[Closed] Wide (780mm) bars on short (35mm) stem. Convert me.

Do persevere, but if it's not clicking try the 50mm stem with the wider bar initially, or the shorter stem with your old bar?

Got 40mm stem (it's what I had) and 785mm bar on my Solaris Max - spot-on for me.

Demo guy Sam runs a 760mm bar though. Are you smaller of stature?

Nah, I'm 6ft 1 (large frame).

I'll definitely persevere, it's just that I found the short stem so twitchy & nervous (actually that was me) and the bars gave my bingo wings a massive workout

How wide are your shoulders? Bar width is really about your body not the type of bike form my experience
Arms out straight and level then drop your hands so they hang loose from the elbow. Measure that width and see from. There

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/finding-your-sweet-spot-handlebar-width.html

Might shed some light for you. Don’t necessarily go wide just because everyone else is.

Edit - why won’t my links show?
Anyway, go to Pinkbike and search on Lee McCormack and handlebar width.

I like wide bars, each time I've bought new bars they've been we wider than the previous set.

Why not give it a couple of rides and see how you go after the forks are at the right length?

But if the bars you have work for you, I'd stick with them. It's about making the bike right for you, not conforming to an idea blindly

I’ve always found that once I’ve gone for a wider bar, narrower ones always feel too narrow afterwards, was worried the most recent one would be too wide at 800, but according to that PB calc I should be on 805 (6 feet tall), and after a quick spin, it feels ok

If the reach is longer on your new frame then it may be that you need to adjust your body position forward to weight the front wheel a little more if it feels too light.

I ran my Renthal Fatbar at 780mm stock for a few months. Liked it. Found it a bit wide for trails surrounded by trees. Cut it down to 760mm and haven't changed them since. Been pretty happy. Sometimes consider moving up.to 800mm so see how it feels.

Something that just hit me after writing the OP (in reference to the bars) is the angle my wrists are at. The Cotic straight bars are ..erm straight, whereas the Ragley Carnegies are tilting my hands inwards a few degrees. Previous to that I've always used On One Fleegles (again a subtle inward kink) and my Singular Rooster sports a Jones loop bar.

It may be that I'm having trouble adapting to the position the bars put my hands in rather than the width.

No expert but sounds like short forks are giving you a steep head angle and low front end. So too fast steering and too much weight in shoulders. Narrow bars might help weight bit will make it more twitchy, opposite for longer stem. So I'd get the bars as high as I could in the short term and just hope I don't actually die until I can get the forks sorted.

If the reach is longer on your new frame then it may be that you need to adjust your body position forward to weight the front wheel a little more if it feels too light.

I'll confess I ended up on the floor on the first steep corner when I initially swapped to a proper long bike.

For me it was just thinking "don't put your arse back" - and it clicked really quickly.

Fwiw I'm on a flaremax with the stock forks and recently gone back to 760 bars. I think it's better in the rough as you arms have more travel and getting the bikes over into corners. Worse in high speed corners and trackstands though!

seems like brants got a fairly low opinion to parts of that pink bike article

https://twitter.com/shedfire/status/1074788954677882880

Get the forks sorted. Also, try other means of raising the bars… spacers under the stem or whatever.

Wide bars don't necessarily correlate with wide shoulders. There really isn't any set rule for handlebar width; there a plenty of pro riders with pretty wide shoulders who run narrower bars and plenty with narrower shoulders who run wider bars. As an example, Rachel Atherton runs wider bars than Sam Hill.

I'm sceptical of absolutes on this issue after listening to advice from a magazine back in the late 80s that said handlebar width shouldn't be wider than your shoulders. Being a puny 13 year old at the time, I ended up with bars cut down to 500mms, then I used to wonder why the bike was so difficult to control on rocky descents.

Personally speaking, I find 800mm best for me, and my shoulders are not wide at all. The extra width over my old 750mm bars gives me more leverage to control the bike on techie, rocky stuff. I suspect that bigger, burlier riders can get away with narrower bars as they have more pure strength to compensate for the reduced leverage.

JP

Totally agree JP, don't trust anyone with a formula for MTB bike fitting - it's not settled enough for that kind of thing yet.

Trial and error is the best way, but do give the wide bar a decent go.

Brant seems easily pleased eh.

I hear ya. Forks are booked in (but as mentioned, awaiting the parts).

The steerer tube is uncut (until I get it where it's right) and currently riding with 25mm spacers under the stem (and with a lofty headset crown - actually 50mm from bottom of stem to top of frame head tube).

