I’m just checking, but you do know that in a democracy you actually need to appeal to enough of the population for them to vote for you?
I know what democracy isn't, and that's appealling to enough billionaires to get them and their friends in the print and broadcast media to prevent them making up slanderous lies about you. If that's your entire solution for the labour party then they've already lost, because the policies will have been watered down to such an extent that nothing will change.
Democracy is not pleading for a few scraps from billionaire tax evaders, it's seizing the power from them and forcing them to pay their fair share. I really don't see what is so 'hard left' about that.
Labour’s problem (well, part of it) is they didn’t call out the lies of the 2016 campaign, for fear of labelling voters as stupid for not seeing through the lies. They now have no way of countering Johnson’s team as they double down on the lies in 2019.
This campaign is the 2016 one repeated… big spend on targeted lies on social media… promise money for the NHS that won’t materialise… tell people Brexit will be quick and simple… throw in some lines about filthy foreigners being allowed to “treat this country like it is their home”… keep things simple and vague so as to appeal to voters’ contradictory desires… “it’ll all be different and better than the status quo (which we created)”.
Anyone see 'Corbyn reads mean tweets'?
Tweet: Free university for everyone? Who's going to pay for this? Corbyn still thinks there's a magic money tree!
Corbyn: Yeah, there is. In the Cayman Islands.
He may not be the best opposition leader but he's much funnier than Binners.
The bloke in question applauds Humza Yussef
Humza Yussef is a Nationalist.
Case proven.
Labour’s problem (well, part of it) is they didn’t call out the lies of the 2016 campaign
Labour's main problem is that they don't appeal to labour any more. What used to be described as the working class are moving away from Labour in their traditional strongholds. Young people are replacing them but a)there aren't yet enough of them and b) they haven't historically voted.
Stick any front person you like in there, any manifesto. You are still battling demographics.
He may not be the best opposition leader but he’s much funnier than Binners
Surely we can set the bar a little higher than that.
Daz - you do realise that there's a whole world between the unfettered, unregulated free-market capitalism being offered by the present Tory party and your solution of revolutionary 'to the barricades' socialism
What you call 'selling out' other people refer to as 'compromise'.
And this country is in the mess that its in at the moment, and our choices at this election look particularly bleak, largely because compromise and pragmatism are two things that both sides of the political spectrum have completely rejected.
Perfect circle game placement, at the waist so to not break the in line of sight rule nor the above the shoulders rule. Out of the genital area so that the other guy trying to get the +5 doesn't accidentally damage you . Casually resting on his body so that its not too obvious and people around cant get you for a +5 from behind. I'm a 90s kid, is there nobody else that played that game?
The white power sign is meant to be the other way round. The three fingers make a W, and the circle and your wrist a P.
Even if it was the white power sign, you could have all ignored it and not fed the trolling.
Corbyn: Yeah, there is. In the Cayman Islands.
Labour have no plan to get hold of any of that cash: Only one mention of Tax Havens in the Labour Manifesto and zero mention of any plan to aquire it. (Maybe that's not true, he's been saying for 40 years that we should leave and end free movement of people and capital which *would* help him aquire resources that currently end up abroad - but not the Cayman Islands which aren't in the EU.)
It's just Dunning-Kruger - he thinks it's easy because he knows nothing about Tax Policy.
Humza Yussef is a Nationalist.
Case proven.
A Scottish Nationalist.
He's a Pale-Blue Supremacist
Even if it was the white power sign, you could have all ignored it and not fed the trolling.
Like you have?
He’s a Pale-Blue Supremacist
Putting burning porridge crosses on people's lawns.
Labour’s main problem is that they don’t appeal to labour any more. What used to be described as the working class are moving away from Labour in their traditional strongholds.
Agree. One day those people will wake up and realise voting tory may not have been their best bet but that's democracy.
Daz – you do realise that there’s a whole world between the unfettered, unregulated free-market capitalism being offered by the present Tory party and your solution of revolutionary ‘to the barricades’ socialism
What you call ‘selling out’ other people refer to as ‘compromise’.
What kind of compromise policies would be in your perfect manifesto?
I'm not convinced the current Labour manifesto could be described as "‘to the barricades’ socialism" when nearly every part of it is happening in other countries (many in Europe) that wouldn't be called socialist countries.
Daz – you do realise that there’s a whole world between the unfettered, unregulated free-market capitalism being offered by the present Tory party and your solution of revolutionary ‘to the barricades’ socialism
What you call ‘selling out’ other people refer to as ‘compromise’.
