But it is okay to use the circle gesture! I even quoted the relevant passage from people with a hell of a lot more knowledge and skin in the game than you do.
Gutted to see last night that my constituency is being predicted to go tory in the election. We've had a really hard-working (or so it seems) labour MP who has been vocal in Westminster for the benefits of the area and she is predicted to be beaten by a girl who has been outed as a racist and someone who has publically put on her facebook that anyone on benefits should be shot.
Labour can stick in their current direction as long as they like (I support most of their policies), but until they find a way to get into power it is meaningless. I don't think that waiting till next GE after the brexit hits the fan and everyone feels the squeeze will make a blind bit of difference as so man people equally blame Corbyn for what is/has happened.
On that note, the tories plan to repeal the fixed term parliment act - what replaces it or do we go back to the previous way?
I've listened to the Jonathan Ashworth recording on Guido Fawkes and I'm not sure it's going to do Labour much harm: Firstly many people have already postal voted. Secondly the big problem for the Torys is if it looks like a done deal people just aren't going to turn out and vote Tory. ie: This 'banter' just increases the chances that unenthusiastic voters who are reluctantly willing to vote Blue to stop Corbyn won't turn out because they think Corbyn will lose anyway.
You can vote libdem.
Labour's campaign slogan since 2015.
Interesting times - a claim on social media that the photo of the little lad at LGI was 'staged' allegedly came from a hacked account, propagated onwards by a large number of low-follower accounts.
Despite the claim that the photo was staged having been acknowledged as false, it has continued to spread on both Facebook and Twitter, largely through individual low-follower accounts cutting and pasting the original text to share with their friends.(Guardian)
If someone in the civil service has a copy of the Russian Interference report and cares about their country, now would be a good time.
Haven't listened to the recording but seems like a sting - subject, timing, Ashworth's position and the discussion being recorded.
Having said that Ashworth was incredibly naive - Baron Barker of Battle is a committed tory, an election is looming, NHS is key focus, Ashworth is shadow health sec; what could possibly go wrong?
Hope oob is right about this having limited impact.
Cleverley was onto this quickly this morning; briefed by CCHQ?
We’ve had a really hard-working (or so it seems) labour MP who has been vocal in Westminster for the benefits of the area and she is predicted to be beaten by a girl who has been outed as a racist and someone who has publically put on her facebook that anyone on benefits should be shot.
Labour can stick in their current direction as long as they like (I support most of their policies), but until they find a way to get into power it is meaningless.
Solution - for Labour to out-racist the Tories?
martin hutch - editor of yorkshire post has jumped on that quickly and responded directly to some woman who contacted him trotting out the fake news allegation.
Google "circle gesture Question Time", Squirrelking
https://metro.co.uk/video/question-time-audience-member-caught-making-circle-game-gesture-2066646/
They all state that since 2017 the gesture is associated with race hate. You can't posssibly ignore that, Squirrelking, nor could the guy on Question Time when he used it in a debate in which Brexit (with all that implies in terms of xenophobia) is one of the main issues in people's minds. Nor could the JD expression user.
Most Labour MPs thinking Jeremy Corbyn is hopeless isn’t really news, is it?
Seeing as the overwhelming majority of them declined to support him in a vote of no confidence, that sort of sends out that message
BBC Politics Live.....'Mr Ashworth says the comments weren't serious and that he was trying to convince the person who recorded the conversation, a friend who is also a Conservative activist, that Tory attack lines were working'.
A conservative activist?
Try again. Former tory gov minister; now a tory life peer is more than just an activist.
Add to this 'In February 2019, Barker took a leave of absence from the House of Lords upon accepting an executive chairmanship position within En+ Group, a Russian company linked to the Russian oligarch on the U.S. sanctions list Oleg Deripaska. Barker was credited with having helped the Russian company to have the U.S. sactions lifted earlier that year, for which he was awarded a bonus of about 3 million to 4 million pounds ($3.9 million to $5.2 million) that he described as "relatively modest".
Deripaska usually described as being loyal and close to Putin.
Ashworth should choose his 'friends' more carefully.
Most Labour MPs thinking Jeremy Corbyn is hopeless isn’t really news, is it?
Seeing as the overwhelming majority of them declined to support him in a vote of no confidence, that sort of sends out that message
They're the same as you binners - they think he's unpopular therefore they are scared to show support - it's playground stuff.
FWIW I don't know anyone that ever took that white power thing seriously, obviously my generation are just dog whistle racists in your world and we are the ones out of touch.
I'll take the word of the Anti Defamation League over theirs thanks.
They don’t think he’s unpopular. They know he is.
He has the lowest approval rating of any opposition leader ever recorded. And when you see that that includes Iain Duncan Smith, that’s quite some achievement
They’re not scared to show support, they’d just like a leader who was slightly more popular than a fart in a lift
The labour party will have to return to something resembling the real world at some point, just like it did in 97 under Blair. Though you and the rest of the sixth formers clearly want to see another decade+ of completely unopposed tory rule before thats allowed to happen. Hey it’ll be the 80’s all over again, seeing as it was so ****ing great last time around
Trained politician? You’re having a laugh aren’t you? People will warm to her precisely because she isn’t an oxbridge trained politician, and a real person who can relate to normal people. She’s also very straight talking, which people will also appreciate. All she requires is to be a little less abrasive.
