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Thanks tj, but a bit more googling suggests that only half the story- the hirers I looked at referred to the law rather than a company decision, but it seems that in national forests, hence most trail centres, they have to comply with the Road Traffic Act on roads and trails- therefore it's illegal for an under 14 year old to ride an e-bike at most trail centres. Edge case or not, it is interesting.
If they are as lacking in the basic understanding of ebikes as this …
…motor is propelling the bike and rider, and forcing his reluctant legs to go up and down on the pedals.
was wrt:
I cycled to work today on an ebike and the computer says I burnt roughly 450 kcal on the way in, 500 on the way back (hills). That’s over the course of 7 miles each way. It also says I put in about 25% of the effort and the motor put in 75% which given I was in turbo seems about right. It also says I averaged about 220W human output
...would equate to a 900w ride. I think my theory's about as likely. I also quite like the idea of a bike that makes me pedal. But to be fair, if I'm not particularly interested in my opinions on this issue I can't really expect anyone else to be. Must I put smileys in everything?
like the OP do have to fight the urge to say unpleasant things about them and their owners
really ? why do people have this urge ? 🙁
I don’t use my car to go to work I take the Segway normally as it’s pretty local to me
Bloody Segway riders, tearing up the pavement, pushing past pedestrians. Segways are just for lazy idiots, unless they're disabled and then I might give them a pass.
really ? why do people have this urge ? 🙁
It's mainly due to having very small boabies. And all the immigrants, taking back control etc. But mainly the boabies.
I genuinely, genuinely do not understand the indiscriminate hate towards e-bikes; towards people riding them inconsiderately, yup, I can see that - but that's the rider, not the bike.
Look at it this way; I've ridden bikes for years and generally maintain a certain level of fitness. My other half hasn't, and struggles to maintain fitness. When we go out together on rides, she's knackered after 10k, struggles up climbs, doesn't enjoy the descents as she's out of energy from the climb, and ends up feeling like she's holding me back and hates it. It's a vicious circle that ends up with her not wanting to ride.
So we got a Turbo Levo. Now she hassles me about when we're riding next. She adjusts the level of assistance so that when we're putting in the same relative effort, we go the same speed (as borne out by comparing heart rates over the ride duration - average within 5bpm of each other). She loves cycling again, and in turn its making her want to ride more, which is getting her fitter. Nothing wrong with that as far as I can see. I just wish we'd got one years ago..
Good stuff mate.
That is how the sums stack up: that motor is propelling the bike and rider, and forcing his reluctant legs to go up and down on the pedals.
Yup Strava* Reckons I averaged 93w for a sedate flat just under 4 mile mixed terrain pootle on my fixed commuter bike this morning; I arrived non-sweaty or out of breath so it's not hard to extrapolate that his 220w is the combo of rider plus motor and He said it was ~25% effort so 55w... Long and the short of it we both put in about the same level of physical effort to get to work today, but I travelled half as far and probably spent 1/100th of the money on the bike. I expect our respective enjoyment was probably about equal... So really everyone's a winner.
(*admittedly not the most accurate power measurement tool but probably in the ballpark)
The law says that under 14’s shouldn’t be on E-bikes…hence my comments, which were quickly ridiculed….I realise some people have no qualms with breaking the law…
Fair enough, but (warning anecdotal "evidence") I've not yet actually seen any kids on E-bikes, I've seen a few middle-life, Fluro-Enduro warriors on them. I assume this is mainly because they cost a bloody fortune and who buys their perfectly healthy under 14 Year old, with a (potentially passing) interest in MTBs a £5K E-bike anyway?
To put it simply it's not "Hugely Problematic" it's closer to being a "non-issue", hence the (IMO deserved) minor ridicule...
However on my last visit to Llandegla it is pretty clear they need e-bike lanes! The first climb is ridiculous, countless e-bikers muscling by without so much of a ‘scuse me’
Is that the first climb that’s 427 meters wide?
Ebike is the only way to make Degla even remotely fun
bsims
Member
Do people at sailing clubs foam at the mouth about motor boats like this?
Far worse ime
I dislike people (more jealousy) who can eat crisps whilst climbing, because I cant do that. I have no other dislike except for those that dislike other bikes like ebikes for no reason at all and cant comprehend the difference between an ebike and a motorbike...
