You don't need faith to read words.
You have to appreciate that having faith would lead to a different interpretation - surely? This thread is ample evidence.
Anyhow look around you and answer some simple questions:
All very open questions in my opinion - as an atheist.
You have to appreciate that having faith would lead to a different interpretation - surely? This thread is ample evidence.
Yes it is, but it doesn't make the fairy tales any more real.
.. in your opinion.
religion - man's first attempt at explaining when we didn't know anything. like a baby covering its eye's thinking it can't be seen.
I actually don't think that's what it is. I think it's a nice story created about something that man didn't understand. I don't think the ancients were as stupid as you think they were.
Quakers and buddists don't seem to do this.
There is plenty blood on Buddhist hands in the far east. Quakers stuck at what they are good at, porridge.
The indisputable fact is that the adherents of each religion believe that their way is [b][u]THE[/u][/b] way. Inevitably that will lead to the view that other beliefs are wrong, which can easily lead to conflict. Religion is an effective way for men to control other men. And yes, in 99% of cases it is men. Women tend to get a bit of a raw deal in religion. Even a good chunk of Christianity believes that women aren't good enough to rise to the highest level, ergo that are not equal.
TL:DR - Athiests argue with each other over whose version of not believing in anything is the right one.
Really, it's a simple premise.
Can't you all not believe in the same thing?
LOL at perchy! the rare voice of sanity on this thread
Ancient people found ways to control people and remain in power. Religion was that tool, before Christianity came Romans, Greeks and the Norse gods Odin, Thor, Zeus etc. they had their place at the time and the death of those civilisations ended them.
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LOL at perchy! the rare voice of sanity on this thread and the only single person on the thread who has openly and explicity identified himself as a practicing Christian.
FTFY TJ!
How does this reconcile with your statement that all us religious types are irrational? 😉
I feel sorry for you and your blinkered views.
Don't, and if you think your views on religion make you better than me and you should fell sorry me I find that ofensive.
How does this reconcile with your statement that all religious types are irrational?
INRAT but even a broken clock is right twice a day.
molgrips - MemberI actually don't think that's what it is. I think it's a nice story created about something that man didn't understand. I don't think the ancients were as stupid as you think they were.
how the planet and the universe was created - the story is basically the same no matter what religion you look at. The ancients were not stupid, they were ignorant of what we currently know. Up until 1952 we didn't know DNA was responsible for the transfer of hereditary information. we were not stupid before then.
I don't really care what you find offensive. I thought I'd made that perfectly clear last time you claimed you were offended.
I was simply saying that if "all you can see" from all the religions of the world, is people building positions of power to abuse, then it must be a bit shit to be you.
Personally, I see loads of good being done, and along with it, loads of bad too.
But I'm not blinkered, so I don't ignore the good to focus on the bad.
If you read the NT, you will find that Jesus spent a lot of time having a go at religious leaders for their behaviour. As I've said before on another religion bashing thread, it's human nature that leads to war, intolerance etc. All He asks is for us to love our God and love our neighbour. All other morals/rules to live by hang off of that. If we tried to live our lives this way, there would be no issues. People will cherry pick what they want to suit their own opinions/prejudices. Whether you believe in God or not, treating others as you would want to be treated is a pretty good way to live your life. Pretty simple really. 🙂
then it must be a bit shit to be you.
Dear me Neal, how does it feel to be someone who comes out with insults like that?
All He asks is for us to love our God and love our neighbour
and there lies in a problem - god is imaginary and my neighbour is a **** lol
Perchy - that has TRAP written all over in in large letters. I am going to turn the other cheek and run away
I am going to turn the other cheek and run away
😆
Can't run away after the trap is sprung
Whether you believe in God or not, treating others as you would want to be treated is a pretty good way to live your life. Pretty simple really.
And that's where religion falls down. It sets people up to subjugate others. Inquisitions, ISIs, Crusaders, la Marche pour Tous have power based on submission. Submit to their doctrine and even their presence at you peril. There is no compromise, give them a bit of slack and as they're control freaks they'll start messing up your life.
Gotta agree with Edukator there.
And that's where religion falls down. It sets people up to subjugate others. Inquisitions, ISIs, Crusaders, la Marche pour Tous have power based on submission. Submit to their doctrine and even their presence at you peril. There is no compromise, give them a bit of slack and as they're control freaks they'll start messing up your life.
Gosh, I missed the subliminal messages in the Vicar of Dibley.
It's a tool for subjugating people, in the same way that a breadknife is a murder weapon. It's up to the user.
You can subjugate people with other things too. See communist Europe and Russia - they were secular.
There is plenty blood on Buddhist hands in the far east.
And guess what the common denominator is in most sectarian conflicts involving buddhists? An Abrahamic religion, that almost invariably has problems with every other religion on the planet? Can you guess which one that is yet?
I'll help you.
Christian vs Buddhist violence - generally unheard of
Sikh vs Buddhist violence - generally unheard of
Jew vs Buddhist violence - nil, not enough to interact with them.
Admitedly, Buddhists seem to like killing communists as well.
If they just stayed at home and did their worship in private I would have no issue.
To be fair, they broadly do these days. The JWs are the poster-boy arsepains, but I've not had any them on my doorstep in forever. I expect they finally realised that they tend not to get a very high conversion rate in a largely Muslim neighbourhood.
Other than that it's really just the shouty "end of the world" nutters with microphones you get in city centres, and I don't think we can hold them as particularly representative.
I suppose the biggest potential issue in modern Britain with not keeping religion private is the symbiosis between Church and State, and offhand I'm not [s]holy[/s] wholly sure how much influence they still have for practical purposes.
You cannot see the evidence because you choose not to, the faith comes first then your mind will be open.
It doesn't matter how intelligent you are or how well you can translate ancient text, without the faith you will never see the clear evidence.The words themselves have no meaning, think of them like a magic spell if you like... with the key of faith in your heart the scriptures become a passageway to a new place.
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Dear me Neal, how does it feel to be someone who comes out with insults like that?
It's not an insult, it's an observation.
But either way, I'm fine with it.
Better than refusing to see the good in anything connected with religion just because of your own prejudices.
theocb - MemberThere is very clear evidence tbh but you choose not to see it, stop being narrow minded and the murky water will clear quickly
that's not being narrow minded - just imagine if all science was done like that, we would think that GM foods caused cancer or that immunisations caused autism.
Better than refusing to see the good in anything connected with religion just because of your own prejudices.
Musollini made the trains run on time as well (apparently).
Thus, fascism is actually a really good idea. Anyone who refuses to see this is a snowflake antifa commie pinko libtard with a remoaner and homosexualist agenda.
Did you notice the "apparently" in parenthesis?
That was my deeper point.
There is no good in religion. 😈
Yes. That's why I looked it up to see if it was in fact true. As obviously I'd heard it before but never knew if it was true or not.
There is good in religion, it's just that some people refuse to see it. Which is pretty sad.
In much the same way that there is obvious problems and contradictory points in the bible, but some people refuse to see them.
There is good in religion
that's not religion, its people.
that's not religion, its people.
You could say that's true of the bad things too, it's all still People.
Though, many organised religions are very good at giving bad people justification to do bad things or have questionable opinions.
... organised religions are very good at giving [s]bad[/s] good people justification to do bad things...
Also.
The JWs are the poster-boy arsepains, but I've not had any them on my doorstep in forever. I expect they finally realised that they tend not to get a very high conversion rate in a largely Muslim neighbourhood.
They have altered how they work and have shifted mostly to little book stands/stalls near train stations etc.
Presumably because they were running into problems getting people to go door to door after so many years of less than superb results.
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Have you tried reading something else? That works well for me with things I'm not interested in.
Presumably because they were running into problems getting people to go door to door after so many years of less than superb results.
I always wondered what their conversion rate was. It must be astonishingly low. I appreciate that their mandate is to "spread the word" rather than get people to fall in with them, but still.
I don't think it matters how many they convert - only that they try.
That's kind of what I was clumsily trying to say, yes. I was just curious as to how many people actually went on to join their flock. I mean, you cast your net wide enough, you must catch [i]some[/i] fish right?
The convert people mostly by indoctrinating children who are gullible enough to believe the nonsense they spread.
Given that they believe only a few thousand of them will actually be saved, the actual incentive must be to convert as few of us as possible whilst obeying the imperative to let us all know...
The convert people mostly by indoctrinating children who are gullible enough to believe the nonsense they spread.
That goes for most organised religions. Although "gullible" is being a little unfair to children. They are evolved to believe whatever bullshit we (and other trusted figures of authority) feed them, especially if reinforced at school and by regular visits to a church/synagogue/mosque/temple.
The numbers of adult converts to (the big organised) religion(s) is dwarfed by the numbers forced into it by indoctrination from childhood. I wonder why that is.
This is largely US-centric, but it reckons 3 baptisms (ie, conversions) per year for every 100 JW publishers (canvassers).
https://priceonomics.com/jehovahs-witnesses-a-case-study-in-viral-marketing/