In the interviews I have seen her in over the last month she has avoided questions in exactly the same way as 'trained' politicians and was not straight talking in any way whatsoever.
I put her into the same category as Swinson. The more people see her the less they will like her.
Party leaders don’t need to be likeable; they need to be credible – relatable would be a bonus.
Which one is is Johnson - credible or relatable?
He is likely to be winning.
I’ll take the word of the Anti Defamation League over uninformed idiocy thanks.
Selective quoting and understanding.
Err no. Not to suite you it won’t.
You can vote libdem.
FFS. Pushing people away Labour still?
People. Please vote Labour. Ignore the cultists. They are few but vocal.
On that note, the tories plan to repeal the fixed term parliment act – what replaces it or do we go back to the previous way?
There will be no need for future elections. Democracy stopped in 2016, remember?
My posts^^^ re Ashworth; wrong to refer to greg barker - it was greg baker.
Ah well.....
Still naive behaviour by Ashworth.
They’re not scared to show support,
Oh give over. We all know that not a single one of the blairite ****** were ever going to accept the fact that they stupidly handed over control of the party to the membership. And since then they’ve done everything they can to get it back, even stooping to smearing a lifelong anti-racism campaigner as an anti-semite because it suited their agenda.
Anyway, they’ll be gone if labour loses. It’ll result in a civil war and bloodletting like we’ve never seen as the left, with nothing left to lose, finally takes it’s revenge and kicks them out the party. Why do you think Watson walked? He got out before he was pushed. If blairite MPs thought they were being picked on before, then they’ve seen nothing yet.
They all state that since 2017 the gesture is associated with race hate.
Obviously we dont know the intent of the person on QT last night, but how if one is not a white supremacist would you know that the 30 year game played by children, teens and even adults has been taken up and is now a sign used by these people?
When I saw this trending this morning, it was the clip where the guy laughs and then shows the clip, I had assumed he was being praised for playing this game whilst on live TV, I had not a clue this was linked to white supremacy. I was aware the Christchurch killer had done the sign, but had filed this under what a cock to have committed this crime and then show no remorse and show the circle game sign.
The key here is context.
Indeed it is.
So under what context do you posit that a QT audience member - a show renowned for it's totally unbiased selection of candidates in the audience, let's not forget - is making a circle gesture below the waist with fingers pointing down in a manner which is intended to mean "OK"?
Hell, who even says OK like that any more? I don't think I've seen it since I was at school.
I'd never even heard of it being a thing before until this thread but purely from the photo posted and, yes, context I think it's fairly obvious what he meant by it. But yeah, maybe you're right and he's simply a Malcolm in the Middle fan or a misunderstood SCUBA diver on his day off.
Selective quoting and understanding and stealth editing. But Squirrelking's link is there for all to see and clearly contradicts his point of view. Not that I'd use the ADF as a source myself given their baggage.
And another to ponder:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/03/ok-sign-gesture-emoji-rightwing-alt-right
Beware the Cyclops
Why do you think Watson walked?
Wait, Tom Watson's gone? How on earth did I miss that?
Balls.
I didn't notice the "circle game" gesture during the show...
… but the whole family, including teenage offspring where dumbfounded by the audience make-up...
Our kids experience from school, work, college etc was that no way the audience represented the balance of views amongst their age group (audience included a lot of pro Brexit, Pro-Tory, right wing youth etc)
Given the context of a (suspected) unrepresentative audience, then a darker meaning to the gesture could well be correct
Anyway, they’ll be gone if labour loses. It’ll result in a civil war and bloodletting like we’ve never seen as the left, with nothing left to lose, finally takes it’s revenge and kicks them out the party. Why do you think Watson walked? He got out before he was pushed. If blairite MPs thought they were being picked on before, then they’ve seen nothing yet..
Could you talk us through how kicking out all the moderates (who are the only ones with any obvious ability) in some far left coup is going to make voting for the labour party more appealing to anyone who's politics have developed slightly further than common room placard-waving?
Or (and I think I know the answer to this one already) does that not really matter, as getting elected is a bourgeois construct?
Could you talk us through how kicking out all the moderates
I never said I support it, it's just obviously what's going to happen (I'm an observer BTW as I've never been a labour member or been active in labour campaigns). In an ideal world the blairite MPs would have respectfully accepted that their time was up (after two election defeats), and got behind the rest of the party. They didn't even have to support it, they could have just gone back to their constituencies and carried on campaigning on local issues like most backbenchers do. They didn't do that though did they? Instead they spent their time doing the tories job for them by disgracefully smearing Corbyn as an anti-semite and jumping on whatever hysterical bandwagon passed by. Well rightly or wrongly it's not going to be forgotten, and they will have only themselves to blame.