I'll keep it this way and see how things go a few rides in on the 120mm set forks.

Cheers

Up sweep and back sweeep are also important as you have identified along with rise and width. I do think it's personal preference to width, I find 760/770mm is my sweepspot so I stick to that. I tried a 32mm stem because the internet said super short stems were great, but for my riding style and bike, I didn't like it as much as a 40mm stem.

Also when you up the forks to 120mm it will slacken the bike out a touch so the steering won't be as twitchy.

Once you have done that, see if you can get a new wide bar with the up and back sweep of your old bars, but the rise of the default Cotics. Then move your grips around to simulate different widths and see how you get on.

800mm fatbars with 35mm stem on my SolarisMAX/SodaMAX. Never had an issue (had 120mm forks of the Solaris and running 130mm on Soda)

I guess I’ve erred to wider bars than the norm from early days as I’ve wide shoulders (46’s in my roadie scum days ).

Could probably cut the renthal’s to 780 but cba (doubt itd make that much of a difference).

Currently got 750mm (55mm stem) on the Sherpa, but just bought a pair of fatbars to replace them with as they don’t feel wide enough...

Cheers metalheart

Was wondering where you were (being Cotic rich content and all)

Yeah that Pinkbike article didn't make much sense, you certainlny won't find the answer there.

Fwiw, I have found that my taste in sweep on narrower bars didn't transfer to wider ones. I find standard sweep fine on wider bars, but prefer more sweep on narrower ones. Your attitude over the bike changes to a more elbows-out one, so your forearms are at a different angle.

Was wondering where you were

Ha, only really contributed as I’d been summoned to your earlier thread

The LS geo suits me and I was recommended to stick with the 35mm. Can’t remember if the Solaris started off at 750 and the renthals were an upgrade but whatever I’m happy at 800mm...

The LS geo suits me

Me too

There are definitely smaller people riding bars that are too wide for them now - the correlation between shoulder width, arm length, riding style and bike geometry means I don't think you can nail it down to an absolute but it's about what works for you rather than following fashion.

I found making very large changes in bar width and position too disconcerting - I reckon you need to increment bar width by no more than 20mm or so at a time and have some rides to get used to it. Keep going over a few months until you've reached a point that's too wide for you and scale back.

Obviously don't buy expensive bars while you're doing this - loads of people must have perfectly decent bars a bit narrower than they're currently riding in their parts box so should be easy to pick up narrower bars for peanuts.

There's not really any right or wrong- maybe geometrically there is but the squishy blob holding onto the bars doesn't work by the same rules. If you don't like it, don't do it, simple.

I think it's a bit unintuitive too- like, I had a BMC Trailfox, with a 35mm stem and 780mm bars, worked great. I replaced the frame with a Trek Remedy which is a really similar shape, but it just never felt right right with the 35mm, and I ended up with 50mm unexpectedly. You just have to follow your nose

Ooh Blimey. You haven't seen my nose!

Stooge Moto + 35mm Hope AM stem = very happy for me. Personally, as a kid I rode a singlespeed bought from an old chap in the village (dales) with cowhorn handlebars and an insanely short quill stem and have always looked for a similar bar set up since taking up riding again in my late 30s. Long stems just feel weird - I prefer the responsiveness of a short stem.

Im still experenting with my cockpit in my soda max, i found running a high rise bar a good change after a breif convo with Cy (who was doing the same).

Im actually contemplating a even shorter stem, currently on 35mm

Im actually contemplating a even shorter stem, currently on 35mm

Shorter than a 35?

Isn't that called weld?

Mondrakers forward geometry uses 10/20mm stems. The bar sits on top of a (very short) steerer.

Bar width and stem length alone don’t tell the full picture. The bar shape is massively important and the shorter the stem, the more this matters.

Lay a metre rule across your bars to mark a virtual line from centre of one grip to centre of the other, so the rule is horizontal. If this line is behind the centre of your steerer (projecting a line up following the angle of the steerer, not a vertical line) then your bars will feel unstable when you push them (which you do far more than pull on a bike - and exclusively in reaction to bumps etc).

Typical bars and 30-35mm stems land around the centre of the steerer which gives a very immediate steering feel but more swept bars will feel nervous with such a short stem.

“Mondrakers forward geometry uses 10/20mm stems. The bar sits on top of a (very short) steerer.”

The first ones did. Most riders didn’t like it and they have 30mm stems now.

