Forum menu
Western governments recognise Israel is at war, but are urging restraint.
Countries go to war with countries, not terrorist organisations.
Terrorists hide amongst civilians so the only way to get rid of them is to remove the civillian population. Which is what we are seeing. Murder and displacement of innocent people and terrorists with little to no effort to discriminate between the two.
The question is if it's not ethnic cleansing then what is it? And what does Gaza look like after it's done? Do the Palestinians move back or will Gaza simply become Isreal?
Yes because anything other than outright hatred for Israel means I want children to be killed. Good grief it must be really easy when everything is black and white.
Maybe you’d get on alright with Hamas – they’re intolerant of divergent opinions as well and also dislike Israel.
I don’t dislike Israel. I dislike the Israeli government and their tactics. This isn’t black and white at all and nobody is claiming it is. You have made your position quite clear. By agreeing with most western governments you are okay with what is currently happening in Gaza.
Pray tell how Hamas are that different to the far right Israeli government. They are as bad as each other and innocents will continue to suffer as a result.
This is an intereting thread from Twitter. It follows from the first line - "wanting revenge is understandable; seeking revenge is a mistake"
https://twitter.com/Judah_Grunstein/status/1712754451260268581?s=20
Wow.
Comparing the Warsaw uprising against the occupying Nazi military force as 'the same as' Hamas uprising against predominantly civilians and the atrocities that followed - no, doesn't stack up to me. Is it anti-semitic to compare the two, that official definition might point at it but I'm honestly not that convinced by the definition. But, it is what it is.
But other parts, creating the conditions that led to this horrific response - much as it pains me to say it I do see parallels. Whether the intent (to eradicate a race/religion/nation) is the same or not, some of the tactics are similar and hence it's possible to say the some of the thing they are doing are the same as the Nazis did without necessarily saying they're the same as / as bad as the Nazis. Label the act, not the actor.
I can absolutely see why Hamas has decided to act, while at the same time utterly condemning the actions they took.
I don’t think anyone can answer that question definitively.
I think we can say definitively that Palestinians will never be allowed to return to northern Gaza if Israel succeed in taking it.
Wow.
Comparing the Warsaw uprising against the occupying Nazi military force as ‘the same as’ Hamas uprising against predominantly civilians and the atrocities that followed – no, doesn’t stack up to me.
No one made that point tho. alpins point was quite clear.
And what does Gaza look like after it’s done? Do the Palestinians move back or will Gaza simply become Isreal?
Are you familiar with what happened in Sinai or Southern Lebanon?
EDIT. Makes no sense now that the post I was responding to has gone.
Are you familiar with what happened in Sinai or Southern Lebanon?
Somewhat, but I'm not sure if those examples apply here.
I struggle to see how the population of Gaza can remain in Gaza, and yet there is literally nowhere for them to go unless the international community decide to accept 2.3 million refugees.
it’s wildly antisemitic. It’s not “an ethnic group” – it’s the Jews.
Sorry I have no idea what you are talking about the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto were an ethnic group, in the same way that the Palestinians in Gaza are an ethnic group.
There is nothing "wildly anti-semitic" about saying that. And if you claim it is then that pretty much sums up just how casual you are when it comes to throwing allegations of anti-semitism around.
@colournoise That was a very Livingstonesque explanation of why someone might have brought up the Warsaw ghetto uprising in opposition to the targeted killing of Jewish civilians. You haven’t made it acceptable.
So, are we aiming for 5 pages of discussion about whether a single sentence was antisemitic?
But it is always the case though, isn't it?
Cause a distraction by shouting "anti-semitism" in the hope that everyone will stop talking about Israel and the horrors that the Palestinians people have to face on a day-to-day basis.
No one made that point tho. alpins point was quite clear.
With respect - claiming there are parallels without actually saying what the parallels are is not clear. Hence the point of my post. Some posters seem to have interpreted as the extreme end (which it isn't) as a way of refuting the point. Others, me included, point out the points where there are clear similarities.
The rest is then both sides refusing to acknowledge that both viewpoints can be true. How very STW
Whilst you're getting caught up on that @benos (wrongly IMO) Israel is bombing civilians trying to use the "safe route" that Israel told 1.1 million people to flee down.
Your focus is in the wrong place.
I don't think I can continue to express any support for Israel on this thread. I've been called a racist 3 times, received endless hostile "why do you support innocent children being killed" questions and had to watch the weird spectacle of people dance on the head of a pin to explain why it's cool to bring up the Nazis in what is a very Jewish context
I'll say it again, my views are very much mainstream moderate western opinion. There is no space for that here.
You haven’t made it acceptable.
Haven't stated that was my aim (it isn't). Saying I've failed in that is nothing other than you assuming what my motives are.
A few pages back, I merely said I didn't understand why it was immediately jumped on as anti-semitic.
While I possibly now have a better understanding of your response to the post, that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
FWIW, I think that both Hamas and the Israeli government are acting more than a bit shittily, and both are (illegally and immorally) using civilians as weapons in their conflict. I also think that there are more than a few relevant historical parallels we could draw on to learn from, even if the current protagonists in Gaza clearly have no interest in doing so...
Your views are the same as those expressed by the majority of Western governments. They seem fine with the mass killing of innocents as per my previous post re: Grant Shapps. That’s not the same as the opinion of westerners. You’re welcome to your views and for what it’s worth I’ve not called you a racist. You’ve accused me and others of antisemitism though and suggested I’d get on well with Hamas so there is that.
I’ll say it again, my views are very much mainstream moderate western opinion.
Not so sure. I would say I'm a pretty moderate westerner. The views you've posted here do not speak to me.
I’ll say it again, my views are very much mainstream moderate western opinion.
Not so sure. I would say I’m a pretty moderate westerner. The views you’ve posted here do not speak to me.
That very much reminded me of this;
Thank goodness, finally some Tory MPs asking for the brakes to be applied and warning of the legal consequences for Sunak and his warmonger cabinet.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gaza-war-crimes-uk-rishi-sunak-b2429728.html
I’ll say it again, my views are very much mainstream moderate western opinion. There is no space for that here.
I think you are confusing politicians with mainstream moderate opinion.
No one is saying hamas shouldnt be held to account but its the approach taken that people are opposing.
The answer to innocents being killed on one side isnt even more innocents being killed on the other.
Whilst you’re getting caught up on that @benos (wrongly IMO) Israel is bombing civilians trying to use the “safe route” that Israel told 1.1 million people to flee down.
The bombing that upon closer inspection has all the hallmarks of an IED planted under the road, and is therefore way more likely to be a Hamas attempt to draw international condemnation of Israel?
Excellent article, yes it's the Daily Mail but worth reading.
The bombing that upon closer inspection has all the hallmarks of an IED planted under the road, and is therefore way more likely to be a Hamas attempt to draw international condemnation of Israel?
Please post your professional qualifications and experience to back up that assertion.
Benos NO ONE MADE THAT COMPARISON! Stop with the invented stuff FFS
Its really quite clear what alpins post was - and your equating of the ordinary palestinian civilian which is what alpin reffered to, with Hamas is a classic canard
I said a few pages back that anyone slinging offensive accusations against anyone speaking up against the Israeli action against civilians would be reported so I’ve done just that. You know it is possible to talk about this without calling people racists or anti-semites.
Enough.
Any attempt to start a new thread and it will be closed with a possible ban for the person starting it. <br /><br />