[Closed] PSA - Shimano hubs ARE completely rebuildable

I have a ****ing clue as I remember doing this to Campag hubs about 25 years ago !

I'd long suspected this was possible. I bet you can't buy the cups on their own......

Hmmm. I will certainly have a look next time; if I let one get pitted. You're right about cheap hub availability. I snapped a DX front hub axle recently and found a modern Deore one @ On-one for £5. Cheap axle and cone replacement sorted.

I always enjoy wielding my cone spanners. It's an almost forgotten art in cycling.

We've been doing this at my LBS for years, I've said so many times on here that it's doable! They used to do at least one a week!

Awesome - that might get me out of a wheel build.

I've been doing this for some time. I just but a donor hub and strip it down.

I'm tempted to make some salt and pepper shakers with the new empty hubs....

Where were you lot during the dark "Hope vs. Shimano flame-a-geddon" years?

😀

Very satisfying though, I feel sorry for Hope users never knowing that - and their wasteful, expensive non-eco-friendly lifestyles!

Completely!!!??
got the bit to take the freehub apart?
That's what goes first.

So, to rebuild a shimano hub you need...a shimano hub? 😀

That sounds great , Now go and find me some 09 Ultegra Cones as my LBS say no longer available in UK. So Im looking at binning a perfectly good wheel because the importers are only now supporting 6700 and newer.

OK the freehub is not repairable - but it is replaceable.

Now go and find me some 09 Ultegra Cones as my LBS say no longer available in UK

They have searched for alternatives? I'd be very surprised if nothing compatible is available. Many LBS either are clueless or don't care.

Oh and

Parts 9 and 13 - look very standard to me - plug the codes into the Madison website, I bet there's something that will work.

Is it simply a case of drifting the cup out? I have a dead XT disc wheel and a not being used XT rim brake wheel for possible donor parts.

Singletrackmind

Iirc that wheelset uses smaller bearings than normal shimano hubs

We had a chuffig pain getting cones only 1 year after selling the wheels

I've used sale XT non disc hubs as freewheel and cone donors for XT factory wheels. The cups are pretty pitted so I may give this a try too.

I have a couple of these
[url= http://www.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/HB/EV-HB-M775-2702_v1_m56577569830621051.pdf ]775 series hubs[/url] and they do indeed have different bearings etc then previous ones.

Most other Shimano front hubs use 9 bearings, these use 11 and I guess they're a different size.

Anyhow - that link above will take you to the service pdf for those hubs, so take a look. I think the giveaway might be that they use a hex key to unlock the locknut, not a cone spanner.

Been there, done that. Cheap old dead hub for donor to rejuvenate XT hubs! Keep a spares box of cups drifted from dead hubs, spare cones and balls from Petra Cycles.

Singletrackmind, bear with me here I am only thinking aloud, now it seems changing the cups is easy enough, I wonder if standard shimano cups will fit in your hub, then its just a case of using normal size bearings & normal cones to match?

As many others have, I've been there and done that.

Shimano hubs still weight a fair old pile. If one cares about such things.

weights, XT756s are (google says) Front:244g Rear: 435g... Hopes are Front 185g Rear 295g - and they're far from the lightest cats on the block.

Also because the shimano freehub screws onto the main hub shell, the rear hubs never quite run true, it's just impossible to machine threads accurately enough IIRC. So you get a wobbly cassette. If one cares about such things.

Sure, Shimano are cheap. But you can buy other hubs cheaply, too.

PeterPoddy - Member

I bet you can't buy the cups on their own......

Nah, but then you wouldn't want to really- buy a hub, get fresh bearings, new seals, a spare freehub, even a QR if I remember rightly, for about what you'd expect to pay for a couple of little parts.

We found it pretty hard work to get one of the cones out, and I can see there might be compatablity issues over years (if the interference sizes changed) but yeah, it's a pretty straightforward job- barely harder than changing cartridge bearings.

Done exactly the same. Had 2 broken hubs (1 with knackered freehub, 1 with knackered cones), made 1 working hub.

I'd still have cartridge hubs in a heartbeat. As far as I'm concerned they should ditch the design entirely and we can go back to using 20mm axles.

I had one hub completely grind itself into dust, the pitted cup locked onto the bearings, the turning motion of the wheel tightened the cone. The wheel stopped spinning instantly, the bearings were powder, hub a total mess.

Seriously don't see the selling point of using heavy, high maintenance hubs.