Bar sweep up and back makes a big difference. I had a 780mm Planet X saloon bar on an old bike and it felt great. My new one cane with a race face 760mm bar but it was straighter and I couldn’t get on with it. Bought another Planet X one and I’m now comfy. On my other bike I’ve gone from a 700mm bar that I had lying around to a 780mm Marin bar someone was selling from a new bike they were splitting. It’s similar to the Planet X and feels good.

One bike is LLS and has a 35mm stem - the other is modern but nowhere near as long and has a 60mm stem on it. Love both of them!

I found bars (back in the day, as i've run 800's for probably 5/6 years now) took a little while to get used to, but anything I ride now with bars less than ~780 just feels strange to me.

Short stems however (i.e. sub 50mm) I cannot get used to. They introduce a load of weird handling traits to the bike, and I really don't like it.

My big bike, with a lot of reach, should be a prime candidate for a sub 50mm stem, but it just makes the bike feel like crap unless you are riding it super aggressive over the front end. It makes the bike feel vague and 'wandery' and in really fast, rough corners it makes it surprisingly twitchy for such a big bike. I forced myself to ride with it this weekend, for 2 big days out of fast riding & can't wait to put the 50mm back on.

I've tried all sorts of widths on different bikes and came to the conclusion that I'm not that sensitive to it.

Tried so far:
800mm on a borrowed Commencal Meta V4
780mm on my various bikes
720mm on my Scott and Cube

Currently got a 760mm Syncros Hixon on the Hightower. I was ready to change the 720mm bar on my Spark, but after riding it I didn't see the need. I'm 6'2" with a long torso and wide shoulders too.

My full sus has 760mm raceface aeffect on a 40mm stem, and I like how it feels. When I built hardtail up I used 780mm renthal carbon on a 35mm stem as that's what came along. I didn't like this setup, felt unstable and washed the front end out a couple of times. Swapped to a 40mm stem and feels much better, more stable, and probably being more familiar is a factor too. Still not sure on bar width, might chop then down to match the 760mm in the full sus as I'm not 100% sold on the 780mm width. 5'7" and not especially broad build for reference.

Edit: Rode a large longshot Soul (too big for me really) with the Pacenti pdent bars (800mm?) and 20mm stem. It was only a 10-12km ride so not really much time to get used to it but again I didn't immediately gel with this setup.

Dunno if it makes any difference, but running a 35mm stem and Cotic 800mm bars on my Solaris Max - I slammed the stem right down - maybe that's not helping, having all the spacers in? It felt a bit odd but natural from the off for me, and I came from a Whyte 29

I have spent sometime experimenting with different bars and stems for my fatbike , so these are my thoughts. Sort the forks out first. Shorter forks steeped the head angle which makes the steering sharper, add that to a short term that you are not used to and it will feel twitchy. I have found to my cost on other bikes that running a fork with different travel to what the frame was designed for(longer or shorter) alters all the geometry of the bike. Usually the frame designers know what they are doing.
I have tried wide and narrow, long and short bars. It is a very personal thing. Fwiw I now run on one ogee bars that I have extended to 740mm, they are swept 25 degrees similar to carnegies. I run these with a 50mms stem. Other option that might suit you are Stooge Moto bars( 800mms swept back) or Salsa bend bars, not sure width but available from slam69

“Short stems however (i.e. sub 50mm) I cannot get used to. They introduce a load of weird handling traits to the bike, and I really don’t like it.”

I’m sure this is the issue where the effective stem length approaches zero (or goes negative). I tried a 35mm stem on my long slack hardtail and reverted to 50mm after some months - much better. I’m running 50mm stems on all three bikes, with 750 bars on the hardtail (better in the trees) and 770 on the other two (ok in the trees and wide enough on fast rough stuff).

The full-sus bikes have the same head angle, BB height and ready but one has a motor, 29” wheels and more stack height so it’s bigger - on that the bar back sweep knocks almost 20mm off the effective stem length (ESL) but it isn’t too nervy as there’s still some ESL and with a 65 deg HA, a short offset fork, big wheels and a lot of weight around the low-ish BB it has a lot of inherent stability.

On the other hand, I started on one of my long bikes with a 45mm stem and it felt OK but a bit awkward on twisty bits of trail.
Swapped to 35mm and it all just snapped into focus - handling suddenly felt intuitive and more neutral.
I tend to size up on most brands though, so may be riding longer front-centres relative to my height than some others.