Instead of arguing about why no-one posts about bikes I thought we could talk about bikes.
I think the answer to this is a 140mm trail bike priced between £2k and £3k but I'm prepared to debate the bike but not so much the budget. 🤔
I like a bargain/happy with a last year or before model and I also keep bikes quite a while. Usual riding is South Downs/ Hampshire, Queen Elizabeth park.
Trips away would be trail centres, rocky natural stuff in bigger hills (e.g. around Edale), the odd day at BPW on the easier end of the grading (definitely no black stuff). I don't do free ride, downhill, any kind of enduro racing.
I'm fairly "solid" and I dislike noodly feeling stuff.
Options so far all in budget and on sale in my size somewhere.
- Merida One Forty 700 or 6000 (2023)
- Saracen Ariel 30 Pro
- Orbea Occam SL or LT
- Whyte T140 RS
- Santa Cruz Tallboy 5R 2023
Should I be tempted to go bigger? I seem to be having a bit of a skills/confidence step up as I get perilously closer to the end of my 40s but I can't imagine I'll get to a point of pushing the boundaries of a 160mm bike but maybe that's not the point? I've never actually ridden anything that big. Maybe I should give it a go before I get too slow to recover from inevitable injuries.
The Camber is staying for the benefit of my bike nabbing offspring so we can still ride together so I'd have access to that for solo riding.
I still think a 130-140mm bike is the best all rounder - but it depends on your usage plans and local terrain. 3 of my last 4 full suss bikes have been in this category and for most rides they feel spot on. My other bike was a 110mm Camber 29 from 2013 and that too was surprisingly capable for a lot of UK riding and I even used it in the Alps, but obviously it ran out of capability a good bit earlier.
That said, I might be tempted by a bit more travel next time out - A to try it having never owned a longer travel bike, and B to get a bit more capability on the downs as long as the uphill ability isn’t ruined.
I would have thought all the bikes on your list would be great - but the Tallboy stands out as being more XC than the rest, especially if you’re weighing up going for a bit more travel.
If you go for a bit more travel, take a look at the Stumpjumper 15 and latest Trek Fuel Ex - they are 140-150mm bikes with a bit more weight to them but still review well for climbing - and I think they have alloy models starting around 3k even before any deals. My brother has the alloy stumpy 15 and it seems a good bike - compared to my old gen carbon one it is a fair bit heavier but also more capable on the downs.
At 50 I bought an Aether 7 which was was well specced with a 150 Pike and 130 Cane Creek coil out back. I did the biggest things I've ever done on that bike so I as long as the geometry is right it won't hold you back, it just won't be quite as smooth when things get chunky.
The conundrum as always is that less travel doesn't mean a massive difference in weight and if it doesn't change the weight by much would you be better off with more travel. And capable tyres aren't light whatever bike you choose 🙂
After the Aether I bought an Airdrop Edit and maxxed that out at 170 both ends but ended up coming back to 160/160, for the kind of riding I do, ie, not high speed bike parky stuff, it just feels better to me.
I have a Mondraker Raze Carbon R and it pretty much covers most of the bases for me (they do an alu version which definitely fits the budget but you may find some deals on the carbon version). I use it for general trail riding and I've ridden it on big days out on the downs, BPW and did the QECP Southern Enduro on it last year. It's a very capable bike.
Saying all that I did just buy a second hand Santa Cruz Megatower v2, I probably didn't need it but I wanted it and justified it to myself by saying I'd use it for bike park trips and will probably use it for some of the SE rounds. I'll probably stick some forekasters on the Raze now and use it as more of a xc/trail bike.
One thing to add, the second hand market for non ebikes is pretty good, my megatower is the most tricked out bike I've ever owned and is in mint condition and that was £2k for a 2-3 year old bike that was probably north of £8k new.
but the Tallboy stands out as being more XC than the rest, especially if you’re weighing up going for a bit more travel.
As a Tallboy 5 owner, I'd agree. Superb bike and more capable than 120mm at the rear should be, but if you're already considering something with more travel then it might be a bit lacking. But if I only owned one bike I'd be happy if it was a Tallboy. The £3k ones at Merlin appear good value but I echo the comments about secondhand market being good (as a buyer) at the moment.
Cannondale Habit (and Habit LT) are worth a look. I bought the non-LT model (140f/130r) for my mini a11ys a few months ago and impressed with the overall quality. Plenty of variety HERE all with at least 50% off, and no extra fees - I bought two from here.
I have a Bird Aether 9 (130/150, so evens out to 140mm!).
I love it. Doesn't feel too big on local loops (and that could be improved even more with lighter wheels and tyres, mine are quite chunky) but it's plenty good enough for me on steep tech and jumps. Though I should add, I'm rubbish on steep tech and jumps.