It seems because they run on electric rather than petrol or diesel it's got a free pass. I imagine 5 years ago if someone went round your local trails going uphill at 15mph on a petrol engine bike you'd all be up in arms. But not it's electric it's fine.
Ebikes are the silent killer of the countryside
However on my last visit to Llandegla it is pretty clear they need e-bike lanes! The first climb is ridiculous, countless e-bikers muscling by without so much of a ‘scuse me’
Is that the first climb that’s 427 meters wide?
Ebike is the only way to make Degla even remotely fun
I've had the same issue at Llandegla - in fact was berated once for riding 2 abreast with the missus up that climb by some angry ebike dude. No "excuse me please" just approaching really fast from behind, some shouting once really close and then barging past.
I've had a few annoying incidents with ebike guys and I don't think its cricket to shout riders out of your way on singletrack when you're on an ebike. So I'd be in favour of separate ebike climbs - maybe send them up a steep fireroad so they can get their 10 laps in. Its not a huge issue yet as there aren't loads of ebikes - but the numbers are growing!
Trail center is definitely the best place for them though. In the future there will be an inevitable increase in resistance to mtb access on natural trails as a result of ebikes
really ? why do people have this urge ?
Take your pick; envy, a dislike of change, and ingrained work ("earn your turns") ethic, recognition of the fact they're a bit worse for the environment (than a non-E-bike), general respect/admiration for the relative mechanical simplicity of "clockwork" bicycles...
Ascribe whatever character flaws or motivations you like to mine and others dislike of E-bikes. like I said in the post you selectively quoted, I prefer to bite my tongue and not be too mean, plus I do recognise they have genuine benefits...
I'd could counter with the question, why do E-bike fanbois/owners feel the desperate need to defend the things if they're so secure with their choices? But I won't, it just starts another circular argument...
Ultimately we can't all like the same things, but we still all need to rub along, so lets agree to differ on this one eh?
I don't own an ebike, but if I needed one for health reasons or injury, or it became the most viable option to commute on to get a car off the road... I'd go out tomorrow and buy one - go razzing about bagging up KOMS, ride the wheels off it with a huge grin on my face, and not give a flying one what anyone else thought of me on it...so just crack on ebikers. I see lots of ebikes about, had a first ride recently where 100% of other riders seen out were on ebikes (ahem...5 separate individuals...not a single analog rider on a beautiful day, which was weird) Some in the industry already predict that MTB will mainly become a powered sport in the future whether we like it or not...so best get used to it...
One thought...if most trail centres were designed before ebikes were invented, and designed for open flow on the descents and climbing at slower speeds like tight switchbacks....will the trails need to be adapted for even flow?
going uphill at 15mph on a petrol engine bike you’d all be up in arms
Only because they are on a petrol engined bike where they shouldnt be, doing 15mph isnt that quick for most hills, XC riders can do that quite easily
Reading this thread I have come to the conclusion that this isn’t actually about Ebikes. It’s about something new causing change - the Printing press, Spinning Jenny, steam power, high pressure steam power, computers, robots, AI etc...
What have I left out?
Reading this thread I have come to the conclusion that this isn’t actually about Ebikes. It’s about something new causing change – the Printing press, Spinning Jenny, steam power, high pressure steam power, computers, robots, AI etc…
What have I left out?
@ kelron
😀
It seems like ebikes are like supercars. The people in them think they are cool and other supercar owners think they are cool. But most people think they are idiots.
I’m sure they aren’t all idiots but first impression is that person is an idiot.
My first impression of you is not that you're an idiot, it's that you are a narrow minded binary thinking embittered cretin. I hope I am wrong.
Thanks nickfrog. That means a lot
a lot of those things have been disruptive and then required management / legislation though.
more ebikes will probably mean more management and legislation for off road cycling - hopefully just for the ebikes but the pessimist in me thinks all MTB will get hit
ABsolutely.
I was out for a run last night, when a small rotund man cycled past me, he was SITTING DOWN and only putting minimal force through the pedals, but was gliding along at a fair trot.
It's a ****in abmination. HE SHOULD BE RUNNING, LIKE ME!!!
What have I left out?
Gears, riser bars, suspension, 29" and 27.5" wheels etc.
