metronome app's a good shout, thanks. not sure my eyes could cope with the white on black interface with moises, plus the faff, so i'll try the metronome first. then ill search for drum loops on youtube. my mate reckons he just says 'alexa, play 100 bpm drum loop' and he gets one, so ill try that on deezer (obviously not shout 'alexa' 😀 )
@mudpup thanks, i think i was more engrossed in the audience on she sells sanctuary, that must have been a rare old gig! 😀 love the cult, so ill look into that as another song choice, thanks.
Try not to fall into the trap of bodging through at full speed before you are ready. All that does is build bad habits.
that is me! 😀 think i just got over-excited at my family thinking im an axe-god so sent them a couple of vids. they think im sh1t-hot now, if only they knew 😀 i'll settle down now and try and work on my timing with the metronome/drum loops. im on module 8 of bassbuzz now, just doing syncopation. struggled a little with that, i can usually keep count ok (1 and 2 and 3 etc), but trying to play 'off the beat' seemed awkward.
cheers
I’ve said before that I’m not a teacher and I’ve never had any bass lessons but…
On these songs where you’re struggling to play in time, another thing you can do rather than slowing them down is to play 1/4 notes at the same tempo, rather than the 1/8 notes that you should be playing.
Once they’re sounding in time (record yourself) then play just the first two 1/8 notes of the bar and stay quiet for the rest. Then play the two pairs of 1/8 notes on 1 & and on 3 &.
Then play the three 1/8 notes on 1 & 2 and stay quiet for the rest. Etc.
This gets you used to playing faster but lets you build stamina gradually.
Professionals do this live too - if stuff is really fast and relentless on record and they’re playing it even faster live they’ll add variations to give themselves a rest because that sounds a million times better than tiring and slipping out of the pocket.
that is me! 😀 think i just got over-excited at my family thinking im an axe-god so sent them a couple of vids. they think im sh1t-hot now, if only they knew 😀 i'll settle down now and try and work on my timing with the metronome/drum loops. im on module 8 of bassbuzz now, just doing syncopation. struggled a little with that, i can usually keep count ok (1 and 2 and 3 etc), but trying to play 'off the beat' seemed awkward.
You've came a long way very quickly, so let them believe it.
Love syncopated stuff. Again, a metronome or drum loop is a big help here as you don't need to count in your head, just follow the beat.
just thinking, this is the tuner/metronome ive borrowed from my mate
i can use it by either plugging guitar in, or just switching it on and it 'hears' the strings.
just wondering, if i got myself another jack lead, is there a way of the metronome coming from the amp too? obviously theres only one input in the amp and the bass goes to that, so is there a way of going bass to tuner, tuner to amp, and i could play the metronome (or not) at the same time?
cheers
sorted it. plugged an adaptor onto the end of a 'jack to red/white' lead ive got and gone in through 'CD' input.
just tried it on teenage kicks and pretty vacant and yes, i can see my timings out although..... i dont know what bpm they should be in really. obviously each will have their own bpm. is there a resource somewhere that tells you, or do you just keep upping the speed and timing until its fast enough, then play along with the song even if its actually slower than you practised?
If you search for “song title” bpm you’ll usually get a useful answer!
There are two challenges playing in time - playing faster is purely technique and stamina. Playing slower is the harder one because you have to hear/feel and execute the time more precisely.
A good example of this is the disappearing metronome exercise. Set a metronome to 120bpm and clap to it. If you’re perfectly in time you won’t be able to hear the metronome because your clap will mask it. The slower you set the metronome the harder it is to get it to disappear and stay disappeared!
So, fretless!
I knew of a fretless bass that had been sitting in someone's practice room for quite a while and asked whether I could borrow it to see if I could get on with it. The story is that the son of the household was doing some project at uni that needed a bass to complete the ensemble. Will's a cellist so volunteered to get a bass and play the bass part. He naturally enough chose a fretless, but it's been unused for years.
I picked it up yesterday and it was a bit of a sorry sight. Strings showed signs of corrosion, the fingerboard had an obvious backbow to it and of course it sounded crap with scratchy pots and loads of clatter. I sorted the clatter by raising the bridge just to I could noodle out a few choons, but it was hard going.
