[Closed] New bike deal-breakers

Avid brakes

[img] [/img]

'Aspirational' pricing on Taiwanese made stuff.
Lack of mud clearance.
Brown paint.
650b.
Awful dealers.
Terrible websites.
Previous negative experiance of a brand.
Anything by Crank Brothers or Avid.
Money saving rip offs sold as innovation.

Just built my first bike with internal routing. I'd hate to do hydro brakes that way but for gear cables, quite happy. I had more problems not thinking about cable lengths before I started so I had to pull the cables out a couple of times to get it right.

In terms of deal breakers:
Shimano shifting on MTB - no problem with it I'm sure, just never used it so prefer SRAM (road is the other way around)
First generation "innovative" technology - I'll wait for the next generation

Other than that I'm quite happy to consider most things although I'd need convincing to buy an Orange Five or a Lefty fork

Related to my original point: Reverb Stealth.

Anything by Crank Brothers or Avid.

I did have a great set of Speed Dial brake levers from about 1997, but apart from that I'm with you all the way.

Quite a few manufacturers seem to spec Crank Bros wheelsets on top-end bikes. Great way to put buyers off IMO.

Anything that doesn't fit what I already own....in which case...

Anything 10 speed
Anything 29'er or 650b, or 27.5"

Plus plenty of kit I don't get on with....

Anything Avid
Anything Crank Bros

Am I in a new niche?

Internal hosing makes a bike look a lot cleaner, although it is a PITA. It wouldn't be such an issue if more brake manufacturers used QR couplings. Some does leave a bit to be desired with the chain stay routing though.

The only SRAM stuff I'll make an exception for is XX1 or XO1, otherwise, not interested. same for anything CB.

That new 456 with the 1 1/8th head tube - incompatible with the vast majority of new forks on the market. Just can't understand that.

[i]Avid brakes[/i]

Amen to that

avid brakes
poor mud clearance
ill put up with sram gears but they are getting swapped out as soon as they wear out or break

Avid brakes.
Press fit/bb30
Gxp cranks
that giant tapered headset 'standard' (do they even make it any more?)
Proprietary rear shocks (eg spesh brain, that trek/fox one with the pivots in the middle of the air can)
integrated headsets(bearings go straight into frame with no external or semi-integrated cups) on mountain bikes.

I will also approach with caution:
wierd wheels with unusual spokes
rear ends with no replaceable hanger
rear ends with ludicrously expensive replacement dropouts (intense, newer yetis etc)

On a slight tangent, I wold be most impressed with a bike manufacturer that invested a tiny bit in supplying with the bike a spare hanger and a couple of sets of pre-cut helitape for areas where its extensive r&d has revealed cable rub to be an issue. It baffles me that they spend so much on r&d, marketing, teams etc but are too bone idle or cheapskate to do this on a bike that retails for a grand or five. 😕

Avid/Shimano Brakes
Shimano Drive Train
Trigger Shift
SRAM Grip Shift is all I allow these days 🙂
Shimano Hubs, in fact anything not Hope or CK
PF/BB/Push in BB's again anything not Hope
Stupidly narrow bars (under 750mm)
also +1 for stupid stuff like custom shocks that are not available after market.

For some reason I don't buy complete bikes.

and a couple of sets of pre-cut helitape for areas where its extensive r&d has revealed cable rub to be an issue.

they could even stick it on for you!

I avoid any bikes with over the top logo's or stickering

Stupidly narrow bars (under 750mm)

I am really not keen on Press fit bottom brackets, internal cable routing or manufacturers special standards. Cheap forks and ones that aren't bolt thru would stop me muting a bike nowadays as replacements are stupidly expensive.

Everything else can be changed & sold but it soon adds up. avid brakes and nasty own brand finishing kit and wheels are usually the first to go along with cheap and nasty chain sets.

And another thing...

XT rear mechs and Deore shifters? No thanks, I'd rather have it the other way round please.

honourablegeorge - Member

That new 456 with the 1 1/8th head tube - incompatible with the vast majority of new forks on the market. Just can't understand that.

Ahhh...but perfect for an updated version in 18 months time.....! £kerching£

I kept saying I wouldn't have another Specialized after my 06 Enduro because of the silly way the the shocks are mounted. I now have an 11 Enduro Evo. 😐

If i was haunted.
Dont think id buy a haunted bike.

Prsss fit BB's - If I can avoid them, I can. They last less time than a square taper by a considerable margin and I notice no performance improvement.

The new type 2 SRAM rear mech that I am currently using has a lot more play than my older X9 mechs ever had even after several years of use.

Avid disk brakes - I have two bikes which came fitted with them and they suffer from fade, pumping up, inconsistent performance, squeal in the wet and have had several LBS rebleeds. They simply lack the reliability that I've enjoyed with Shimano and even Hayes over the years so I would never buy them aftermarket.

