[Closed] Who actually wants to go 10 speed?

I'll consider it when I need a new cassette/chain. Can't really see an issue.

Go nice with my Hammerschmidt.

Does my coat look nice to you 🙂

i really don't mind if other people do or don't.

but i would very much appreciate the option of buying a chunky 2x5 system - one that still worked after going a bit rusty from being left in the cellar for a few days.

I'd like to do it. 🙂

TBH, I was more than happy with 7 speed. The kit was better quality, lasted longer and worked fine. Certain innovations such as v-brakes and discs have been good, but gear systems have got flimsier and more fragile as more cogs have been added.

If i deem the cassette to have a wide enough of possible ratios i wouldn't mind 1x10, but theres very little stopping me going 1x9 at the mo but i still don't!

I'll wait to see where mountain biking fasion and fads are when my current gear wears out 8)

Must have it!!!!!
You wont be albe to rde without it!
God knows haow we have managed so far without it!
(waves willy to others that only have 9spds at the trail centres)!
Rides around car park and goes home to clean mud off rear tyre where he rode on grass by mistake.

nope, but I'm not a "proper" rider

on the road, I almost always shift at least 2 gears as I can't tell a useful difference between adjacent ones

reckon I'd be happy with 1x9 11 to 36

I only went 9 speed about 18 months ago when I could no longer get high end parts in 8 speed. I think the same will happen again this time. I'll stick 9 sp[eed until I can no longer get the level of equipement I want.

I've used 1x9 for years and its fine for all the stuff i do. I guess an extra gear in there somewhere would be a benefit, but I dislike spending money on bike bits and i imagine it will wear out quicker so i wont bother.

Rides around car park and goes home to clean mud off rear tyre where he rode on grass by mistake.

😆

It's funny because it's true Marge...

but gear systems have got flimsier and more fragile as more cogs have been added.

People keep saying this but I've just never seen it on my or other peoples' bikes - at least going back as far as when 8 speed came out and people all said that wheels would constantly break (less dish) and then 9 speed when everyone said it would clog in the mud and wear out in two laps of the car park. None of these have happened.

7-speed cogs and chains etc lasted me longer than 9-speed stuff does. Just simple observation based on experience of using stuff. Nowt scientific.

I think its just like quattro razors and triple glazing, all the marketing B/S to sell you summit you really do not need or get any real benefit from. IMO

Not me, still on 8s, but it's "must have" for some.

I'd rather have a 10-speed hub gear.

I agree with Talkamalda, stuff doesnt last nowadays.

Not me.

I'll switch my 1x9 to 1x10 when it wears out, just for the extra range in the top (fast) gears.

I almost always shift at least 2 gears as I can't tell a useful difference between adjacent ones

same here

how many people on here are riding round with 9 speed systems that aren't so much:

'1 click 1 glear'

and a bit more

'1 click, RATTLE, nudge, RATTLE, nudge, 2 gears, back off one, nudge, 1 gear, rattle, fnck it that'll do...'

down with this sort of thing.

I like the idea of 2x10. Should make front mechs easier to set up, which is a job I loathe, whilst providing a decent range of gears.

That said, I'll have to wear out my entire 9 speed drivetrain before I think about swapping!

I don't want to particularly but I daresay I'll get there eventually.

This is going to go on and on, there was a mahoosive thread about Shimano and XX.
I've decided that for me it will depend on the quality of shifting, and further to that it's only about three gears where this really matters in racing. 10 speed road is far smoother than 9 so I can see myself changing.
The big Q is if to go 3x10 or 2x10XX.
@clubber you'll need new mech and shifters as well.

I can't really see any end user benefiting from it more than - say - another half a dozen shopping channels on Sky

I will when I have too, but its an expensive change just for the closer ratio when you figure in the new mech, and rear shifter too.. will probably stick with 9 speed for a while.

Or will a 10 speed shifter run a 9 speed mech fine across the new cassettes?

I know some roadies that'll be *really* excited about this - MTB cassettes to get a very low gear on their 10 speed stuff while maintaining the veneer of double / compact respectability...

Mr Blond- that's sadly very true!

I'll be going 10speed as soon as the Shimano stuff appears.

tinsy - it won't need a new rear mech.

ive not really looked, what range can we expect on a cassette.

as above i'd happily go to 2x5 so long as i keep my 22/32 and 36/11 gears.

9 speed was pointless and now 10 speed is even more pointless.

less is more i recon.

i`ve an old casette so i might experiment with gear ratios.

what diameter pipe do i need as a spacer?

I won't be happy until my shifter 'goes to 11' 😀

Clubber, thanks, then I guess at some stage I will swap to 10 but I wont break my neck about it right now.

To really get the benefit of it it seems you would need the 10 specific rings at the front so for me its definately a wait until the whole lot of kit on my bike has had it...

