve got my 36” custom five tuned ADGCF (a tone down) for going v low and my old Warwick Streamer tuned BEAD - and to be honest with 24 frets you can play everything bar the highest semitone on a classic Fender, as well as going down to a low B. But they’re really just for demo videos and maybe overdubbing some lower bass lines when recording with my band - we shall see!

I should add that I think the Stingray 5 is one of the best sounding fives ever and if it looked like the four instead of having that giant pickguard I’d probably try to come up with a good excuse to buy one…

Now they’re on the Stingray Specials I think the four and five should sound the same (with the pickup selector in parallel on the five) because they’re both now on  neo magnets. I’m sure they used to use more different sounding pickups so the Stingray 5 was arguably more of a Sabre 5.

I could have put it to better use in Greece, to be honest, to offset the high end of bouzoukis and lyras,

spooky, a couple of years ago i considered learning the lyra.

we love greece, take most of our holidays on crete, and im learning the language to just try and yap with the locals.  we visited a lyra maker in neapoli and i thought itd be a bit different and also maybe fun to learn and possibly get the chance to play a bit over there.  never actually followed it up tho due to the logistics of buying over there plus not having the time to learn an instrument back then.  now i do have that time and i think i made the right choice with the bass.  i cant see much call for a lyra in jam sessions with my mates.

just trying to link patterns here to what i already know, and am wondering about that 'blues box' shape.  it wouldnt appear to be any type of 1-3-5-8 that i can see, neither for a major scale or minor.  i was hoping that i would have a lightbulb moment, "ahhhh thats what pattern it is!"

it would appear to be 1-5-6-8 of a major scale, and 1-6-7 -(theres no octave) of a minor scale.

unless of course its just 'the blues box pattern' 😀 

Posted by: sadexpunk

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I could have put it to better use in Greece, to be honest, to offset the high end of bouzoukis and lyras,

spooky, a couple of years ago i considered learning the lyra.

we love greece, take most of our holidays on crete, and im learning the language to just try and yap with the locals.  we visited a lyra maker in neapoli and i thought itd be a bit different and also maybe fun to learn and possibly get the chance to play a bit over there.  

Where we are, in the Southern Peloponnese, we don't tend to see lyras very often, as they're mainly a Cretan thing (Nikos Zoidakis being probably the best known player) but sometimes one of the panigyri bands will have one - and those bands are usually ****ing loud and use five string bass. Between the lyra, a bouzouki, a baglama and the five string, it's like Joe Jackson said - "brutalised by bass and terrorised by treble" and brutalised is the word - the PA systems are driven right to their limit and beyond . These are always outdoors and you can hear them miles away.

This coming from someone who never had a reputation for being a quiet player...

just trying to link patterns here to what i already know, and am wondering about that 'blues box' shape.  it wouldnt appear to be any type of 1-3-5-8 that i can see, neither for a major scale or minor.  i was hoping that i would have a lightbulb moment, "ahhhh thats what pattern it is!"

it would appear to be 1-5-6-8 of a major scale, and 1-6-7 -(theres no octave) of a minor scale.

unless of course its just 'the blues box pattern' 😀 

We were playing something a few evenings ago that we'd never tried before  - "A Face in the Crowd" (Tom Petty") and it struck me what a cool, laid-back, groove it has and how easy and satisfying it is to play. Just close your eyes and sit back into it. Loads of space for nice passing notes too..

Just had a quick listen to that Tom Petty song. Nice  and straightforward, and the chord progression reminds me of a Pink Floyd (Gilmour era) track I  can’t quite put my finger  on, or at least the resolution does.  I’ll try and work out which one it is. 

It really is one of the simplest songs that any bass player would wish to play, but feel is everything, as is usually the case. Where you sit in relation to "the beat", how well you work with your drummer, all this stuff.....

One thing that I do know is that the older I get, the more I appreciate minimalist, pared-down basslines, something where you can just sit back into it, exist in your own space and listen to everything around you.

I think we are occasionally guilty of wanting to overplay. I play a lot of Muse, and the bass-lines, as with many three piece bands, has to do a lot of heavy lifting in terms of driving the melody and the rhythm. Add to that they are often written by Bellamy and his classical musicality comes out… they are rarely “intuitive” bass lines. Brilliant fun, challenging in terms of playability and Wolstenholme’s phenomenal speed/tempo. I’ve learnt a lot playing his stuff, but a simple bass line, as you say, demands being played properly, accurately and with feeling. 

another a bit like that which is just laid back and has me counting bars and timing, etc. while playing along is Rainy Night in Soho.

It also helped me work out similar to the posts from Sadex and Scapegoat above that a 1-4-5 progression (in this case) also has an equivalent shape on the lower strings, and so instead of always playing the F and G on the D string, you can as the mood takes play them on the E as well.