Carbon bike frames - I wear things out. I crash. I like technical steep and rocky trails. Carbon and I are ill matched bed fellows. 😀

Internal cable routing - it looks tidy but is just another way of water getting into the frame. It solves a problem that doesn't really exist in my mind.

Hmm there seems to be a universal dislike of Avid brakes.

Why so exactly ?

Any particular version or is just a "they're all shite" thing.

I've only ever used Magura and Shimano so have no experience but have recently lusted over Avids XO trails.

Am I insane ?

Edit - Just saw Sanny's comments - Bo****ks !

there were a few designs of Avids that were riddled with reliability issues (seals and leaking) and a convoluted bleeding process.
I have a pair of Elixir CRs that started leaking from the lever after a few months and a pair of Codes that lasted well until I bled them.

For me it's anything I'm stuck with as a result of the design: -

Press fit BB's
Lack of ISCG tabs
All 29ers
All 650b (what I buy needs to be compatible with existing 26ers)
+1 for proprietary shocks
Any frames with a history of cracking
Anything in its first year of production
Frames that only take 1 1/8" steerers
Frames which only have quick release on the rear

I wouldn't be keen on any of the following (might put me off or I'd probably just strip them off and sell them immediately): -

Anything CB
Fox forks
Wheels which have proprietary spokes
Wheels based on hubs other than Hope or CK

pymwymis - Member

Hmm there seems to be a universal dislike of Avid brakes.

Why so exactly ?

they're all shite?

i've had a few; the levers leaked, the calipers leaked, the pistons seized.

you may be able to get good ones, but they're more expensive than shimano, and no better.

my tuppence: tiny pivot bearings, i nearly bought a Giant Anthem but you find bigger bearings in a pocket watch.

I do wonder why so many bikes have SRAM/avid stuff as OE.

Must be because nobody wants to buy it aftermarket.

🙂

(Look at Formula instead, I reckon)

Frames which only have quick release on the rear

I did have this on my list, but have softened my stance somewhat.

eg. Lapierre rear ends are stiff enough anyway due to the chainstay reverse taper.

Also softened on 15mm front axles, but only so I could get a Marzocchi 44 RC3 ti forks. Still wish everyone had just stuck to 20mm.

pymwymis - Member

Hmm there seems to be a universal dislike of Avid brakes.

Why so exactly ?

Any particular version or is just a "they're all shite" thing.

Just to clarify, I like their cable brakes (both rim & disc), it's just the hydraulic stuff I'm not keen on.

So so far our composite ideal bike consists of

Nothing by :

Avid
CB
SRAM

No proprietary shocks
No fancy spokes
No carbon frames
No internal cableing
No 1/8" only steerers
No Fox forks
No press fit BB's
No large or medium sized wheels
No small bearings
No frames which have ever historically broken

Nothing 10 speed

Nothing in its first year of production

Nothing expensive made in Taiwan

Bars min width 750mm

And nothing haunted.

I'm looking forward to seeing the STW collective's perfect bike.

A pre-650b Heckler? 😛

Edit: Oh actually, weren't they 1 1/8 steerers? A new one, just get over the wheel size thing.

Santa Cruz is one of 'those' firms that expect you to pay a premium because their Taiwanese frames are somewhow seen as a cut above other perfectly good Taiwanese frames selling for half the price.

You're paying for the name.
In the UK at least.

The Rockhopper I bought in 86 seems to only fail on bar width.

Annoying when you fall between sizes.
I would really like an 18" frame.
Lots of bikes either come in 17" or 19"

On one do 18" frames, but................

sounds to me like everyone's ideal bike is one of these - [img] [/img]

Any bike product managers reading will definitely have to be selective in the points they take.

For me I would have to have no-

Sram gears
Avid brakes
Fox forks
Shimano hubs
Dropper posts that aren't Reverbs
Wheels with silly spokes
Stupid standards that aren't standards (29 or 650 wheels, 35mm bars, 34.9 seatposts, and in an ideal world no 15mm axles, pressfit bbs or daft headsets)
Internal routing
Crank brothers anything

There is still a surprising amount of bad products out there.

Avid brakes
No dropper routing
Pressfit BB
Too heavy for type/travel

Well, I for one will not have any component that people might define as 'progress' in any form whatsoever. No siree!

That and gripshift.

Bottle cage mounts. No mounts no deal.

Any frame that isn't a Maverick, sold my last Maverick, played musical frames trying to get something that came close, intense, nicolai, yeti, Ellsworth, now back to another maverick as its the only frame I know I love. A lesson learned...

Another vote for Avid brakes, they're shite.