Will be an expensive change, on the cheap it will need a RH shifter new chain and cassette, to do it properly to get the most out of it will involve a new crankset, and at that point you might as well have everything bar the front/rear mech!!!! So not much change out of what, maybe £300 to swap to 10 speed?
And then its a toss up as to wether to do a Sram and drop to 2x10 rather than Shimano's close ratio 3x10.

[i]but gear systems have got flimsier and more fragile as more cogs have been added. [/i]

I'm with clubber on this, IME this isn't true at all, my 9 speed stuff is fine, maybe once or twice in the deepest depths of winter the 11t or 12t get clogged, no biggie, haven't noticed a particular increase in wear or set up hassles either, in fact I'd say Shimano stuff now is easier to set than it used to be. I'm intrigued by 2x10, I'd want to have a go on it before splashing the cash though, and like normal, I'll wait for a year or so to make sure it works.

Did do 2x9 for a while with a Middleburn duo, couple of things I noticed, Duo chainsets are pretty bendy, and you tend to chase the ratios a bit, and each change from big to "middle" was a bit of change-a-thon, but that was again a ratio issue. If those are sorted out, then can't see that 2x10 wouldn't be OK for most folk..

I've done it already, it's pretty good, not gonna change your life though!

nickc Shimano is still a triple up front, at least for XT/SLX it is.. Of course for even more outlay you can run the Sram size rings on the Shimano kit....

No new chainset needed - SRAM XX does shift amazingly well but that's the only 'advantage' and it's not like current stuff shifts badly at the front. It's perfectly compatible otherwise so 10 speed 'upgrade' will require a cassette, chain and shifter. Assuming that you do it when you're replacing a worn out cassette and chain anyway, that leaves only the shifter cost which since SLX will be going 10 speed, isn't going to be prohibitively expensive.

I'd imagine though tinsy, that Shimano will do a double chainset, wouldn't you?

[i]not gonna change your life though! [/i]

njee20 has it, I think. In a couple of years we'll all wonder what the fuss was about, like the change from 7 to 8 to 9 etc etc

Singlespeed anyone? 😉

njee20 has it, I think

Did you read who posted the comment you quoted? 😉

It will bring the idea of a double chainset to more people, if you were happy with 9 speed, 10 speed won't really change much, just as 7-8 and 8-9 didn't. IMO of course.

Nah, got one already. They're old hat (especially after SSEC)

Seeing as I've just gone from singlespeed to a 3 x 9 I reckon my extra 26 gears are probably enough.

Clubber, you wont need the new chainset for it, but the ring sizes are differnt on the 10 speed stuff to make use of the 11-36 10 speed cassette, if you run your 9 speed chainset it will work, but you will miss out on the supposed benefit of the 10 speed shimano triple setup.. Wouldnt you?

It either that or buy a set of rings in the sizes Sram have gone for to run a double..

As ever 2 companies have a differnt way of looking at the same thing, it depends on whos theory you buy into...

Ah, yes, fair comment - sorry, I'm already on 2x9 so I'm not considering any cost for changing chainrings...

though of course, if you've knacked your cassette and chain then changing the chainrings may be a good idea anyway so it could be argued that that's no extra cost..

Is it known what Shimano are doing for XTR? Could it be something a little more radical like a 2x11?

XTR will be 2 or 3 x10. There will be a "racers" double option available.

But no racers double for SLX/XT?

I did breifly see an article last week that a google has not turned up today, but I dont remember seeing the XTR, nor 2x10 for the er, slightly more cost consious mentioned..

Nah, it'll be 2x10.

Seeing as this:

[img] [/img]

Was leaked about 3 months ago and correctly predicts the 24/32/42 XT chainset I suspect it's pretty accurate with regards to the other bits.

It is just a load of synical bollocks on the bike industry merry go round of compatability issues and continual reinvention of all other sundry parts from the bloody wheel sideways to all else which will be essentialy the same, saving for the freaking expensive new tool you need to buy to fettle whatever the-not-realy-new-but-slightly-different bit.......is.

The customer does not need it. The industry does.

Ten speed chains are going to clog quicker and break easier than nine speed which clogged quicker than eight and seven, and the adjustments are going to be incrementaly finer which means they will upset easier etc etc. But eventually the industry will downcog their production of nine speed to a bare minimum of kit and you will probably be forced into it.

Progress!

Ten speed chains are going to clog quicker and break easier than nine speed

Once again, that's just not the case. CX bikes have been absolutely fine with 10 speed for a while now...

Why have a 24T granny ring? What is wrong with 22?

WHY??????

FFFFFFFF WHY?

Why change back to a 42 Outer ring? What is wrong with 44?

It just ensures that none of your old kit is compatable.

What?

A) no one is forcing you to use it, if you don't want to, then don't!

B) why would a 22/32/44 chainset not be compatible (aside from the minute difference in chainring thickness)? There's no forced incompatibility.

