That'll be me, then. Sorry, everyone. I need to chill out.
Commuting: woman in a Subaru nearly blasts through a stop (outside a primary school at drop-off time, no less) and nearly into me. I just shake my head disapprovingly and carry on. 100m later, she's behind me coming up to a mini (but built up) roundabout, she squeezes up next to me and then between me and the roundabout, forcing me off the edge and into a curb. I'm furious, I yell, but what good will it do?
Another few minutes up the road, she's there, suck behind a bin lorry. "What luck!" shouts the little devil on my shoulder. I smash her wing mirror and give her the finger and ride off.
I still feel bad about this hours later, it was absolutely not the right thing to do. Even as I was doing it I was like "Mate, wtf are you doing?" I need to learn to chill out and move on and stop behaving like a bell end.
Drivers around here are truly awful, and it feels like I have close calls on a daily basis, even mostly riding defensively on back streets and bike lanes. It doesn't feel sustainable to have these mini battles every day. I'd take public transport to work if I could (1hr30 commute, anyone?), anything to keep away from these horrid people.
How are we dealing with this, because I'm clearly not coping very well and probably shouldn't be riding in such a constant rage. Bikes are fun, and these kooks are taking it away from me.
I kicked a wing mirror off after having a milkshake thrown at me. Zero regrets.
I kicked another one off after a passenger shot a firework at me and I chased them into a dead end.
I once threw a BMX through a car windscreen but there was a bit more going on that time and I knew the driver.
I never ride on the road or near traffic anymore if I can help it.
We didn’t have a good name, as cyclists are responsible for holding up cars and every other evil you can imagine.
i generally don’t react to cars as you don’t know how much of a psycho the driver is.
i generally don’t react to cars as you don’t know how much psycho the driver is.
This
I stopped at a set of lights just changing to red, was missed by inches as the driver behind floored it to get through. I gave him a well-known hand gesture and he slammed the brakes on, parked in the pavement on the opposite side of the junction and jumped out obviously looking to get back across the junction and beat me up.
Thankfully traffic was too heavy for him to get across although the irony of being in such a hurry to jump the lights but have enough time to get out and start a fight wasn't lost on me.
I turned around and rode off in a different direction.
I used to ride home from work with a mate sometimes and I stopped doing it for the sheer amount of time he'd react to drivers, bang on cars, try to argue the toss with them at lights... It was all too much stress and he never got any sort of positive result out of it.
i generally don’t react to cars as you don’t know how much psycho the driver is.
Yup. I do sometimes think should have a camera but outside of that possibilities they will:
Just ignore it - so not worth the effort
Acknowledge the mistake and so not repeat it - whilst possible basically **** all chance.
Not understand why and conclude cyclists are ****s and so respond accordingly in future.
Since I am a driving god I will ignore them since it was them to blame.
Since I am a driving god I will use the hidden chapters of the highway code and attack them until they acknowledge their fault.
Two dangerous passes spring to mind.
One was a muppet who a few hundred metres after passing me badly repeated the same exercise with a car on a sightless bend and only thanks to the driver on the other side avoided a crash.
The other passed me and then shortly after their reverse light came on as well as a really healthy sounding noise.
Selecting the right gear was clearly on the list of lessons they needed to get to alongside safe passing distance.
I dont think in either case me going nuts would have helped but admittedly it was helped by, in the first case, the driver who almost headonned them doing so and in the second me almost crashing from laughing too much.
Question for Andeh: The second and third incidents with the same driver, were they targetted at you do you think, or just further examples of poor Subarumanship?
Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with venting at someone who has driven a tonne of metal and plastic in such a way as to endanger another person.
I think front and rear cameras are the only practical solution. Getting mad at the time helps no-one, least of all your own blood pressure. My brother (lives in mid Wales, so hardly urban) has had footage which has resulted in a number of successful prosecutions.