Today it's had a bit of a setup. As I took the strings off the nut came off with them, so that's been cleaned, scraped and glued back in place. Strings removed the backbow was worse than it looked strung, so a quarter turn of the truss rod and a fresh set of 100-45 flatwounds. the bridge saddles were thick with dust and grease so they've been sorted, and I've set the string action height to "only just not buzzing". Intonation was interesting. Each string was getting on for a quarter tone sharp at the twelfth dots, but after a lot of cussing and tuning buggeration it now plays pretty much according to the dots.
New battery and a squirt of switch cleaner has the pots working a lot better. Tomorrow I'll hook it up the amp, and see what it can do. Tone through the interface sounds pretty ropey at the best of times so I'll have a chance to get a proper feel of it then.
It's a Vintage V940 FL, so a budget end active 4 string. If it works OK I'll probably make him an offer for it now I've spent an evening fettling it.
I usually set fretless basses up with basically a flat fingerboard with only enough relief to barely discern. If I need to do any fingerboard work I set it up as straight as possible, then mark it with pencil and sand along the string paths with a straightedge which has fine wet or dry attached. Then, if needed, I just blend in between the string paths.
In my opinion, fretless basses are even more demanding of good neck setup than fretted. A low point of even a few thou. deep is enough to make low action unobtainable.
Well, it’s different, but nowhere near as hard as I thought it would be. Andy R will, I’m sure put me right if I’m wide of the mark, but I’ve learnt that with a perfectly intonated string at the twelfth dots, more or less every note will be a hair sharp if you fret right on the dots. Fretting just to the nut side appears to be the answer, so that the string touches the board at the dots, rather than your finger.
I’ve had lots of fun with stuff I know already, and muscle memory works faster than your eyes and any form of trying to work out where the next note is. I played that Tom Petty song and it calls for perfect intonation through the full bars of root notes, and I played Hazel O’Connors “Will You” which has some interesting choices of where to play which notes, so alternating between string swaps and playing up and down the same string for various bits. Again, reasonably slow and exposed in places it needs careful finger placement.
Unable to contain my curiosity I also played some fast stuff. When we were helping sadexpunk with his blues jamming I learnt ZZ Top’s Tush, fast G shuffle and that played on the Fretless is , err, different, but huge fun. I may even record that and post a demo if I get time.
Muse? Psycho with its heavy riff and scale work was great fun too. Supermassive black hole needs good muscle memory with all its Octaves and runs, Muscle Museum needs a lot of accuracy and I thought Hysteria would be a step too far, but I managed to surprise myself!
So thanks Andy-R, another horizon to discover. I’m off to learn Gilmour’s fretless line on Hey You.
Well, it’s different, but nowhere near as hard as I thought it would be. Andy R will, I’m sure put me right if I’m wide of the mark, but I’ve learnt that with a perfectly intonated string at the twelfth dots, more or less every note will be a hair sharp if you fret right on the dots. Fretting just to the nut side appears to be the answer, so that the string touches the board at the dots, rather than your finger.
I'm not about to put anybody right, my fretless technique is, I'm sure, far from exemplary.....but yes, depending how much pressure you're using, you need to be back a gnat's cock from the markers. Mind you, as you go across the neck or further towards the nut, parallax error makes the markers little more than a rough guide anyway.
Just be thankful that you're not using one of the TC Electronic RH series heads, with the always-on chromatic tuner - it's "interesting", let's say. I have to admit to sometimes taping over the display, otherwise it's easy to get obsessed with checking it.
I'm glad that you're enjoying it anyway - it is pretty much like riding singlespeeds, the more you do it, the more you get into it.
Just be thankful that you're not using one of the TC Electronic RH series heads, with the always-on chromatic tuner - it's "interesting", let's say. I have to admit to sometimes taping over the display, otherwise it's easy to get obsessed with checking it.
I'm glad that you're enjoying it anyway - it is pretty much like riding singlespeeds, the more you do it, the more you get into it.
Maybe that’s where my intonation ear comes in handy, no need worry (I nearly said “fret”) about it.
So, before I lose myself in a world of googling for fretless songs, are there any you’d recommend to learn?
Check out Gary Johnson's playing on some of the China Crisis albums - a fine, fine fretless player and one that never got enough notice taken of him, in my opinion anyway.