C) as Clubber said they've been fine in cross, which arguably is harder on chains, there's not been an appreciable increase, and Campag have shown their 11 speed chain is actually stronger than their 10 speed chain.

"The customer does not need it. The industry does"

but you could say that about suspension, index shifting, pneumatic tyres.. butted tubing..?
it's all development, it's just that now it's at the diminishing returns level as bikes get better and better each few years. 9-speed won't be discontined for ages yet so there's no need to upgrade if your 9 speed is running ok. but if it's worn out, i'd make the change.

all things equal apart from the thickness of links; the thinner the chain, the stronger the chain. thinner links mean less leverage from the centre bushes over the joining plates. we had all this 'weaker chain' when we went from 7 to 8, then 8 to 9.. it may wear a bit quicker due to less surface area, but then maybe not if the spread of gears is more useable.

"Why change back to a 42 Outer ring? What is wrong with 44?" read shimano's reasoning for Dynasis, it's about lower chain stress for a given torque through the crank, as well as better gear spreads. makes sense to me, but to be fair i've had all the shimano blurb for long enough to understand it. but honestly, it does make sense. and it doesn't render old kit useless as 9-speed XT + SLX continues for a while yet.

I thought the 26 / 39 type ratios were fairly obvious - because you have a wider spread at the back, you have your double ratios move in a bit. You'll lose a bit of high end gearing but retain a decent spread.

[url= http://www.theonion.com/articles/****-everything-were-doing-five-blades,11056/ ]Reminds me a little of this. substitute "Gilette" for "Shimano"; "blades" for "speed" and "5" for "10" and you're probably not far off![/url] Warning: contains the work "****".

Personally, I'm still on 8. With 7/8 speed thumbies, which I could shift onto friction to work with a 9 or 10 speed cassette. If I get a new rear wheel with a hope pro 2 hub and I can't find an 8 speed cassette with an alloy carrier, that's probably what I'll have to do.

I have 10 speed on my mountain bikes and 11 speed on the road and cyclocrossers. I am a big chap and haven't snapped anything yet. It works well, and offers a great range of gears. What's not to like?

If you object to being left behind, or don't much fancy the cost of changing, that's one thing. But to dismiss it because it's new and different seems to be becoming almost trendy on STW.

I mentioned on an earlier post around this subject that 5 speed was once considered 'new fangled'. Where do you draw the line? Who gives anybody the authority to suggest that 7 was enough, 8 was enough, or now that 9 was enough. 10 is here and it aint going away.

People need to be aware that it's not called the bike industry/bike business for nothing. Behind the enjoyment that we all get from riding, there are big corporations who are driven by profit. That fact that to us it's a leisure interest doesn't disguise the fact that we are all consumers, and the nature of big business is to try and sell us stuff. If you don't want to buy, that's fine. Vote with your wallet. But if you do, so what?

SRAM, Shimano, Hope, Pace, even the smaller boutique brands that we all love. They may be run by enthusiasts, but they only stay afloat because they sell stuff, and new product is the lifeblood of the industry. We are all being marketed to, and there are many ways of seeing that.

Buy it or don't buy it, that's your choice. I respect that choice. But others might feel differently and want to give it a go.

Be thankful for the early adopters. Without them, there would be nobody left to sell you a slow but steady stream of 8 and 9 speed kit, because that trickle of revenue wouldn't keep a bike shop afloat.

The LBS where we all like to go and socialise, meet up for rides and discuss our hobby isn't some sort of adult youth club. It's a business which has bills to pay and staff to employ. They don't do that on thin air and the pleasant chat of retro-focussed STW posters.

As Njee said, nobody is forcing you to buy it, but if you want to, why not? I wouldn't sell everything I am running now and swap if it wasn't worn out, but as stuff wears out, why not?

+1 to everything solarider said.

I'm up fer it.
2X10 either on the mountainbike, or road component compatibility on the crossbike sounds good to me.

When I feel loaded I'll get a Middleburn Uno, some Chubb hubs, light frame and ask Jedi to teach me to ride properly. Until then 9x1/2/3 and a few pints to heal the mental bruises.

slx and saint already have a double ring with bashguard option for 9 speed...

Yep, and you can either lose quite a few of the gears you'd have with a triple, or have massive jumps in the cassette. 10 speed reduces that, gives you a wider range of gears on a double with smaller gaps.

I'm not having it because 9 speed isn't up to the job. Until I have no choice because of enforced obsolescence of course.

They're going 10 speed!

Dang! I'm only recently 'upgraded' to 8 speed!...

Apologies if this has been said above, but what I don't understand is that, with the Shimano gear, you get the same low gear (24x36) and a lower high gear.

I appreciate the arguments for closer spaced gears and smaller rings, but how much closer is an 11-36 ten speed compared to an 11-34 9 speed? As for the 42 tooth outer, I usually replace my 44 with 42s when they wear out.