However, your option of removing the wing mirror seems pretty reasonable in the circumstances. Don't feel bad about it. I've done the same to cars parked on the pavement when I've been walking or running. Meh, I just shrug and say "Road is for vehicles, pavement is for pedestrians"
Question for Andeh:...
I don't know. I try to think that people are just ignorant, rather than willfully aggressive, but who knows. The car was already covered in scratches and dents, so possibly just someone who shouldn't be in charge of a vehicle 🙄
I've decided I'm not allowed to have a word.
Time one- the bloke said sorry and was completely reasonable. I still wasn't happy. What more could I ask for? So that was stupid of me.
Time two- the bloke swore at me shot off through a red light, almost causing a crash and was still accelerating hard when I couldn't hear the car. Maybe 70 mph in a 30? A lucky escape.
Time three- went to catch-up and have a word and the car suddenly slowed down with no brake light. Maybe the hand brake or down a gear. I almost went into the back of the car and I would have been my idiocy engaging with an idiot.
So at some point someone is going to give me a right smack and as I'm completely soft, anyone with a bit of aggression in them will give me a very bad day.
So I've decided I'm not ever allowed to have a word. If it's that bad I will just have to drive like everyone else.
Deciding this has made life much easier. It's made me calmer. It's made the decision for me when I'm not angry/ threatened or not thinking straight. I don't want to talk to a person who drives like an aggressive ****. Because at some point it's going to end very badly.
Try that. You might like it. It might not work for you, try it for a week maybe you will.gain some piece of mind.
I commute most days (when in the office, so three or four days a week) I've been badly broken by car drivers a few times (spine was the worse - off work 7 months lucky to walk). I still commute. I ride more off road routes where possible, but coming home, I use the road as the scallies are out of bed (got attacked 2 years ago at 5pm on a busy shared path). I take my time in the traffic, ride primary. Leave all the silly students in the evening to get themselves run over as I pass through Fallowfield (total defensive cycling from getting crashed into from idiot cyclists, not cars).
I shout occasionally, "Whoah" etc. That driver won't have a bloody clue why she lost a wing mirror though, oblivious.
The schools run lot are a nightmare near work - pull up on double reds. complained to the school, and got a lengthy pre-written email about what they do. The schools give no shits - and I wrote it from my Uni email address up the road.
Ride defensively, and if you need to get some training in, do it on the quiet sections of the commute. Busy stuff, drop the speed, and ride like you'll get wiped out. I am 56 now, so preaching to my younger self that was like a whizz through traffic....once.
Please do not shoot me, but there can be a cultural issue with cyclists.
I ride through some areas, where a cyclist is seen as a poor person and shouldn't be on the road, and the drivers are in middle of the range Mercs/BMW's etc. I've had them just pull out on me and nearly drive into me, only the fact I have shouted 'wow' and not been able to get out of the way - I was ignored as a low life. PS this is not racist, it's what I see, just like I see young lads/girls driving aggressively, and some school mums being massively angry people, but there are others whose driving standards do not include allowing for a poor person on a bike.
Add in delivery bike riders and we are all scum.
On two occasions I have snatched a mobile telephone off a driver.
Van driver talking on it. Caught him up at some lights, tapped on his passenger window to speak to him and he wound it down. Noticed it on the passenger seat so took it and hurled it as far as I could and then rode off. No way was he catching me in Edinburgh traffic and I was only a few hundred yards from a turn you wouldn't get a vehicle down.
Other one a woman texting at the wheel, I was running. She stopped in some traffic trying to turn into a side street. I tapped on the driver's window, she still had it in her hand. Brief chat before I snatched it, threw it to the ground and stamped on it, and then ran off through the Meadows.
The only occasions I've caused damage and on neither occasion did I think they stood any chance of catching up with me. I always challenge drivers I see them on their telephones when I can, whether I'm on the bike or on foot. I wish more people would do so too, it's the thing which scares me most about being on the roads.
i generally don’t react to cars as you don’t know how much psycho the driver is.