I have two bikes.
One has a pressfit bb which is playing up and has been a complete pain.
The other has internally routed gear cables. The gears will not stay indexed and my research suggests this is a feature of - the internally routed cables (I haven't fixed the problem yet so I can't confirm this is the cause).

parkesie - Member

If i was haunted.
Dont think id buy a haunted bike

Dead man's bike.

Seat always cold

Those Alpinestars Cro Mega used to fail at the weld of the seatstay and the chainstay - One of my uni friends had a couple, looked great in the flesh at the time with the classic smoke dart combination in skin walls.

I wouldn't buy a bike with the following;
SRAM gears
Internally routed brakes
Single pivot suspension
QR Fork
No gears (I'm not fit enough)

On a slight tangent, I wold be most impressed with a bike manufacturer that invested a tiny bit in supplying with the bike a spare hanger...

Instead of having a normal mech hanger Liteville use a stronger one and it attaches with a sacrificial bolt, and there is a spare bolt screwed into the frame (out of sight).

Does anyone else find this thread depressing? A lot of conservative opinionism I think 🙂

Crap suspension. So long as the frame /forks are good, everything else can be sorted. That being said I probably wouldn't buy a complete bike, I prefer building mine up from parts and getting exactly what I want.

nikk - Member

Does anyone else find this thread depressing? A lot of conservative opinionism I think

No, I think it's superb.

Shows that people can tell genuine innovations that have improved the way we ride from pointless marketing driven toss.

Quite restored my faith.

Nikk +1

In all seriousness if I liked the way a bike rode, if it was priced reasonably and wasn't stupidly heavy/light. I don't think there is anything that would be a deal breaker.

Well maybe if it had crank brothers wheels or dropper. But I would ask the shop to swap those out.

not depressing, seeing a lot of hate for SRAM gears which is fine, all the more for me.

I'll take CB's pedals all the time too just pedals never come specced on a proper bike

Mostly it just tells me why buying a fully built bike can be a false economy. When people knock brands for selling £6k bikes but in reality to get what they want it will cost that to swap out all the cheap accountant specced parts.

Bikes with "funny" names that aren't made by Kona.

Yup any thing Sram except for rockshok forks. Avid, Truvative, Sram are all shite IMO.

BB91/2; cant even fit an adaptor to fit a square taper bb and chainset - ie bb that will last a decade.

Lifeless CEN steel frames.

Any headtube standard that's not 44mm or standard 1 1/8". Don't understand why any 51/56/86mm headtubes are needed.

Any thing other than 31.8mm bars - do we [i]really[/i] need another standard.

This thread is why I have never bought a 'built' bike. Did get a Spesh Hardrock for my wife but all that's left of that now is the frame, seatpost, stem and bars.

FWIW stuff I wouldn't spec on a build - Shimano gearing (I just like the SRAM 'clunk'), a non-Reverb dropper, Fox forks (irrational...), a stem longer than 70mm (50mm is ideal), or non lock-on grips.

Shows that people can tell genuine innovations that have improved the way we ride from pointless marketing driven toss.

750mm bars?

Anyway, how did we get from:

[img] [/img]

To:

[img] [/img]

if it wasn't by a whole series of people, over many years, sticking their neck out and making something new, something that perhaps not everyone will accept at the time.

Sure, some of it was / will turn out to be rubbish. But for Darwinism to work, you need enough stuff in the gene pool in the first place. How can we make a selection when the choice is 1?

With the increase in wheel size and reduction in gear ratios, looks like we're heading back towards the top pic anyway.

Yeh, the top bike is probably what the STW groupthink would come up with as the perfect bike 🙂

That bike is definitely haunted.

And made by Jeff Jones.

nikk - Member - Quote
750mm bars?

My general impression of STW designing a bike would involve 60degree head angles, 1 fat & 1 skinny wheel with the other one being in between. 26/29" single/multi pivot suspension rigid on one side and 100mm & 160mm on the others running a hub geared single 30speed setup with no mechs & 2 all wrapped up into one mad package.

2am Chanel 5 (or lower free to air satellite channel) Build YOur Dream Bike, members of an internet forum get to design their own perfect bike with help from expert frame builders.
Episode 1 - the expert frame builders walk out in protest

I'm depressed now...my bike has fox forks, press fit bb, internal routing, 650b & made from carbon! No avid or SRAM though

deal breaker was that it must be 150 mm plus travel & stiffer forks than 32s

so much fashionable hate of avid brakes, if you know how to bleed them properly they are utterly reliable and more powerful than lots of more trendy stoppers the X0 trail brakes i have make xt brakes feel like rim brakes that have just been ridden through a muddy puddle, ditto for sram, X9 and X0 stuff is superb. most CB stuff is total gash though.

i am not buying another mtb frame until the wheel size business is sorted.

I don't buy complete bikes because I like what I like and not many bikes come with the combos I want.

With regards to the spare hanger thing, my Banshee frame came with one. And some big stickers!