"Hanna Hanna" from the Working with Fire and Steel" album, with the the nice harmonic slide intro - in fact, anything from that album is great.
Another song that I used to really enjoy playing, back in a certain time of my life, was St Theresa (Joan Osborne, from the "Relish" album) Played originally by Mark Egan on a Pedulla Buzz. It's actually the reason why my wife bought me my MM Sterling fretless, back in '93.
But, as I might have said before, I have a liking for playing fretless in "inappropriate " situations. I once depped with a hardcore RnR band for a few weeks and played only fretless.It was a damn good physical workout - they played long sets, three sets an evening. I can't remember anyone, in the band or the audience, ever commenting on the fact it was fretless.......if they even noticed?
Look at some of Jack Bruce's back catalogue - most of that is fretless, Aria SB1000 and Warwick.
Well, it’s different, but nowhere near as hard as I thought it would be. Andy R will, I’m sure put me right if I’m wide of the mark, but I’ve learnt that with a perfectly intonated string at the twelfth dots, more or less every note will be a hair sharp if you fret right on the dots. Fretting just to the nut side appears to be the answer, so that the string touches the board at the dots, rather than your finger.
So funny that you wrote that. Was listening to a SBL podcast in the car today. It was with Tony Franklin and he was saying how much he hates lined fretless basses as the note is never on the line and it really annoys him. He did say even after all this time, he still likes side dots for a guide though. Some great stories in that podcast, well worth a listen. It’s. Episode 163.
St Theresa is an amazing song, I loved it when the album first came out. Will need to go back and listen again.
Yep, and the more I play the more I get to know where the pitfalls are. The perspective change as you play lower down the strings means extra concentration is required.
I was concerned at first that I’d miss the frets or at least the fret lines, but I’m glad this one only has side markers.
St Theresa is an amazing song, I loved it when the album first came out. Will need to go back and listen again.
Relish is a great album -(Karen just reminded me that it must be 30 years since I bought it for her) I think we had four or five songs from it in our repertoire, just to throw in among our originals - Spider Web, Dracula Moon, Crazy Baby, Pensacola, along with St Teresa.
I can't overstate how much I miss those days - listening to these songs again could easily bring tears to these old eyes - I'll never work with such fine musicians again, that's for certain. Now one of us (Carol Lefevre) is in Australia, the guitarist, George Hughes, (a very dear friend of mine) is practically deaf and doesn't play anymore and our drummer, Roger Leece, threw himself off a cliff and into (I hope) a better world.......
Everything I've done since then has, in a way, always been an attempt to recreate that inventiveness, that passion, that comradeship. I've never succeeded.....
Hipshot D tuner added, just for that low D in the coda of St Teresa and a gratuitous old band promo shot...
These should have been in the previous post....
Ignore the last two posts - there should have been images attached…..
( 
J7
If you search for “song title” bpm you’ll usually get a useful answer!
thats worked a treat, thanks.
been asking on the bassbuzz forum and discord groups about drum backing loops to play along with. the forum suggests the drumgenius app, altho it wont accept my bank card for some reason so probably not viable. the discord group suggests the 'beatbuddy mini 2' drum machine at over £100, so clearly the more expensive option.
im just after some rock drums that i can set the bpm to play ramones/sex pistols/undertones etc etc either on my own or jam with my mate who's playing guitar.....
ill also use the metronome to work on timing, this would just be another tool.
i dont mind paying for the right thing, so what would you recommend?
Again, YouTube has loads of drum tracks available. Search terms like “rock drum track 90bpm “
will throw up loads of options for free. Capture them with audio capture extension and off you go.
thanks, i should really have searched that first. ive searched for the relevant bpm for all the songs i want to practice and theyre all there, who'd have thunk it.
cheers
Personally, i'd use an AI drummer from Logic Pro, £200 software on a mac/ipad. Garageband might even have the AI drummer functions. This isn't an option for everyone, but if you want to learn about DAWs (Digital Audio Workstations) and have a Mac/ ipad it can be a really good tool as you can play along to AI drummers. You can adjust the speed, complexity, timbre, swing and also the amount of fills the AI drummer plays.
im just after some rock drums that i can set the bpm to play ramones/sex pistols/undertones etc etc either on my own or jam with my mate who's playing guitar.....