And then as the bass part gets a bit more involved in it's just increasingly using the other scale notes to lead you into the 1-4-5 - so a CDE run into the F, and a GAB run into the C, etc., and before you know it you have a bassline that covers an octave and a half

Posted by: Scapegoat

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 I play a lot of Muse, and the bass-lines, as with many three piece bands, has to do a lot of heavy lifting in terms of driving the melody and the rhythm. 

I've probably played in three piece bands 90% of the time, either guitar, drums, bass or keys, drums, bass. To be honest, with very few exceptions, I think that two guitarists in a band is one too many. ...

Only the other evening, at rehearsals, the guitarist that I'm working with was concerned that "it might be a bit empty during my solos". I told him not to worry, that I don't mind being left "naked and exposed" to carry the rhythmic and melodic content - remember, I grew up being influenced by bands like Cream, Mountain, Grand Funk Railroad, Beçk, Bogert and Appice, Free etc etc.....I know the mindset, I suppose.

On the other hand, if you can rip through that Muse material, then I have absolutely nothing useful that I can add about playing in a three piece band.......

ive now got 4 songs under my belt, pretty vacant, teenage kicks, blitzkrieg bop and er..... red light spells danger, billy ocean.  thanks mrs ex-p 😀

what im finding tho is that my timing, or 'groove' (?) is out a fair bit with the drums.  its ok with youtube blasting the song out, i can appear to know what im doing to family and friends and obviously get away with it cos they dont know any better, but its something id like to work on.  maybe its the speed of these songs, if i chose 'slow foot-tappers' itd be easier.

i remember a couple of you mentioning the 'moises' app (and i created a free account at the time), so just had a look at it to see about isolating the different elements to see if that would help.  its led to a couple of questions.....

firstly, is there any interface option other than white text on black background?  ive always struggled with that, even after a few seconds of looking at a screen when i look away i can still see 'ghost text', so i always need black on white.  if not then its a deal-breaker, i cant use it.

and secondly, i couldnt work out if the songs had to be mine to start with to upload.  again, if thats the case i dont have any, i stream/youtube.

is moises no use to me then?  any other recommendations for either just listening to the bass, or having a song with no bass that i play along to?

of the recommended 'tab sites' i have most success with songsterr for viewing tabs and just listening to the 'synth bass' sound but i cant slow it down.  i think thats a subscriber option but hesitant to pay for something id just need for the odd song.

thanks

As a mostly metal / hardcore guitarist with a preoccupation with fast chugging (palm muting) then i can 100% recommend using a metronome app and playing it loudly (mine goes through my stereo). If the song is 140bpm just set the metronome at 110bpm and get the song or riff nailed on, then keep upping the bpm in small increments until you start to struggle, then hold it there or go back down a bit, keep doing this and your timing and speed will vastly improve.

Yup, metronome. No hiding from a click. 
Can be a bit boring though, so I prefer to use a drum loop. Loads on YouTube but I use the (free) Fender Tune app. Has loads of styles and easy to start slow and build speed as you get better. 

Try not to fall into the trap of bodging through at full speed before you are ready. All that does is build bad habits. Much better to play it right at a lower tempo and build up. 

If you use a desktop or laptop then download Chrome audio capture extension. 

Find the song you want to play on YouTube. Use the playback speed function (settings icon bottom right of the screen) to set it to a tempo you're happy with. I generally found that 75% was usually pretty workable, and capture the audio as an MP3 file. 

Open Moises and choose the split function and upload the file you've captured. The freebie version is a bit limited but you can split it to vocal/drums/bass/other .  Once processed you can remix the four parts to suit, or simply isolate and export (download) the parts you want. 

Limited, because the free version will only do five minutes max file length.  If your chosen 75%tempo track exceeds five mins, then you can use a free DAW (I like audacity) to do the tempo stretching.  So this time split a full speed track in Moises, download all 4 tracks as separate files, load them all into audacity and use the change tempo without altering pitch function to create your own personal backing track at the tempo you're happy with. 

Here's some footage of my most recent band. I packed it in just before Xmas after 15 years with them and about 700 gigs. Self taught by ear by playing along with all my favourite trackes, absolutely no theory knowledge whatsoever. I'm mainly a pick player and have now bought a 5 string which I'm learning to play with my fingers whilst detraining my head from thinking I'm on a 4 string 🙂 Warwick and Cort basses, Mesa Boogie amp and Barefaced cabs mostly.

And for @sadexpunk here's a great song to play with a pick. Very basic in terms of notes - theres only about 5 in the whole song - but it'll teach you stamina, staying tight with the drummer and tempo control. You can do just downstrokes but it gets a bit wearing after a while and you'll see me switch around to ups and downs in the song

And a bit of Ozzy. Not easy to play on bass as I'm trying to fill out behind the geetar in a lot of the song and it's stupidly uptempo doing 16's under it most of the way. Bloody good fun though....

For Moises I just spend 99p on iTunes to buy the song I want to learn. Pretty sure you can use the metronome icon at the bottom to slow the song down to whatever you want. ( still in the free version!)