The only thing I'm taking from this thread is that llandegla and Swinley sound shite.
a lot of those things have been disruptive and then required management / legislation though.
more ebikes will probably mean more management and legislation for off road cycling – hopefully just for the ebikes but the pessimist in me thinks all MTB will get hit
Not really anything to do with ebikes though.
MTB is just becoming more popular ... more people doing it and more people feeling left out of making money.
I think perhaps its more like Walkman / CD where they banned CD’s on planes ... (because it was new and they missed out on the Walkman)
Roll on 2019 and CD’s, mobile phones etc. Are all allowed though your airline may try and prevent you if they invested in in-seat credit card phones or pay-per-view
Wait till someone gets injured after being hit by an ebike on some trails and see what happens. At the moment we have brilliant rights as cyclists in this country and it could all go in a heartbeat with swooping legislation
no its not really like that. ebikes will encourage more riders that previously couldn't be bothered plus those who have moved onto ebikes now covering more miles more frequently and going places they wouldn't have before. More miles equals more impact and more conflict with other people using the countryside. That will result in more restrictions arriving much sooner than they otherwise might have.
replying to SteveXTC there
Wait till someone gets injured after being hit by an ebike on some trails and see what happens.
Will it be the same as when that woman got killed by that lad on a brakeless fixie and they banned all bikes from London ?
This thread is epic, I prefer to live my life in a live and let live way. If someone isn't bothering me I don't bother them. As an ebiker I've had some abuse from non ebikers, personally I'd never speak angrily and abuse people I don't know but I guess some folk like provoking others.
I also am a very polite ebiker and my preference for overtaking is on downhill sections, I'd rather wait on the uphill as I don't want to add to ebike haters ammunition thinking we can't ride. Passing on a downhill section is better as it screws with their views as to how a bike 10kg heavier can overtake them downhill when they were convinced their pedals that are 10grams lighter saved them some time 🙂
Wait till someone gets injured after being hit by an ebike on some trails and see what happens. At the moment we have brilliant rights as cyclists in this country and it could all go in a heartbeat with swooping legislation
Hang on i'll fix that for you
Wait till someone gets injured after being hit by a car on some roads and see what happens. At the moment we have brilliant rights as drivers in this country and it could all go in a heartbeat with swooping legislation
I guess big yim is STW's very own parody account, i'm liking his humour
I aspire to be an e-biker, but can't face coughing up so much cash for a decent one...
Maybe the folk that ride them are doing so for pure enjoyment rather than riding for fitness, maybe they keep fit on a 'normal bike' if they own one or doing another sport/gym? Does any really care?, as long as everyone is doing what they enjoy.
They are just bikes. All this talk of increased liability and issues is baffling, really:
I’m probably faster downhill on my regular bike
I’m almost certainly faster on the flat riding my regular bike, where it’s easy to be over 16mph
I’m definitely faster uphill on my ebike, but normally that means about 10-12mph.
Pretty much every person I know with an ebike rides their normal bike at least as much. To a non-mountain biker, we’re pretty much all ****ers whatever we’re riding - and we were long before ebikes came along...
If I’d realised what options they open up (more miles, faster climbing, exploring new lines that you couldn’t get up - only down - on a normal bike), then I’d have bought one sooner. Love mine, to complement, not replace.
To a non-mountain biker, we’re pretty much all **** whatever we’re riding – and we were long before ebikes came along…
Yep sums it all up nicely!! I’ve met more eejits on non ebikes than ebikes! The biggest tool was riding a Ti hardtail fully Lycra’ed up shouting rider right on a huge bridal way climb at a MTB marathon! Luckily he was stuck down by karma Sorry, cramp but what bikes what doesn’t bother me. As for Sail and Motor this is positively polite in comparison!!
What is interesting though talking to my alBS they are selling less bling 4-5k MTBs now as those people are buying Ebikes. So I wonder will the top end MTB market suffer.
Looks like they are starting them early 🙂
70 miles into th3 South Downs way northbound we found QE country park. And a pair of neon twerps riding full sus e bikes. Oh how I laughed as they shit up the hill past us shouting the words
‘We’re cheating we are!’ My view they’re riden by ****s was not dislodged. Sorry.
"Curses..! People are having fun in a manner that I don't approve of even though it doesn't affect me! I must decry this to all and sundry forthwith! