[Closed] Anyone for another religion thread?

Evidence of faith most certainly requires faith, you will never see any evidence of faith unless you have faith kapishe? I think we are saying the same thing tbh

These discussions are always way more complicated than they need to be. Without faith you cannot interpret the scriptures so no point trying
With faith it all makes sense
Arguing about who said/wrote what and why is silly because the words are not important, it's the combination of words and faith that make the magic happen

Just like [s]the[/s] [i]a small proportion of[/i] religious people on geology trips.

Fixed that for you. Very few religious people are young Earth creationists.

....awkward evidence (yep the dinosaurs)

Just like the religious people on geology trips. You start by showing them molluscs... blah blah.

Isn't this sort of crap exactly what the article in the OP was actually about.

Fixed that for you. [b]Very few religious people are young Earth creationists.[/b]

The problem is , unlike American Beauty, they dont think its fiction.

Most of them do think it's allegorical though. This has been explained over and over again, by the people themselves. You don't seem to be listening though.

The religious never get called militant [ or intolerant] despite them all believing the only way to save my soul and avoid an eternity in hell is to follow the word of the book that even they dont believe all of

I know lots of religious people, most of whom know I'm an atheist, and none of them have EVER offered to save my soul, not once. A couple of people I met on the street have, but that's it.

You are cherry picking.

Isn't this sort of crap exactly what the article in the OP was actually about.

The TL;DR was that he compartmentalised it, filed it in a box marked "other" where regular physical laws didn't apply. The same thing that he did with subatomic physics. Hard to argue with that if I'm honest.

Non-overlapping magisteria, as Stephen Jay Gould called it

A YouGov poll, commissioned by Newman University in Birmingham, has found that 72% of atheists polled believe that someone who is religious would not accept evolutionary science.

That exact same incorrect assumption, repeated (as always) as quoted above in my last post. .

Now the eye of the needle bit. There are more signs of ostentatious wealth and greed in the church car park on Sunday morning than anywhere else in town.

Or 'a different epistemic category' as SaxonRider put it.

In my view there's nothing to exclude the existence of a god. There's plenty to doubt in the Bible, but that doesn't preclude there being a god. But in Christianity you are allowed to interpret the Bible. You may not think that is sensible, but Christians do. You can interpret it as allegory or literal fact if you want.

There are more signs of ostentatious wealth and greed in the church car park on Sunday morning than anywhere else in town.

I live in a church, there's no signs of ostentatious wealth on my drive.
(To be fair, it's not an "actual" church anymore, but the big colourful windows are very nice)

There are more signs of ostentatious wealth and greed in the church car park on Sunday morning than anywhere else in town.

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11979235/Muslims-and-Christians-less-generous-than-atheists-study-finds.html ]another study may well have the answer[/url] for that, start 'em young

Evidence of faith most certainly requires faith, you will never see any evidence of faith unless you have faith kapishe? I think we are saying the same thing tbh

These discussions are always way more complicated than they need to be. Without faith you cannot interpret the scriptures so no point trying
With faith it all makes sense
Arguing about who said/wrote what and why is silly because the words are not important, it's the combination of words and faith that make the magic happen

Well someone on this thread has been on the weed...

This is the most disturbing bit :

I think we are saying the same thing tbh

And you wonder why aetheists get angry...

So if religious people now believe:

The earth is at least 4.5 billion years old

Evolution from bacteria is where man originated

Rich people can go to heaven

Homosexualtity is fine

Abortion is fine

The pill is fine

Wars are fine and good even if religious leaders say so

Blessing tanks is fine

You can pick and choose your message from the Bible

The Bible isn't God's word except when it is

What's left?

What's left?

At least they can always rely on athiests thinking they know more about religion than they do ?

So if [b]SOME[/b] religious people now believe:

So if religious people now believe:

The earth is at least 4.5 billion years old

Evolution from bacteria is where man originated

Rich people can go to heaven

Homosexualtity is fine

Abortion is fine

The pill is fine

Wars are fine and good even if religious leaders say so

Blessing tanks is fine

You can pick and choose your message from the Bible

The Bible isn't God's word except when it is

What's left?

You're assuming that all religious people have the same beliefs, again.

You're assuming that all religious people have the same beliefs, again.

Well it'd be helpful if those religious folks would actually define what they do believe and then we'd all have space for a rational discussion. Strangely though they do seem to be rather reluctant to do so. I can't for the life of me think why that would be the case …

Well it'd be helpful if those religious folks would actually define what they do believe and then we'd all have space for a rational discussion. Strangely though they do seem to be rather reluctant to do so. I can't for the life of me think why that would be the case …

Each religion sets out their beliefs pretty clearly. Try looking on their website?

What's left?

That God created the universe
That God loves you
That God sent his son to die for your sins
That God want you to be nice to each other

Etc etc. Maybe read the bible again and try and figure some more stuff out? Tell us what you think it means.

Each religion sets out their beliefs pretty clearly. Try looking on their website?

At least they can always rely on athiests thinking they know more about religion than they do ?

we know enough to dismiss its importance. If someone could show us some concrete evidence of something interesting, then maybe we would investigate.

Now the eye of the needle bit. There are more signs of ostentatious wealth and greed in the church car park on Sunday morning than anywhere else in town.

Hadn't realized Honda Jazzes were so aspirational.

we know enough to dismiss its importance.

So you are saying religion isn't important ?

Yup, so they can pick and chose as it suits them:

Call people to war ingnoring the bit about not killing people

See various churches and child-sex crimes

See various religions and colonialisation attrocities

See the Church and political despots

That God want you to be nice to each other

Read the Bible from end to end and get back to me on that one, Molgrips.

All I can see is people using religious ideas to build postions of power they then abuse, ruthlessly oppressing any form of contestation. This takes place at every level from the parish to the Vatican, from Luton to Saudi Arabia, from Wall Street to Palestine.

There may well be something that started this all, as in big bang in their petri dish, but there surely isn't some god that looks over us and controls our lives, and demands worship and can respond to prayers.

And if there is, then he/she is a sick psychopath that doesn't deserve worship - take that eye worm example in the video - what was the point of creating that - the child is an 'innocent' so why punish him like that, and if you are 'testing' him then why not just make him blind by some other means, instead of send a little worm to eat his eyeball out from the inside - it's like some torture scene from Star Trek...

All I can see is people using religious ideas to build postions of power

If that's really all you can see, I feel very sorry for you and your blinkered view.

Each religion sets out their beliefs pretty clearly. Try looking on their website?

Even a simple question like which parts of the bible are allegorical and which aren't would elicit a different reply from christians, even within their own sect. So no, they really don't set out their beliefs clearly at all.

ginefishin former alter boy and reformed catholic.

we know enough to dismiss its importance.

So you are saying religion isn't important ?

it shouldn't be but unfortunately it is because of lot of deluded people who can't accept there is nothing else for them when they die do cr8p that influences my life.

If they just stayed at home and did their worship in private I would have no issue.

I feel very sorry for you

Don't, I don't need your pity. The idea you think that religion make you better than me and you should feel sorry for me I find offensive.

All I can see is people using religious ideas to build postions of power they then abuse, ruthlessly oppressing any form of contestation. This takes place at every level from the parish to the Vatican, from Luton to Saudi Arabia, from Wall Street to Palestine.

Not all religions but the abrahamic ones tend to be bad at this and Hindu can and often is used in this way. Don't think the Buddhists / Quakers, sikhs do this

Have a look at the history of India, TJ.

If that's really all you can see, I feel very sorry for you and your blinkered view.

It's not all, because these persuasive and charismatic people that see the opportunity to exercise power need more gullible people to persuade.

Other people use religion for the social aspect and the sense of belonging to something. And some do charitable work in the name of religion, but it doesn't require religion to cause people to act like this.

The funny thing about this thread is I am in agreement with Junkyard and Edukator !

Edukator - Reformed Troll

Have a look at the history of India, TJ.

Educate me? I thought the sikhs were basically defensive, it was the muslims and hindus that were the aggressors. I'll have a look tho

Evidence of faith most certainly requires faith, you will never see any evidence of faith unless you have faith kapishe? I think we are saying the same thing tbh

Not so, that's just circular logic. I, without faith, can see that your posts are forms of evidence that you do have faith.

These discussions are always way more complicated than they need to be. Without faith you cannot interpret the scriptures so no point trying

You don't need faith to read words. You could readily be a leading theologian and without believing a word of it. You might as well argue that you can't understand The Lord of the Rings because you aren't a hobbit.

Non-overlapping magisteria

I hadn't come across that before, thanks for that.

Not all religions but the abrahamic ones tend to be bad at this and Hindu can and often is used in this way. Don't think the Buddhists / Quakers, sikhs do this

How sodding ignorant can someone be

You don't need faith to read words. You could readily be a leading theologian and without believing a word of it. You might as well argue that you can't understand The Lord of the Rings because you aren't a hobbit.

Anyhow look around you and answer some simple questions:

"Is religion a force for good or for evil as witnesed by what you see and associate it with?"

"Through history has religion caused suffering or has it prevented it?"

"Has religion contributed to progess or done its best to prevent it?"

"If we follow religious doctrine now where will it lead us? And if we don't?"

Well, back from the ride. First exploration and it turned out to be downhill/no way through/back uphill.

Good though. Proves that I'm (like the tea on the Heart of Gold) almost but not quite, completely unlike someone who's not too old for this malarkey...

Anyway. Looked eagerly through the thread for theocb's claimed evidence that a god exists and found:

theocb - Member
@Mrwopsit. You are still trying to over complicate the simplicity of faith.

You cannot see the evidence because you choose not to, the faith comes first then your mind will be open.
It doesn't matter how intelligent you are or how well you can translate ancient text, without the faith you will never see the clear evidence.

The words themselves have no meaning, think of them like a magic spell if you like... with the key of faith in your heart the scriptures become a passageway to a new place.

Which is what I thought might be on offer after all. That is to say - a load of dimwitted gibberish.

Feel free to be offended, I really don't [s]care[/s] mind. 8)

mefty - Member

Not all religions but the abrahamic ones tend to be bad at this and Hindu can and often is used in this way. Don't think the Buddhists / Quakers, sikhs do this

How sodding ignorant can someone be

By the tone and content of your posts very 🙂 Abrahamic religions tend to accumulate wealth and power greatly. I accept sikhism is not as benign as that could be read as. Quakers and buddists don't seem to do this.

Look at stuff like the hoarding of wealth by the christian churches in Europe. The perrsecution of the palestinians in the middle east. The actions of many Islamic sects worldwide.

Lots and lots of examples of religions accumulating wealth and power and using this wealth and power to act in very unpleasant ways. From the crusades to Blairs "god told me to do it" To RC fobbidding the use of contraception

Edit - oh flip - what am I doping still commenting on this thread. It won't end well

what am I doping

...has, I think, always been the question on folks lips.

😉

You don't need a knowledge of history to understand your ignorance - are you not aware of what is going on in Myanmar?

Don't, I don't need your pity. The idea you think that religion make you better than me and you should feel sorry for me I find offensive.

You can find whatever you like offensive. I'm not too bothered either way.

Your incorrect assumption that I'm religious is probably your main issue here though.
And your incorrect assumption that I believe religion makes anyone better/worse than anybody else may also be causing you some confusion.

As I said, I feel sorry for you and your blinkered views.