Probably helps that I've come from a 150mm 26er, so the geometry is very different.
I got a great deal on mine as well.
I'm about to order a Whyte T140RS.
I've always prioritised hardtail riding but can't deny the fun of riding a full suss, but I've never enjoyed long travel / DH bikes - they just suck all the fun out of it (for me). I still want the trails to come alive...
That said, Whyte appear to be out of stock in my size so hoping to find one somewhere. 2nd on the list is a Canyon Spectral.
the "more travel doesn't cost any more or weigh any more" argument does forget that those bigger travel bikes are generally slacker in the head tube and longer in wheelbase. And so can end up feeling dull and boring on less crazy trails.
Obviously everyone has a different opinion and limit, so YMMV - and I always like to point out that my little 5010 has the same angles and length as the Iron Horse of Sam Hill's DH heyday.
I don't know much about the other bikes on your list, but I got a used tallboy (2021) last year and if I could only have one bike to do everything (other than DH bikeparks), this would be it. It is much more capable descending than I expected any 120/130mm bike to be, but is still happy pedalling all day. (Perfect for big pedally surrey hills days, and better at Redlands than my Nomad, assuming you have ridden both hopefully that helps)
Travel isn't everything- you could have a bike with more travel but worse geometry thats worse at descending. The tallboy happens to have more agressive geo than most 120mm bikes. I find trails more often get 'hard' because of the gradient rather than the size of the bumps = good geo is more important than outright travel
Given the use case, I would also recommend the Tallboy.
It doesn’t do anything really fancy, but it does just work well. They often get compared to XC bikes or stuff in the Downcountry (urgh) space but you me it’s always been a short travel trail bike, that can be built ‘close’ to most modern XC bike weight if you really wanted to. It certainly doesn’t ride like a 120mm bike & hell, If you want to, Chuck a cascade link on there to bump it up to 130mm & put a 150mm fork on it & you have a great mini Hightower.
If you want a bit more, the latest (gen 7?) Fuel is a really good bike, and highly adaptable.
How do you get on with shorter more XC bikes, something like a Scott spark for example? Put a non-race tyre on these bikes and they rule for the UK hills, but of course it's personal preference and depends a lot on where you will ride most. I definitely wouldn't be going bigger in general, like 160mm, based on what you have said.
The Peak is an unusual mix of physical hardbastardness and technical ease, I ride there a lot and can't stand to pedal anything big there, and even a trail bike feels like you're nerfing 95% of the ride.
i am in a similar boat. Went from short travel trail (norco optic) to a big enduro bike (raaw madonna) and a XC/light trail bike (specialized Chisel FS). I want to amalgamate these back down to a single 'do it all' bike. So am on the hunt again for a trail bike. But am erring more towards the slightly shorter travel, but still fairly aggressive bikes. I have looked at the Tallboy, and Transition Spur, the new Forbidden Reya and the Allied Fitz. But the gen 3 Norco Optic is currently top of the list.
And whilst many bigger bikes pedal well these days, there is still something about riding a shorter travel bike down the same tracks. Line choice, holding on for dear life, making the most of what you got is far more exciting to me than a pure plough machine.
Merida One Forty 700 or 6000 (2023)
Eldest has Merida One-Sixty 800. While 3x warranty issues have been shock and fork specific (it runs DVO), the recently cracked main pivot is Merida issue. The bike is 7 months old. Eldest is a rather gnarly rider and lives in Queenstown, but it says everything that his previous Rocky Mountain (4 years and HUUUUGE amount of riding in Scotland, Alps and Queenstown) has been dusted down and pressed back into service with no issues at all.
If you are 6ft+ then this is a pretty good buy.. https://www.bird.bike/product/warehouse-clearance-special-aether-9c-gloss-black-complete/
I have ridden plenty of longer travel bikes - but keep coming back to around 130mm and that is what I have owned.
I think modern geometry, 29 wheels, phat 2.4 modern tyres and general refinement of suspension action means that a shorter travel trail bike is way better than older bikes - sort of compensating for less travel.
Orange Stage Evo here. Absolute hoot of a bike without feeling slow or wallowy.
Have a search on here for threads:
https://www.wideopenmountainbike.com/2021/01/tested-bens-orange-stage-evo-rs-review
Another tallboy recommendation. I use it all the time in the peaks and it’s fine for all but the steepest off piste stuff. You can always over fork it to 140mm if you want a bit more front end squish.
For UK riding, I think "front end squish" is the only travel number that matters, or is the limiting factor. The feel of the rear travel is far more important than worrying about +-10mm of movement back there. Whereas when you get into a situation where you're "underforked" you find out fast!
I think I'd still favour a Hightower over a Tallboy as a do it all bike personally. My 2016 Hightower is 135 rear / 150 front, which I find just about perfect for XC/trail/couple of uplifts a year. If I was buying now, I'd personally prefer to go up to 150 rear (Hightower), than dropping to 120 rear (Tallboy). That's based on never having ridden either of them though, so probably safe to ignore me 🙂
I'd be looking very seriously at that this if I didn't have a V2 already.
Agree with the geometry comments. Travel numbers don't mean that much, a 130mm bike will feel similar to a 160mm bike with the same geometry.
I think a trail bike should have 65 degrees or slacker head angle and 76 or steeper seat angle for good climbing.
After that you can make tyre choices to trade off weight/robustness.
I used to have a 140mm/140mm Jeffsy, and to be honest the only place I felt underbiked was in the Alps.
I now have a 160mm/150mm Stumpjumper Evo and a 140mm hardtail. The Stumpie is a great bike, but it's massively overbiked for most of the stuff I do in the UK, and if second hand bike values weren't currently so pants, I'd have probably sold it.
I'd be looking very seriously at that this if I didn't have a V2 already.
That's a good find! If I wasn't already happy with my Tallboy I'd very much be seriously considering one of those. Intrigued by high pivot combined with shorter travel since briefly owning a Deviate and feeling it over-biked even at 140mm.
Likely covers quite a spectrum of trail-type riding.
I've never ridden one, but always liked the look of the Canyon Spectral for UK riding; 140mm each end & good value for money.
They also do the Spectral 125 which is 140mm front end with a 125mm back end.
Orbea Occam SL or LT
Loved riding my Occam (2021?) In the dry but it was hateful in the wet. Made such a racket that I'd actually dismount and carry through occasional puddles rather than endure it.
The main pivot ate itself twice. First time was a warranty chainstay and second time they replaced the whole frame and shock. It's ok so far but TBH I've not ridden it much due to injuries.
To reiterate the bike rode really well, but ...
In the standard recommended what you ride and if you're tall then this is a bit of a bargain.
Rear wheel is crap but at that price you can get an okay bargain wheel set.
https://www.rmcycles.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/gt-sensor-carbon-pro-le-sea-green-2024__23304
Trail bike with 140-160 at the from and 140-150 at the back is capable enough for big mountains and more fun on the UK trails most of us spend most of our time riding.
others have mentioned geometry but rear suspension kinematics are usually what defines bike purpose rather than travel these days (there are 160mm trail bikes that will have firmer rear suspension than a 160mm enduro bike).
I thought I’d replied, but maybe it was removed with it being a stealth ad….
Im selling my Cannondale Habit Carbon SE shortly (now got an eeb). It’ll be well within your budget. Drop me a PM if you might be interested. It’s the 2017 model, 27.5 wheel, lots of upgrades and in great condition.
I'm Surrey/Hampshire border so ride the same places (work 15 mins from QECP so evening laps there in the summer are regular) and I've effectively replaced my 100mm XC full-sus (SC Blur) and 150/140mm 29er full-sus (Cotic Jeht with a fairly beefy build) with a Bird Aether 7 which is 150fr 130rr 27.5" and firmly in the Trail Bike category and it's done just what I hoped.
I say effectively replaced as I haven't actually got rid of the others yet but the thought was there.
As a Sarcen Ariel 30 Elite owner can confirm it's a ripper of a bike.
Have been to BPW a couple of times & never felt under biked, obviously a bigger bike would be nicer for such places, but given my limited time at them it's fine.
Love it in MX wheel format too - that Cy at Cotic is onto something with the new Jeht.
Thanks all just finished my working day so will have a proper read after dinner. 👍
How do you get on with shorter more XC bikes, something like a Scott spark for example? Put a non-race tyre on these bikes and they rule for the UK hills
I did look that way BUT my (32mm) Rebas on the Camber feel a bit insubstantial at times and there's not many bikes in that space with a decently beefy fork.
That strength/robustness was a significant part of the reason for looking up a travel bracket to put me into stiffer forks.
I think this thread has definitely switched me off anything over 140mm out back and maybe I want less not more. I definitely don't want a potential barge on the local stuff. It's got to pedal decently as quite a lot of my riding has a great deal of pedalling and odd as it seems I like an interesting climb too.
The Camber has been great and if it was boost and had clearance for a 2.4 out back I would be tempted to just put a slightly longer and burlier fork in it.
Also where do you shop for second hand good bikes now.
Other than buying from friends I don't think I've bought one in 30 years!
My son just got a very nice 2022 Spectral CF 8 on Pinkbike. It's 160mm/150mm but it feels much more playful than my Cube Stereo, the Cube requires a bit more rider input to make it fun. On the downside I think the Canyon would get me in trouble more quickly, you want to push it hard.