Having been to court and discovered the driver I had an altercation with had a list of previous assault charges, so much this. He got a year in prison. Came out after 6 months, and beat someone else up.
I also drive a van - OK - car van (has seats) - looks like a van but has blacked out windows on the sides that you can't see from the front/back. I drive at the speed limit - got a handy heads up display I don't drive like a tool. You'll still get people trying to push past you etc or be idiots. Thing is this van has 400 nm under the bonnet, so when needed it will get out of the way very quickly. I like it as who is going to push a two tonne van out of the way ?
I reported a driver once, went as 'information' - the car had a list of 'complaints' against it, but no CCTV at the time. The cops were helpful.
PS I ride the same routes commuting, so being an ass is not wise. I did have a very distinctive bike once, not now, it's grey.
There was quite a bad crash on Wirral this morning. Two Harleys and a van. Three serious injuries.
Blame? Cycle lanes according to Farcebook comments. I ride off road as much as I can.
PS I ride the same routes commuting, so being an ass is not wise. I did have a very distinctive bike once, not now, it's grey.
This is a pretty critical one too. On a commute, it's the same people at the same times in the same places. There's an art to being visible but never memorable. Nothing distinctive about you or the bike. Or something that you can get rid of / change easily like a hivis gilet.
I've always tried to vary my commute wherever possible. The other thing is to know your escape route options - where are the nearest alleyways, one way streets, parks, busy areas etc where you can get away should it be necessary.
Aye, the local majority is adamant that the issues with traffic in the town would be solved if they pulled out the bike lanes and made every street 6 lanes wide.
I'm not sure recording or submitting complaints to the police would do much around here (Yorkshireman in Vancouverish, BC). Saw a Twitter post from the local police yesterday: they had successfully stopped and ticketed a 19y.o. new driver for going 3 times over the speed limit (146km/h in a 50km/h ... so equivalent to nearly going a ton in a 30 zone)...the penalty...car impounded for 1 week and a $368 (200quid?) fine. It's a ****ing joke.
the same people at the same times in the same places. There's an art to being visible but never memorable.
I've ridden the same commute for 7 years, previous commute for 5, and before that 6 years.
Ive never needed an escape route. Other than smashing stuff, is it a normal thing to need an escape route?
There was quite a bad crash on Wirral this morning. Two Harleys and a van. Three serious injuries.Blame? Cycle lanes according to Farcebook comments. I ride off road as much as I can
I don't think there's anything wrong with venting at someone who has driven a tonne of metal and plastic in such a way as to endanger another person.
The thing that's "wrong" with it is you may get your face rearranged or attacked with a vehicle. I'm not immune to providing audible "feedback" but I try hard not to.
You have to remember that there's people out there driving round in a coke fuelled fog of rage and invincibility. The kind of scum who will punishment pass and verbally abuse a child cycling to school.
One of our neighbours has direct experience of being ok the wrong end of weaponisation of a vehicle (thankfully the insurer coughed up for the injuries and a criminal conviction for the driver).
Blame? Cycle lanes according to Farcebook comments. I ride off road as much as I can.
Cycle lanes! There is nothing you can do with these people.
Other one a woman texting at the wheel, I was running. She stopped in some traffic trying to turn into a side street. I tapped on the driver's window, she still had it in her hand. Brief chat before I snatched it, threw it to the ground and stamped on it, and then ran off through the Meadows.
I dream of doing this.
I tried it with a truck drivers key once, but it didn't come out - needed the clutch or something probably.
It's generally pointless having a go, although sometimes people have genuinely been apologetic to me saying they hadn't realised.
The best outcomes i've had have been where there's a company name on the vehicle. Three times I've called and asked for the most senior person and had a good chat and they of course tell me how they will get on to the drivers. One time I was almost knocked off the road by a big earthworks truck from a local company. I called and asked if he had two trucks on so-and-so road at 6am. He said yes - what's happened? I asked if the drivers were married and how he would feel if he had to call up and tell their wives bad news... because that could have been what my boss would have had to do. He was really good about it (once he realised nobody was dead). The next week in the paper I saw he was advertising for drivers - not necessarily connected.