Fender Tune. Free app with lots of drum tracks. Variable bpm up to faster than you’ll ever need. Nicely adjustable metronome I. It as well.
Has a good variety for playing other styles as well, which might come in useful in the future.
Much easier than capture options.
Fender Tune. Free app with lots of drum tracks. Variable bpm up to faster than you’ll ever need. Nicely adjustable metronome I. It as well.
downloaded and just been using it thanks. only issue i have with it is i cant seem to cast it to my chromecast audio (and hence my speakers). can play deezer through it fine as theres a cast option, but even if i go straight to fender tune from deezer it doesnt play the drums through it. can just about get by with the phone speaker turned up but still......
EDIT: just found out my (hifi) amp has bluetooth, so sorted now.
couple of questions to keep me going if you dont mind. trying to up my game and learn love will tear us apart. seems like its 2 strings at once a lot of the time, sometimes 3.
firstly, my 'multi-string' playing sounds like sh1t 😀 im trying to keep my wrist loose and do both up and down strokes (a la hooky) but it just sounds garbage. the D string thats droning seems to be louder and is drowning out the notes on the G, also got a bit of fret rattle. any recommendations other than practice practice practice and sloooow it down? ive tried slowing it but still struggling.
also, there seem to be 2 different endings ive seen. one on songsterr (3 strings at once and i struggle with my finger positions and sounds AWFUL as i cant make the '5' on the A string make any difference to the sound) and one that looks easier (cos its only 2 strings) on a youtube playalong bass tab.
or......
any of you learned gentlemen (or ladies maybe) play LWTUA? and if so which ending do you generally use?
also a quick question around the 12 bar blues. i posted the original bassbuzz video on a previous page if you remember. ive just hit it again in the course, and this time the pattern was different, tho also given by josh. if you remember the first one went something like 1-5-flat 7-octave.
this one was the 1-3-5-3 triad. and also a different 12th bar. original 11th and 12th bars were I-I, this one ended on I-V.
can i now assume that there are many many versions of 12 bar blues then? just pick any old pattern you like as long as it contains notes from the same scale, and end on either I or V as you so wish?
I V ending is called a Turnaround and a very common variation. Spices things up before going back into the I at the start of the sequence. 1 3 5 3 is just another easy pattern that works over the chords. Blues is a lot about improvisation. The sequence repeats every 12 bars, numerous times. Your job as a bassist is to assist the guitarist or whoever else is taking their solo. If all you do for all night is play the same pattern, it’s pretty boring for you and then. Using different pattern each time round keeps it fresh for everyone.
Just wait until you get to 16 bar blues and 12/8 time.
Re LWTUA - I've had a wee try at the Songsterr version, and it seems fine. I wouldn't worry too much about it sounding crap, because you are a beginner, and you've spent the last several weeks learning how to fret and play single notes at a time. Now you are trying to strum chord shapes, basically. Its a new skill, it'll take time.
However, thanks for prompting me to give it a go, its fun to try!
If you get that, I challenge you to Sabotage. Should be simple. He's doing 1 thing the whole song, apart from that wee run he plays, but there must be a knack to it. Despite everything, I can't get it sounding decent at all.
Now you are trying to strum chord shapes, basically. Its a new skill, it'll take time.
yeah, its probably a combination of newbie, maybe the bass isnt set up perfect either, crap strumming action, and finger flexibility.
you managed that 705 finger placing ok did you? i find that as the D needs to be open and im fretting on the A and G strings that i struggle 'not muting' that D, and my hands in a really awkward position trying to fret 5 and 7 and avoid the D at the same time 😀
any tips on strumming chords on a bass? is it the same for newbie 6 string guitar players too? or is that easier because of closer strings maybe?
Well, I can't play the guitar, so I have no background of strumming chords. I think its just practice and building up finger strength and dexterity and the strumming technique, which is a bit different from the plucking technique you've been learning. I do find that either strumming with my fingers, or with a lighter pick held lightly helps.
The "705" shape was fine, though I found I have to use index finger and pinkie, rather than index and ring finger like you'd expect. Thats a wee bit much for me and feels really awkward otherwise.
I've just noticed though, assuming standad tuning, that "5" and "0" are the same D note, so I'm not sure what the effect of playing them together is. Maybe you could get away with "cheating" and just playing the open D and the 7th fret D on the G string?
I've just noticed though, assuming standad tuning, that "5" and "0" are the same D note, so I'm not sure what the effect of playing them together is. Maybe you could get away with "cheating" and just playing the open D and the 7th fret D on the G string?
wow hadnt noticed that, seems obvious when you think about it, wonder why hooky plays the A5 too. just for a 'deeper' tone maybe?
seen this for sale locally. i see chat on here about cabs and amps, and i like the orange look.
Orange PPC412 240W 4x12 Guitar Cab + Crush Pro 120W Amp Head CR120H
is it a bass amp or purely guitar?
Purely guitar mate. You could put a bass through it but it wouldn't sound great and may blow the drivers.
Purely guitar mate. You could put a bass through it but it wouldn't sound great and may blow the drivers.
thanks.
I’m back to walking along with the iReal book app, as my bandmates are being flakey and I’ve reached peak work stress due to the economic chaos of Trump’s tariffs. Reading charts is hard - but singleminded focus will help keep me sane…
I'd happily play bass throught that Orange amp and cab. Just turn the bass well down, the treble off and the middle up. Nothing will blow.
Lemmy used Marshall MF280L 4×12 guitar cabs - well they were considered guitar cabs when he started using them but then Marshall cottoned on and started marketing them as Lemmy Kilminster bass cabs. Obviously it won't have the deep thud of a bass cab but you might like it.
i think im ready to start improving my experience now and experiment with picks, get a comfier strap etc. id like to try a multi pack of dunlop picks but theres even a multitude of multi-packs to choose from! any recommendations for a pack so i can get a favourite sorted?
and also any recommendations for a comfortable 4" strap, or something non-slip to prevent neck dive?
thanks
First pack I bought was a Dunlop bass mix, most reasonably thick. Later I bought a light/medium mix after hearing a lot of punk players preferred a lighter pick. The heavier of this pack were also the lightest in the bass pack.
Didn’t really get anything useful in the lighter pack that I didn’t have from the original pack but you might find you prefer them.
Favourite go to is a yellow (0.73) Tortex in the wedge shape. Green (0.88) is also ok. Can see how the nylon 0.6 is good for fast punk but a bit small for me. Also don’t like too big or stiff either.
I pretty much did what Clubby did, for the same reasons. I've settled on the green (.88mm), sometimes the blue (1mm) standard shaped tortex. That's after trying yellow (.73mm) and purple (1.14mm). I now have enough picks to last me a lifetime.
The mix packs are good, guaranteed there'll be some that float your boat.
OK, so please dont laugh but as a beginner, Ive just had a revelation! Ive been learning since last September and Im working on Atomic just now. TBH, i think its beyond me just now and I struggle with most of the stretches but I have just found a pattern on the fretboard and I am delighted!!
On the E and A strings, if you play a note, lets say G on e-string (3rd fret) if you move 2 frets up and 2 strings up - thats a G too! And it works across the whole fretboard for the E and A strings.
OMG - I worked this out by myself!!! I have actually learned something!
Sorry but I had to share!!!
@pandhandj and that’s the beauty of bass / guitar. Frequent small victories / bursts of understanding meaning its stays fun at whatever level you are at. it used to blow my mind as a teenaged guitar beginner that every bit of music i was listening to lived somewhere in the neck of the cheap guitar i owned and all i needed to do was find it!
Just replaced the cheapo stock pickup in my cheapo squier mustang with an alnico 2 blade from Jamie at “the creamery pickups”
it sounds awesome. Little clip here if you are interested….
Can’t say enough good things about Jamie’s pickups, I’ve got a set of his p90s in a jazz master that sound amazing too!
Cheers ceepers, TY! Nice looking bass that! I have a sterling sub4 - its a way better bass than I am a player. As yet, I havent looked at the electronics at all (Even though I was an electronic engineer for 10 years 🤣). I hve to get my head round playing before i start messing with tone, etc. Maybe one day...
Was it somebody off here (probably not) who snagged the Transparent Violet Peavey Palaedium from Bass Direct for £400??
£400 for one of the finest passive 4 strings ever! Bloody unbelievable. Why they priced it so low I will never know - I'm still kicking myself for not spotting it sooner. They were made in three colours - Amber, Violet and Red. Violet is probably the rarest colour of an already rare bass, I'd have loved the opportunity to own a second one - someone will rightfully be feeling like a dog with two dicks, just a pity it's not me...
The tidy patterns on a bass neck will always be such a delight!
I’m happiest on four strings but I own a five too and have tried six and and sevens over the years and if you follow the patterns it doesn’t really matter how many strings there are.
I get why guitars aren’t tuned like this as their standard tuning makes chords much easier to play - but it does confuse me!
@pandhandj - now you’re spotted the octave pattern, have fun making everything sound disco! 😉
Was it somebody off here (probably not) who snagged the Transparent Violet Peavey Palaedium from Bass Direct for £400??
not me. i wouldnt have known what i was looking at even if i had seen it. just had a look now and even tho i dont know my basses yet, id probably still have been tempted to buy it. its a looker isnt it!
Nice looking bass that!
i agree, lovely pastel colour, one of my favourites.
On the E and A strings, if you play a note, lets say G on e-string (3rd fret) if you move 2 frets up and 2 strings up - thats a G too!
@pandhandj yep, same note just an octave higher. and have you also twigged that as the 5th fret on a string is exactly the same note as the next highest open string, then 6th is the same as fret 1, 7th is fret 2 etc etc?
and the 2 dots on the 12th fret signify that the fretboard 'starts again' from there?
If you use a desktop or laptop then download Chrome audio capture extension.
Find the song you want to play on YouTube. Use the playback speed function (settings icon bottom right of the screen) to set it to a tempo you're happy with. I generally found that 75% was usually pretty workable, and capture the audio as an MP3 file.
Open Moises and choose the split function and upload the file you've captured. The freebie version is a bit limited but you can split it to vocal/drums/bass/other . Once processed you can remix the four parts to suit, or simply isolate and export (download) the parts you want.
Limited, because the free version will only do five minutes max file length. If your chosen 75%tempo track exceeds five mins, then you can use a free DAW (I like audacity) to do the tempo stretching. So this time split a full speed track in Moises, download all 4 tracks as separate files, load them all into audacity and use the change tempo without altering pitch function to create your own personal backing track at the tempo you're happy with.
thought id have a play at this today as im trying to work out the correct bass line for dirty old town. songsterr goes down in tone, youtube vids go up. pretty sure im happy with how im playing it now but thought itd be interesting to see if i can split it for accuracy.
im struggling tho. i installed the audio capture extension. i set the song going on youtube and start recording with the extension. it asks me if it can use the microphone, i accept and i assume its recording. i get a bit of mic feedback from time to time which i dont mind as i think that must mean its working.
once its finished, i download the file. however, its not mp3, its webm. and when i upload to moises theres no song, its just blank, with the odd bit of mic feedback. tried twice now and you only get 5 uploads a month for free, so id better sort it out before i try again 😀
any idea why its not working? i dont get an option to save as mp3, all i get is a download file button and it is what it is.
EDIT: been googling and it suggests the extension should be opened on the same tab as the song. i try that tho and it just opens the extension in a separate tab, dont know if thats the issue?
Thanks, I hadn't noticed the ,5,6,7 fret pattern! I did know about 12th onwards though.
With the previous talk of LWTUA, I've just had some pics delivered. As expected, my strumming is awful. 🤣
I'd like to suggest Sabotage by the Beastie Boys as a wall of sound type of bass line...
and also any recommendations for a comfortable 4" strap, or something non-slip to prevent neck dive?
The gruvgear solo neo (or something like that) is 4" wide. A 4 inch strap is quite wide, it could possibly press into the neck if your shoulders aren't broad enough, I think Josh from bassbuzz uses that strap, but he is something like 6' 5"
I like levy's right height straps, easier to adjust than traditional straps, I have a leather 3.5" wide one, and certainly don't feel the need for anything wider. I just noticed they also do a comfort strap still 3.5" https://www.thomann.co.uk/levys_ultra_comfort_strap_325_bk.htm?__cTr=82678a7e-cb9a-4a25-891e-543d5bfc2686&shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiZ2IiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6NCwibGFuZ3VhZ2UiOjJ9&reload=1
FFS I wish I could just insert a link without a big picture advert appearing.