Wait, Tom Watson’s gone? How on earth did I miss that?
Really? Where've you been?
When the same person is reguarly sexist, thinks it’s OK to use the circle gesture and the JD expression it’s not nasty to point it out.
The member in question has been around for only 4 weeks, until there is any eveidence to the contrary I’ll take his stories with a pinch of salt, object to his sexism and argue against the use of JD and the circle symbol being “innocent” on 10/12/2019.
The key here is indeed context. The context of the QT interview was one of racists being racist. The context of this forum is one of an Internet in which alt-right trolls and bots are doing their utmost to influence an election result. If you think STW is immune, think again.
Lol. think you better go have a lie down pal.
The guy on QT could very well have been making a white power sign or trolling to that effect. He could also just as easily been making a circle sign below his waist as per the game so he can go home and give his flatmate a dead arm as he no doubt watched his appearance on tv. Best to reserve the hate and wishing him out of a uni course or job before the end of the week until proof is provided.
This mindset you have where your own assumtions can replace any evidence or due process is frankly disturbing. You then use this as justification to launch witch hunts and pile ons when in reality you know **** all. I think you are well past the point of no return though, so there is very little benefit to engaging with you any further.
Daz - I'm just checking, but you do know that in a democracy you actually need to appeal to enough of the population for them to vote for you?
I don't know if you remember the 80's fondly, but at the time this wasn't a great look, electorally-speaking, for the Labour Party, so trying to recreate it would seem somewhat ill-advised
I’m just checking, but you do know that in a democracy you actually need to appeal to enough of the population for them to vote for you?
The difficulty is selling yourself out and having policies you don't even believe in but may win and would not be as bad as the tory policies. It is then getting the balance right in how far you have to go towards the tory policies to get the votes and then you just end up with another party similar to the tory party with a different name, brilliant.
The guy on QT could very well have been making a white power sign or trolling to that effect. He could also just as easily been making a circle sign below his waist as per the game so he can go home and give his flatmate a dead arm as he no doubt watched his appearance on tv.
Whilst this is factually correct of course, would you suggest that those two possibilities are equally likely?
Daz – I’m just checking, but you do know that in a democracy you actually need to appeal to enough of the population for them to vote for you?
Well of course he does, that was his excuse for supporting Corbyn's stancefudge on brexit. apparantly if the racists were not appeased then labour could never win, funny that dazh has abandoned that logic on all other principles.
so there is very little benefit to engaging with you any further.
Excellent, Squirrelking promised me that years ago but has never kept the promise.
Whilst this is factually correct of course, would you suggest that those two possibilities are equally likely?
Yes, it's almost certainly one or the other. All I've got to go off is a photo on social media, he looks young enough it could be a daft studenty game he is playing. I certainly wouldn't be ready to burn him at the stake for it. If there was anything sinister about it, I'm sure the police will be investigating, I imagine there will be dozens of compaints made by now. Why are you so keen on social media (mob) justice?
he looks young enough it could be a daft studenty game he is playing.
Sure, best possibility there is he is, in fact, an idiot.
Why are you so keen on social media (mob) justice?
I'm not, I'm just not keen to jump to the opposite conclusion because it suits my agenda either.
Yes, it’s almost certainly one or the other. All I’ve got to go off is a photo on social media, he looks young enough it could be a daft studenty game he is playing.
Given there are a gazzilion students and almost no white supremacists I'd say the overwhelming likelihood is the gesture was totally innocent.
If it wasn't innocent we'll be finding out very soon because his image has gone viral.
EDIT: I've just seen the image. If I were someone who judged by appearances I'd say "He looks the sort.". Fortunately I'm not so I'll leave my comments above to stand. 🙂
BBC have had problems with QT producer involved in audience selection spreading far right propaganda before, so there is a suspicion about anything along those lines in the show
The fact that it has featured so many Eurosceptic MEPs & virtually no pro EU ones also raises questions
spreading far right propaganda
They shared an image of a Poppy on FB! (...and you've just shared a link to the same post on STW!)
I’m not, I’m just not keen to jump to the opposite conclusion because it suits my agenda either.
You’re doing it wrong… you are supposed to say everyone is a moron, a sucker, or something like that.
I’m not, I’m just not keen to jump to the opposite conclusion because it suits my agenda either.
Yet you never questioned the initial conclusion jump that he was a white supremacist? Never questioned the post hoping he will now be out of a job/uni?
What do you think my agenda is in raising the good possibility that he might not be doing what some people were quick to assume as fact?
I'm calling bullshit on the White Supremacist thing.
Has anyone watched the QT episode?
The bloke in question applauds Humza Yussef and doens't clap when pro brexit points are made.
If he is a White Supremacist he is a pretty shit one
What do you think my agenda is in raising the good possibility that he might not be doing what some people were quick to assume as fact?
I supplied the link explaining the many possible nuances… you just called anyone pointing out the 2019 political in context version a moron.
The bloke in question applauds Humza Yussef and doens’t clap when pro brexit points are made.
Interesting. Thanks Rich.