I think it was a bit much. Kicking off the mirror and all. Maybe just open the door, shout at them, leave it open, lift off a wiper.
I ride defensively, so dont really get much abuse and would rather hang back. No rush, no issue.I reckon eventually they'll end up on the receiving end of a prang or talking to the cops. Probably both
Only had one run in with a car, though off the bike. Some guy in a black convertible BMW just at the services near Manchester. He came screeching through the car park,nearly got me. I remonstrated with him verbally, he threatened to shoot me, i pulled out a meat cleaver and he went white and sped off.
I legged it too just in case he came back. Tis Manc' afterall and young guys in convertible black BMW's you should be wary of.
The driver won't have learned anything from the incident except that cyclists are (a rude word of your choosing). She won't be reflecting on her driving or be thinking of changing her ways. It will all be your fault, and by default, all cyclists.
Ive never needed an escape route. Other than smashing stuff, is it a normal thing to need an escape route?
I've only ever needed it once. South Manchester. I was behind a bus, couldn't overtake. The driver behind me was getting really irate because I was riding behind the rear right corner of the bus, looking to ride up the side of it when it pulled in and he was yelling that I should ride on the left.
He cut up the inside of me, tried to use his front wing to barge me right and into oncoming traffic. I kicked his car hard, dived through a gap in the traffic and into a park.
The guy was unhinged - he couldn't get any further up the road or go any faster because of the bus. Me being there had no impact on his driving speed.
As a general rule, I have very few dangerous interactions. I see ****ty driving routinely but very little of it has a direct effect on me and it's incredibly rare that I do anything more than think "****" and get on with my day.
But commuting through Manchester definitely hit the higher risk end of the spectrum. Even knowing escape routes to get away from potential muggers was worthwhile.
OP you didn't mention you're in Canada - it makes a difference because a) the drivers are SO much more oblivious and enforcement basically non-existent and b) even 'rough for Canada' isn't too too bad - I've been brake-checked a few times, but Canadians prefer to do their aggression inside their cars, rather than get out and start a stand up fight. But drivers on their mobile phones, speeding, drink driving and just totally not aware/ not caring who else might be on the road (including other cars) are so much worse in CA than the UK.
As you say though, swiping someone's mirror off is a Bad Idea; in the UK because you could get seriously punched, in Canada because the poor dears don't know what they did wrong in the first place. I like to think I'd tap on the window and give a verbal wake-up call, but the truth is I'd either be so wound up as to make a complete fool of myself, or out of breath and unable to string 2 words together.
Witnessed an incident between a car driver and a cyclist at the weekend. I was traffic, in a car, there was a decent amount of traffic, major A road known for cyclists being a little slower going up the climb, and there being solid lines preventing overtaking when it flattens due to hidden dips and blind bends, so a bit of a queue with some guys on road bikes interspersed.
Road levels off, car in front of me overtakes one of the cyclists and lobs a half full bottle of water at them. Misses fortunately, guy gestures a 'WTF' and carries on behind the car that overtook for the next couple of miles until he stopped at the club meeting point. A pretty level headed response by all accounts considering what could have happened if the bottle had gone under the wheels and caused a wobble.
We took it upon ourselves to report to the police, then put an appeal to the local cycle groups to find the cyclist and get him to report it too, which we did, and he is going to. The police seemed genuinely interested in doing something, we've been asked to go to a station and make a formal statement.
Hope the **** in the car gets a heavy fine. I can't help but think they'll be bemused as to why they should be punished.
ah bollocks but as no one else has said this and I think all responses are from men (could be wrong but hey). To the OP: this was a woman on her own in the car?
Obv no excuses for her dangerous behaviour and if she was aware of what she did, what you did may make her less likely to do it again (noting the "if"and the "may" in this sentence).