With 36 tooth lows being available on 9 speed cassettes, could I not get most the benefits of a 3x10 using 24 32 42 rings and a 12-36 9 speed cassette?

Another question and slightly O.T., could an aluminium free hub take the torque generated by a 36x22 gear? I know that this isn't being offered with the Shimano's 10 speed, I'm just wondering.

njee20
A 44/32/22 system needs a different front mech (deeper section at the rear of the cage to cater for the 12 tooth drop as against a 10 tooth drop) to a 42/32/24 system. You might just about get the one to work on the other system but you will never get a sweet shift out of it. They are just shiting the customer about to sell you more kit.

We should all be flattered, Shimano obviously sincerely think we all need the kit the pros use.

Wouldn't want to disappoint them by wheezing up the next hill with only 27 gears now would you?

I'm going either 1 x 10 or 2 x 10 on my new bike, though only because I'm buying a new bike. Sure it will be just as good as 9 speed which i didnt have a problem with before

This will help to keep bike shops in business 🙂

Cogs are getting down to tin can thicknesses. Shimano must be rubbing their hands at the thought of all those skinny cogs grinding through mud.

You might just about get the one to work on the other system but you will never get a sweet shift out of it.

Are you American? Nothing on a bike should be described as 'sweet'!

It'll be fine, mechs are not that intolerant, they're not gonna totally redesign the mechs to be reverse incompatible, calm down!

10 speed only if its 2x5 like the road bike I had when I was a kid?

7 speed was fine for me but you can't buy it anymore so I had to downgrade to 8 speed. I've seen how weak 9 speed is. So when 8 speed becomes unavailable I'll be getting a hub gear.

I'm not having it because 9 speed isn't up to the job

In what way is it not up to the job? Geniunely interested!

It's been the 'standard' for 11 years, in that time I'd be pretty confident that the vast majority, if not all, of the world cup and world championship races in DH, XC, 24 hour racing etc etc, have been won on 9 (or 10 speed) transmissions!

because it isn't.

picture the scene; i've been away biking for the weekend, i get home late on sunday. So late it's nearly monday. i throw my bag under the stairs, i drop the bike in the cellar, and go to bed.

18 hours later when i get home from work, i'll clean my bike if i'm feeling energetic. but in the few hours in the cellar, the chain and gear cable and whatever have gone a little bit rusty, and now my lovely indexing has a little bit of friction, and doesn't really work anymore.

fewer gears in the same space would mean a little bit of normal 'out of tune-ness' would be less of a problem.

9-speed is a pain, and stops working nicely after a little bit of neglect, 10-speed will be worse.

world cup racers have mechanics to prepare their bikes before every race, i don't. i would be genuinely excited to see a system developed to help normal lazy bikers like me.

because it isn't.

STW at its finest there! I find if you lube your bike properly then it won't go rusty in the first place...

Had a look at the XX range at Merlin cycles, whilst speccing my new bike...Christ that rear cassette is HUGE

njee20 - Member
I find if you lube your bike properly then it won't go rusty in the first place...

i'm cleaning and oiling (pedros stuff) my chain about 3 times a week, i have middleburn cable oilers, which i use about twice a week, i really don't know what else i should be doing.

help?

(it's appreciated, really. But patronising comments aren't so much)

Well I don't see the point, a 2x9 what plenty enough. If you can't get to the top on the 22x34 you might as well push as lower gear will give you too much torque and you'll probably just do backflips.

If I can still get the choice of buying 9 speed or 10 speed I wouldn't object to it, but I very much doubt, so in a year or two I will be bound to buy 10 gear. And to be fair I don't want 10 gears I want 9. 9 is find by me, actually as I don't race I don't even need a 22/32/36 front gearing, a double 22/32 is just enough so why would I want to go 10 gears? I don't. What I want though is being able to buy decent (like Lx or XT) 9 gears chain and cassettes for the next 5-6 years.

FFS I still use square taper and 5 bold chain rings...

i would be genuinely excited to see a system developed to help normal lazy bikers like me.

It's been the 'standard' for 11 years, in that time I'd be pretty confident that the vast majority, if not all, of the world cup and world championship races in DH, XC, 24 hour racing etc etc, have been won on 9 (or 10 speed) transmissions!

i'm cleaning and oiling (pedros stuff) my chain about 3 times a week, i have middleburn cable oilers, which i use about twice a week, i really don't know what else i should be doing.

Well if you're finding it's going rusty between rides, and you're not gonna get a chance to clean it in between, I'd just dribble some thick chain lube (I really rate like White Lightning Wet Ride) on the chain when you get home. I've personally never had any real problems with skipping transmissions other than in truly horrific conditions!

I like the idea of 11-36t cassettes. I think I might manage with one chainring in the front using that...