What are people using as a drift to get the cups out? Think I have a wheel or two worth fixing up if it's possible. Hammer Time is cathartic anyway.

brassneck - Member

What are people using as a drift to get the cups out?

Suzuki motorbike axle... If you don't have one, simply buy a whole bike and throw the bits you don't want away, that's the cup-and-cone way 😉

😀

[b]Trail-Rat[/b] Yes , I am sure the 6600 uses a much smaller ball bearing 5/32? or something , and alot of them .
LBS#1 reckoned bin wheel and buy something built using DT or Hope hubs if wanting long life and replacability.
LBS#2 Is looking into options but not hopeful

Toasty - Member

Seriously don't see the selling point of using heavy, high maintenance hubs.

but they're not high maintenance.

the cheaper-than-deore 475 hubs on my commuter have done over 4000km, often in filthy weather.

i took them apart a couple of weeks ago (1 year service), the 'old' grease was still clear. 1 hour and a cup of tea later, the hubs were full of new grease, and running beautifully.

i see no reason why they can't go 2 years (another 8000km) till their next service.

can you see the selling point in 'cheap and reliable' hubs?

tinsy - Member
Singletrackmind, bear with me here I am only thinking aloud, now it seems changing the cups is easy enough, I wonder if standard shimano cups will fit in your hub, then its just a case of using normal size bearings & normal cones to match?

Nice tip cynic-al, thought I go straight outside and try that with one of my donor hubs...

Success 😀

[img] [/img]

Is all this to save having to build a new wheel? I thought every had whacked them out with a big hammer and screwdriver at some point in their life 😯

can you see the selling point in 'cheap and reliable' hubs?

Yes, but that's different words to what I said. I've had cartridge hubs, those on my Tricross's Rovals for example, that have lasted 4 years currently without being touched.

For anything vaguely light I'd not go near cup and cone, all my issues specifically were with XT hubs. The Deore hub you're quoting is like half a kilo, it's probably got another Deore hub inside it, for when anything goes wrong.

I'd rather get a decent set of wheels, that I can swap the axles on regardless of what frame I'm using. That use the perfectly fine, industry standard rotor fittings. With the option of a 20mm axle. I've bought a set of Hope drifts and they've been fine on every set of cartridge hubs I've used to be honest.

I thought every had whacked them out with a big hammer and screwdriver at some point in their life

Not me! I've stripped everything else off donor hubs in the past to keep a favourite wheel running, but didn't know the bearing cup would come out, until now... 😀

I used a pair of 475 cheapies off road for 5 years before they died.

These weight figures - is that including axles for the cartridge hubs..?

Shimano hubs ARE completely rebuildable

You just have to remember to seat the cup fully, or you'll be adjusting out play/putting up with wobbly wheels 'till the cows come home. Yep, speaking from experience. 😳

Tell you what - while you've got it out add a grease port 1/2 way through the width of the body. That'll make them reliable!

I was doing this on wheels back in 1979/80.
Pretty sure I did it on Skyways too.

Always thought there it was an opening for some bright spark to come out with a cartridge bearing conversion kit...

XT756s are (google says) Front:244g Rear: 435g... Hopes are Front 185g Rear 295g

These weight figures - is that including axles for the cartridge hubs..?

Those weights are the older 6bolt xt, tho both QR without skewers.
Newer centrelock is lighter @ 180g F and 369g R (according to [url= http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/tech_support/tech_tips.download.-Par50rparsys-0034-downloadFile.html/07)%20Hub%20Specs.pdf ]this[/url])

But as states ealier is this thread, those hubs have poor reliability due to smaller bearings.

Sorry, I meant the Hopes.

"yesterday I whacked out a good one"

😆

Great PSA, thanks cynic-al 🙂

Yeah, those weights quoted above seem to be including QR for the Shimano, but not the Hope, skewing the figures a lot. The 475 quoted previously is still a beefcake though:

[img] [/img]

That said though, the centerlock are equally stupid, as a cheap centerlock rotor weighs double a cheap 6 bolt.

Singletrackmind . Lbs 1 is bang on the money

Shimano binned the idea for a reason and madison didnt want to know / considered a year acceptable use for a wheel to be scrap

but they're not high maintenance.

the cheaper-than-deore 475 hubs on my commuter have done over 4000km, often in filthy weather.

i took them apart a couple of weeks ago (1 year service), the 'old' grease was still clear. 1 hour and a cup of tea later, the hubs were full of new grease, and running beautifully.

i see no reason why they can't go 2 years (another 8000km) till their next service.

can you see the selling point in 'cheap and reliable' hubs?