But for me as a one-time committed but now occasional commuter who's done a few things I'm not proud of (Inc reached in the window to drop car keys in the footwell of one red faced twit who'd made three beeping close passes because I wasn't in the comedy cycle lane. Actually I probably do sound a bit proud of that one.. wouldn't work with a modern keyless.), I'd avoid aggression physical or verbal to a woman on her own.
i'd not beat myself up about it but it's not a good look to only round on those you reckon are physically weaker than yourself (okay the car isn't but intimidation is between humans) . Better to risk the off-chance of meeting a psycho if you have to make the occasional point.
You have to remember that there's people out there driving round in a coke fuelled fog of rage and invincibility.
Don't forget the steroids too...
It seems like every time I get my confidence up to get back on the road, it's ruined by some **** in an oversized ego wagon. Had a quick lunchtime road ride today, came close to a head-on with a range rover driver (of course). Quite clearly on their phone as they were right over on my side of the road before swerving back over at the last second. I just don't enjoy road enough to risk it with the standard of driving and attitudes towards cyclists in this area.
I cycled to work in London for the best part of 10 years, and whenever someone did something really stupid that felt personal (which happened every so often though possibly less than you'd think) I'd get so incredibly wound up about it, and it would stick in my head for at least the rest of the evening if not for the next few days. I did not enjoy this.
Because of this, I took a conscious decision to just... not care. People will always do stupid things, and escalating the situation only made it worse for myself as well as for the other party. This made life way calmer, and helped reinforce my half hour cycle as something faintly relaxing that I used to separate myself from work, rather than a source of stress in its own right.
Yep. I've found it easier to be a bit zen in cities, because the traffic's always a bit mental, even if you're in a car - and there's always the next junction/ road hazard to worry about and focus your attention on, so you can more easily forget the clown who nearly wiped you out half a mile back. Whereas on country roads first off it feels like the speeds are more dangerous, and you've longer the stew.
I was trying to explain to the OH the ability you pick up to read the other road users: "you're just about to step off the kerb without looking; you actually need that exit over there, you just don't know it yet; you see me but for some reason want to prove a point" and so on
Actually I probably do sound a bit proud of that one.. wouldn't work with a modern keyless.), I'd avoid aggression physical or verbal to a woman on her own.
Of the two mobile telephones I've snatched and smashed, above, one was a male van driver, the other a female car driver. Both are equally likely to kill someone by not paying attention, possibly me, possibly someone else. I won't be sexist and will challenge mobile telephone use by whoever. If the woman was more scared than the man then maybe the chances of her doing it again are even less, which is the result we want.
Neither were on a commute though so I'm unlikely to see either ever again, I would be more restrained if I was doing the same ride at the same time every day, again regardless of the sex of the person concerned
The driver won't have learned anything from the incident except that cyclists are (a rude word of your choosing). She won't be reflecting on her driving or be thinking of changing her ways. It will all be your fault, and by default, all cyclists.
I think they'll have learned a lot from this, they know that annoying cyclists will cost them time and money which is all a bellend like that understands. They'll be very much more aware of cyclists going forward. Plus, they'll tell at least 10 other people about the incident and all of them will also be more aware of cyclists as a result. Fair play, I'd have done the same myself.
I would have zero concern for such a person's opinion of cyclists.
I ride through some areas, where a cyclist is seen as a poor person and shouldn't be on the road
Given where you said you ride, I live nearby and I completely understand this, To some folks in very large Mercs and Beamers you're literally nothing.
Yep. I've found it easier to be a bit zen in cities, because the traffic's always a bit mental, even if you're in a car - and there's always the next junction/ road hazard to worry about and focus your attention on, so you can more easily forget the clown who nearly wiped you out half a mile back. Whereas on country roads first off it feels like the speeds are more dangerous, and you've longer the stew.