The "compromise" led to PFI hospitals and Iraq last time around. Exactly what did the right compromise on? They let me keep a pot to piss in - I suppose I should be grateful.
Yet you never questioned the initial conclusion jump that he was a white supremacist?
I didn't jump to that conclusion either. I assumed that either that is indeed what he intended or it was a stupid troll that's blown up in his face, my point was simply that going "it means OK" is probably the least likely possibility out of the available options.
Never questioned the post hoping he will now be out of a job/uni?
I missed that post, and wouldn't wish that outcome on (almost) anyone. Do I have to question everything in order to win my Mass Debaters 2019 badge?
I’m not convinced the current Labour manifesto could be described as “‘to the barricades’
Saying you'll nationalise all the water and power companies within your first 100 days in government, as John MacDonnel did yesterday, but that'll you'll be the ones deciding what you'll be paying for them is quite 'to the barricades' in most peoples book.
Saying you’ll nationalise all the water and power companies within your first 100 days in government, as John MacDonnel did yesterday, but that’ll you’ll be the ones deciding what you’ll be paying for them is quite ‘to the barricades’ in most peoples book.
The actual quote is:
‘In our first 100 days we will start the processes of bringing water and energy into public ownership.
when nearly every part of it is happening in other countries
The only places I can think of that have done any significant nationalization in recent years are Zimbabwe and Venezuela.
The EU are going in the opposite direction with 4th Railway package:
http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/eu-seals-mass-rail-privatisation/
I’m not, I’m just not keen to jump to the opposite conclusion because it suits my agenda either.
I have no agenda here, but having played that game and knowing people that still play it to wind each other up I can see the other argument as being far more likely. This just seems to be people leaping to conclusions based on nothing.
Selective quoting and understanding and stealth editing. But Squirrelking’s link is there for all to see and clearly contradicts his point of view. Not that I’d use the ADF as a source myself given their baggage.
It was a bit lengthy to quote the lot, perhaps you could post the section that contradicts my point of view?
As for baggage, you stick to your "sources" (Urbandictionary - LOL) and I'll stick to mine.
revolutionary ‘to the barricades’ socialism
Expecting billionaires and corporations to pay their tax is not revolutionary socialism. It's very middle of the road regulated capitalism. It's what provided a decent quality of life for everyone in the postwar period, and all it requires is not the destruction of capital and ownership of the means of production, but some sensible policies around taxation, investment, and the top-down redistribution of wealth.
Pretty extreme stuff I'm sure you'll agree...
Labour have no plan to get hold of any of that cash
I don't think that's what he was saying. Just a dig at the fact that billionaires use tax havens to create money for themselves.
The EU are going in the opposite direction with 4th Railway package:
I only have experience using Swiss Rail and SNCF, and both have been excellent. From the article you linked (which by it's title is never going to be balanced!) but still:
“Railway privatisation in the UK was a laboratory experiment that was designed in the EU.
“It has been an expensive failure which continental governments would be foolish to imitate. “Separating trains from track and privatising train companies to set up liberalised and allegedly competitive rail operations has been massively expensive to taxpayers and passengers.
“We have the highest fares in Europe and we know all about the taxpayer subsidies,” he said.
Can you honestly disagree with that?
Expecting billionaires and corporations to pay their tax is not revolutionary socialism.
Indeed it isn't. Thats why I didn't even suggest that it was. It makes perfect sense and good luck to them. Who wouldn't want that. I doubt its going to be simple though
But confiscating private assets is very much revolutionary socialism. And while it sounds great in theory, the practical immediate implications of it, seeing as we're still part of a globalised economy, would be serious and long term.
Ask the people in Venezuela how its working out for them?
I couldn't care less what the sign means, I find it hilarious how even knowing that you are being played you still play into it. I don't mean this specific instance, I mean the events which led to this symbol being considered white power, and the perpetuation of such.
If he is doing the circle game, well fair play, I've seen under 25s (thats what he looks like) do far dumber things for a laugh. If he is an actual racist, well what a retard for being a racist and what a retard for announcing it in national TV.
What does concern me is how happily people would cause a witch hunt on this guy. Something that would have an unpredictable effect on him.
I wonder which bit of my post will be quoted for the gotcha moment.
Meanwhile, Japans rail network relies on no subsidies whatsoever and shits all over even the best European rail networks.
Could it be, that we’re just a nation of outright incompetents?
Japans railways had massive public investment from the 50's to the end of the 80's when it was privatised. The privatised companies inherited the worlds best railways built with public money. And while they may be known for efficiency, they are also known for a poor safety record, overcrowding and that it is rather too common for female passengers to be sexual assaulted. So pretty much on par with tory ideals.
Even if you are in favour of private railways (I’m not) the rush job that Major’s government pushed through is hard to support. Things still need sorting because of it. Even if we don’t slowly bring elements back into state ownership (a Labour policy that looks well thought out and has public backing well beyond the cultists who tell us we’re not pure enough to vote Labour), it still needs addressing. What do the Conservative party say about it in their manifesto…?
What do the Conservative party say about it in their manifesto…?
Get Brexit done then we can invest in _____________ (insert vote winner here)
The only places I can think of that have done any significant nationalization in recent years are Zimbabwe and Venezuela.
Another expert on Venezuela! I hear private enterprise is alive and well in Somalia.
Closer to home water companies are being taken back into public ownership in France and Germany, to name but 2.
Ask the people in Venezuela how its working out for them?
It's going very well indeed.
https://www.ft.com/content/d107562c-35d9-11e9-bb0c-42459962a812
For the few, not the many.
Not sure Japan is a useful comparison? Culturally it has little in common with UK, and work culture also completely different.
Were UK trains lots better when they were publicly owned? I didn't think so but maybe my experience was unusual and they were much better as British rail in most places.
Could it be, that we’re just a nation of outright incompetents?
That's pretty racist.
The problem is to do with our institutions and working practices
.
Were UK trains lots better when they were publicly owned?
Was ANYTHING better in those times? Comparing how things were yonks ago with how they are today is comparing apples with ... umm ... pineapples?
Likewise the lazy "Venezuela" jibe - Venezuela is like it is as a result of a whole history that has got nothing to do with Britain or the British political scene.
Not sure about "better" but they were a lot less expensive and the whole operation was more efficient.
TLDR? Less lawyers.
Ask the people in Venezuela how its working out for them?
If you seriously think the labour party are proposing replicating the venezualuan system then you have been completely taken in by the propaganda. They're proposing nothing more than sensible state regulated free market capitalism. The fact that you think this is hard left is very illustrative.
Watch the video above and tell me if there's anything there you disagree with. That's basically what the labour party are aiming for. Even if they get halfway things will be a lot better, but the prerequisite is challenging the hegemony of the billionaire plutocrats, not cosying up to them so they'll print nice things in their newspapers about you.
https://twitter.com/centrist_phone/status/1204379703345393670?s=09
Centrist phone has revised to 4.45% lead for the Tories.
Interesting analysis.
"A 4.45% lead on polling day would be a 1% swing to Labour in Lab held seats. And a Lab minority govt"
They’re proposing nothing more than sensible state regulated free market capitalism
Yeah, that's my thoughts. The Labour plans still have capitalism folks! Lots and lots of it in fact.
To me, this is the compromise! This is the middle ground, socialism where it's needed and works best, capitalism where it doesn't.
Jesus - where not still comparing to Venezuela are we? Do some bloody reading.
An economy that's got both elements of private and state, that has been successful and damaged historically - and pegged to oil price - is not an example of socialism gone wrong.
To me, this is the compromise! This is the middle ground, socialism where it’s needed and works best, capitalism where it doesn’t.
What social democracy? As practised in more enlightened nations?
Nigel Farage in correct sentence shocker.
Nigel Farage has criticised Mr Johnson's Brexit deal, claiming it would lead to "years of agonising negotiations"
Rare enough to point out.
Centrist phone has revised to 4.45% lead for the Tories.
Interesting analysis.
“A 4.45% lead on polling day would be a 1% swing to Labour in Lab held seats. And a Lab minority govt”
Id love him to be right, but I dont as a nation think weve reached peak stupid yet, so itll be Bojo for 5 years followed by someone worse , Grayling?
The problem is to do with our institutions and working practices
Incompetent institutions require incompetents to be running them.
And maybe, we’re to used to having it good unlike Japan - which had to work hard to modernise in the Mid-late 18th century to keep western powers at bay and then rebuild after the war.
Nah, you can bake failure into the institutions. Not so much of a problem when failure doesn’t impact everyone and everything… a nightmare when it is a monopoly provider of a service set up by a government in a rush to prove its privatisation zeal before an election hits them.
Id love him to be right, but I dont as a nation think weve reached peak stupid yet, so itll be Bojo for 5 years followed by someone worse , Grayling?
Ha ha. And here's me thinking there wasn't anything else the Tories had in the lab...