And I've still got some Hopes from 1997 that get ridden and raced in all kinds of filth, still on their original bearings and are still smooth and have never been touched other than clearing the freehub pawls and springs twice a decade, and when they finally do need new bearings it'll be a 15min hammer job instead of a messy greasy, spanner wiggling adjustment-fest

can you see the selling point in decent cartridge hubs?

FWIW I also have a few sets of C+C Shimano hubs myself, I'm not a hub evangelist either way, and deal with plenty of all types in the workshop, I just don't see the point of all the 'one true way' arguing...

Pros and cons on both sides

Re weight, if you compare XT with a Hope with steel freehub, the difference isn't so big.

As far as reliability goes... Cup-and-cone [i]can[/i] be outrageously reliable, my commuter's exage rear is from about 1990, it's had a few sets of replacement balls but the races are still fine, freehub is original... I've put more replacement parts in my 3-year-old Pro 2s (axles, pawls, and a bunch of bearings)

Buuut, I don't think modern Shimano lives up to that, at least, not from what I've seen.

Buuut, I don't think modern Shimano lives up to that, at least, not from what I've seen.

Sadly I dont think the modern Hopes do either, I've been through more bearings and freehubs in 5 years of Pro IIs than I have in 15 on XCs/Ti-glides

On a similar note, what high end wheelset these days uses steel freehub bodies? They're great when you can save 5 mins getting a cassette off once a year, but aside from that..?

Sounds more like a cash saving than a great upgrade.

I've got some properly chewed up freehubs bodies, gouged a good few mm into the aluminium, it's never been a huge issue.

Sadly I dont think the modern Hopes do either

Buy one of the other brands of cartridge hubs then, there's enough about.

On a similar note, what high end wheelset these days uses steel freehub bodies? They're great when you can save 5 mins getting a cassette off once a year, but aside from that..?

by 'high end' do you mean light weight? Steel bodies are a lot tougher, would never dream of using an Alu freehub on a trials bike, and I'd think twice about SS or DH having cracked a few Alu freehub bodies but never a steel one (yet).

Buy one of the other brands of cartridge hubs then, there's enough about.

I have thanks, I was just airing my experiences and explaining why

Sorry, I meant the Hopes.

amedias - Member

And I've still got some Hopes from 1997 that get ridden and raced in all kinds of filth, still on their original bearings and are still smooth and have never been touched other than clearing the freehub pawls and springs twice a decade, and when they finally do need new bearings it'll be a 15min hammer job instead of a messy greasy, spanner wiggling adjustment-fest

can you see the selling point in decent cartridge hubs?

FWIW I also have a few sets of C+C Shimano hubs myself, I'm not a hub evangelist either way, and deal with plenty of all types in the workshop, I just don't see the point of all the 'one true way' arguing...

Pros and cons on both sides

absolutely, all of that, yes.

i have 2 hope hubs, sorry, 3 hope hubs in the cellar.

(1 of them needs new bearings, i haven't used it in years because i haven't got a clue where to start)

and if you follow the same thinking you should be able to cannibalise a 10mm QR or 142x12 shimano hub to convert a shimano hubbed wheel. (might want to double check in case it needs to be specific like Zee or XT).

(1 of them needs new bearings, i haven't used it in years because i haven't got a clue where to start)

if it's just the main hub shell bearings then

remove freehub
hammer + some wood, bang, bang,
hammer + socket, bang, bang
replace freehub
working hub

or if you do it properly...

remove freehub
hammer + hub support tool, bang, bang,
hammer + bearing seating tool, bang, bang
replace freehub
working hub

If the freehub bearings are shot as well then they're a little more annoying to get to but not really difficult, I think there are some videos on Youtube and hope website...worth a look and learning yourself because it will save you money in the long run and it really isn't any more difficult than bash them out and then bash new ones in.

Nice tips, cheers 🙂

😀

*feels warm inside*

So I got into the dead hub. Tapped the cup a couple of times and a large chunk of it fell out. Turns out the hub was more dead than I thought. What tips for getting the outer part of the cup out when there are no inner surfaces left to clobber?

Yesterday I whacked a good one out

EDIT: bullandbladder beat me to it!!