I was trying to explain to the OH the ability you pick up to read the other road users: "you're just about to step off the kerb without looking; you actually need that exit over there, you just don't know it yet; you see me but for some reason want to prove a point" and so on
Completely agree on both points. Since moving out of London I've basically given up road riding because the road surfaces are so poor, traffic when it's there is much faster moving, and drivers sometimes for some reason feel like they can pay less attention whether that's overtaking you or deciding that they can just cut the corner turning at a T junction because 'chances are' nobody is coming the other way.
The ability to determine that someone doesn't know where they're going and therefore are going to make a curious decision in about 10 seconds time is also just great, whether riding or driving.
I've managed to adopt a pretty Zen approach when driving around the city, but I find it harder on a bike. I literally have more skin in the game and, thanks to the unique way BC insurance operates, unless there's an insurance broker stood on the junction, with a notebook, video camera, and 6 of their mates, I'd be liable to pay for any car repairs if I got hit 🙄
For what it's worth, I've taken mirrors of tanked up blue collar cosplayers in lifted F-150s before, so the female thing moot....though I do feel worse about it. Trucks can get in the sea.
This is a pretty critical one too. On a commute, it's the same people at the same times in the same places. There's an art to being visible but never memorable. Nothing distinctive about you or the bike. Or something that you can get rid of / change easily like a hivis gilet.
Yeah, it's very similar to being a stealth assassin or an undercover security operative. International man of mystery stuff.
Personally, I find it easier to just not start altercations with potentially dangerous nut-jobs in cars. Hint: people who drive like lunatics, often are, or think they are, above the law / hard.
If you want to rationalise things, just tell yourself that karma will come for them in due course. I was once overtaken by some gesticulating local Glossop classic car restoration guy on local roads - he had a sticker telling me exactly who he was. About two weeks later I walked past his parked car and someone else had clearly taken his wing mirror off for me.
hanks to the unique way BC insurance operates, unless there's an insurance broker stood on the junction, with a notebook, video camera, and 6 of their mates, I'd be liable to pay for any car repairs if I got hit
Even by Canadian standards that's mental!! We were paying $2k a year to insure one car, and after that the insurance company will still try to chase a cyclist for damages?!!
I was trying to explain to the OH the ability you pick up to read the other road users: "you're just about to step off the kerb without looking; you actually need that exit over there, you just don't know it yet; you see me but for some reason want to prove a point" and so on
I used, a very long time ago, to be a London motorcycle courier/despatch rider. I got very, very good at reading what drivers were doing because I was riding a lot and the same patterns, cues, etc repeat themselves over and over again. You get very good at spotting people who are distracted, reckless, or just stand out for some reason you can't consciously compute, and give them a wide berth.
This one always springs to mind when not knowing what lunatics are around you on the road. This was kicked off just because the driver in front was too slow turning out from a junction.
"Thomas Fullerton was stopped at a junction in Jordanhill, Glasgow, and preparing to turn right when he became aware of Daniel in the car behind him.
The gangster, who was driving his partner's Volkswagen Golf, flashed his headlight s and blasted his horn.
Thomas slowed down to see what the fuss was about only for Daniel to draw parallel and start making gestures."
"The accused repeatedly hit Mr Fullerton's vehicle with the pole, causing a crack to the windscreen and damage to the bodywork around the driver's door. He repeatedly attempted to enter the car by the driver's door but was unsuccessful."
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-crime-boss-jamie-daniel-1060608
Funnily enough the other than needing to take action for genuine mistakes by drivers the only people who have deliberately tried to knock me off my bike were pedestrians while commuting home late at night.
As above though - something in their body language warned me beforehand and I had shoulder checked so knew I could safely swerve onto the wrong side of the road to avoid them. Three separate times.
While I was never hurt I know one incident in the same area where a woman got a broken arm after being knocked off her bike by a random male. Taken seriously by the police. Press appeals, etc, her jacket sent to try for contact DNA etc nobody caught though.
Also in the same area 80s musician got a lump of concrete dropped on his head after the bike path was blocked with branches.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-61307622
These incidents happened over years though I don't consider it a dangerous area to ride in.