I think this thread has definitely switched me off anything over 140mm out back and maybe I want less not more. I definitely don't want a potential barge on the local stuff. It's got to pedal decently as quite a lot of my riding has a great deal of pedalling and odd as it seems I like an interesting climb too.
Wheels/tyres have a lot to add as well. I did a big-ish day Saturday on my Optic in the Quantocks, swapped the beefy wheels and soft Hutch Griffus tyres for the lighter wheels and new Trail Barzo from the SS (both DT hubs, and matchy discs, so just a freehub swap between the two)
Handled nicely as per normal in the steeps (with some care in the corners) but it pedalling was a joy on the rolling XC stuff. Like you say you can get forks, frame, wheels to suit your weight, then tyres to suit the terrain.
I did start work early today, so that may explain why this post should have been on the “cheap full sus” thread….
Also where do you shop for second hand good bikes now.
Other than buying from friends I don't think I've bought one in 30 years!
Apparently STW has classifieds, but no one has used it for last few years since an 'update'.
So Pink bike.
Im going to follow Hobnobs Tallboy suggestion and say The Tallboy is way way bigger than its numbers . Im due to go to Slovenia in 7 weeks and will toying with taking my Tallboy v5 over my mega v2 . I run it with 150 lyriks and in the low setting with a fox float x . Its a little rocketship . Fast fun and proper light . I would say close to all the bike needed for most Uk riders ..
As an Orange fan theres only one recommendation I'll make and thats the Stage Evo (someone mentioned it above). I had a quick spin on one but ultimately decided I wanted more travel for Alps trips etc when I got a new bike at the end of last year but it was a superb bike - just too close to my old Five. Sunset I think had the model with full XT and Fox Factory suspension/dropper for £2500 or something - an absolute bargain.
That said, height dependent, that Bird looks like a bargain even if its been struck by the ugly stick (and bearing in mind my first 4 words above, thats saying something!) or those Santa Cruz Merlin have in are cheap cheap.
I have nearly bought a Tallboy on at least two occasions for similar reasons to the OP. Just wanted something light-ish but with enough travel and the right Geo to be a genuine all rounder. Never would have been my only bike. Ended up with a Stif close out sale 5010 which was my first MX bike. I do really like it and it fills the role of a bike you can ride anywhere very well. It's a bit heavy I guess compared to other bikes of similar travel but I don't really care about that.
Liked the MX so much, I bought one of those Merlin V4 Bronson's a few months later 🙂
After picking up a Spesh Chisel to accompany the Enduro sled, I would say less travel is the way to go. I've always been curious by a tallboy but with a fox 36 or lyrik on it a 140mm travel. Happy shopping!
Oh my 5010 was (just) in OPs budget, but it was an ex-demo and, as I said, part of their close out sale. I've seen a few on PB for about that tho. Depends if OP only wants "New". That GT looks a lot of bike for the money.
That strength/robustness was a significant part of the reason for looking up a travel bracket to put me into stiffer forks.
Or add stiffer fork to a shorter-travel bike. I can't claim credit for the 37mm stanchioned Mezzer Pro at 140mm on my Tallboy (build specced by the original owner). Totally OTT and still <2,100g, but it widens the bike's ability range for sure. Same fork can be adjusted to 170mm.
Im going to follow Hobnobs Tallboy suggestion and say The Tallboy is way way bigger than its numbers . Im due to go to Slovenia in 7 weeks and will toying with taking my Tallboy v5 over my mega v2 . I run it with 150 lyriks and in the low setting with a fox float x . Its a little rocketship . Fast fun and proper light . I would say close to all the bike needed for most Uk riders ..
Yes (and a tiny bit of no). I mostly ride a Tallboy with 140 fork and I'd happily take it for a riding holiday in the Alps if it's all I had. However, riding my Geometron on my local trails the past few rides has reminded me the Tallboy's good, but it's still outgunned on bigger terrain! But as you say, it's close to all the bike that's needed for most UK riders. Most folk's riding isn't at the more extreme end of the spectrum.
I've never ridden one, but always liked the look of the Canyon Spectral for UK riding; 140mm each end & good value for money.
They also do the Spectral 125 which is 140mm front end with a 125mm back end.
They increased the travel a bit, then reduced it in the next iteration, but geometry fundamentally the same. I've owned both 125 and regular version and they're excellent, and ride very similarly to eachother. Not sure about UK but in EU they have some sort of sale every 6 weeks, worth keeping an eye.
@nedrapier - do you have the gen 3 Optic? or still rocking the gen 2? If you have the gen 3, how do you like it? I am on the cusp of buying one.
Should be some good discounts on the Tallboy soon, as the Tallboy 6 is about to drop (or so i hear).
PJay posted up a 140mm GT Sensor in the PSA Thread