I'm a big fan of Sram gears because I like the clunk. It also means much easier to set up and doesn't get too affected by mud and cable stretch. I ripped a bike with the latest XT stuff on it and the shifting action was too light for me. My old X0 on the BFe has a lovely clunky, definitive action.

I can't really comment on Avid brakes because I've never had them, but I do remember when they could do no wrong. I like Shimano brakes so will keep using them.

I also like my Fox forks. I've had three pairs of coil ones and they've all been faultless. I'd much rather them than RS which I just don't like the feel of (and I've never forgiven them for the Pyslo).

I can see how internally routed cables would be a pain, but have never had a bike with them.

Most have been mentioned, but one that really gets my goat is proprietary shocks. A custom tune is required, but why the need to make them an odd size?

Specialized are the worst for this. It's not like they are using their own shock, make them a common size you muppets!

I can't think of a bike from any of the big manufacturers that gets everything right.

Specialized with the shocks, giant with overdrive headset bollocks and lack of iscg, cannondale with integrated headsets, trek with their daft drcv shock.

And now the all singing all dancing 650b.........

Some good deal-breakers that I hadn;t considered on here. My list is getting longer.

Why bike companies don't put cable rub protection on frames baffles me, especially on expensive carbon MTB frames which are prone to abrasion. Wouldn't be surprised if we do start to see it in a year or two maybe.

With regards to the spare hanger thing, my Banshee frame came with one. And some big stickers!

b45her - Member
so much fashionable hate of avid brakes, if you know how to bleed them properly they are utterly reliable

really?, in the alps last year one of us had elixirs (he was quite a big chap) and they were useless, we were staying with a former sram technician who said the same thing - rebled them several times eventually someone lent his a crappy hayes brake, it was less powerful but they didnt stop working half way down the mountain

With regards to the spare hanger thing, my Banshee frame came with one. And some big stickers!

My ltc came up stickers, hanger, grease gun & T-shirt, the missus got all that and socks with hers!!

It probably costs the companies peanuts to do, but I like it. The box of bits was a post, seat clamp, flip chips for fiddling with the angles, spare hanger, massive bundle of zip ties and stickers. Others frames I've bought have cone with sweet FA.

I forgot to add in the silly shocks Spesh spec. The new Pivot DH bike uses a similar wishbone thing to drive the shock but rather than attach directly to the shock, its got a bolt so you're not restricted. Spesh are bad for using silly sized shocks too which makes it impossible to find a new one ( a la my SX Trail).

I love avid brakes and fox forx.
Also what exactly is the problem with press fit bb's?

The price. Other than the OO El Guapo, and out of the box trail machine seems to RRP at £2500 - £2700 these days, with an OEM fork and SLX. And even then you'd be lucky to get one sub 30lb.

Whatever happened to the £1800 27lb do it all bikes*?

*inflation I know,

Also what exactly is the problem with press fit bb's?

questionable longevity

difficult to swap over at home

can't clamp a chain device with one if your frame has no iscg mounts (or if the ISCG bolts foul your chainring anyway)

It being orange in colour
Being aluminium
Having a history of frame breakages
Raceface cranks - they squeak and fall off ...
Continental tyres - if I am being fussy

All of my Race Face cranks have been great with the exception if my Deus XC cranks that did have a habit of going a bit wobbly. I never have issues with Shimano cranks aside from the price these days...I can't get my head round XT cranks with an rrp of two hundred quid. More than decent RF cranks which I've always seen as a bit more exotic but that may be because I'm stuck in the late nineties!

I guess Manitou suspension would be a no no for me. SPV damping was evil.

Cheapo Conti tyres are the devils work too...the lack of grip is bordering in dangerous.

I wish I knew enough about MTBs to understand and contribute to this thread. Only owned one bike - good old trek HT. Clean it, maintain it and repair it as necessary. Then just ride it! Wouldn't know an avid from anything else!!! Could tell from demos why other bikes were better and why 29ers would suit me better, but not enough to spend the £s. I just enjoy getting out and riding.

Deal breakers - piss-take pricing, the whole wheel size debate. Both will settle down in next 18-24months and then I can think about a new bike perhaps?

Anything that isn't a Yeti.

Any bike model named after a sex act or rude body part and has the name in massive letters somewhere on it. (That's basically all Coves then... Handjob, Stiffy. Very amusing if you're 13 years old)

Most Konas (because of the daft names)

Anything with less than 10 cogs on the back (unless it's an internal geared hub)

I tend to buy frames and build up with carefully chosen parts. I like Sram rear mech, cassettes and shifters, Shimano BB and Crank. Crank must have steel rings (2 x 10), Sram chain, Avid brakes. Shimano spd pedals (cheap, easy to use, solid, reliable, CHEAP). Split tube ghetto tubeless.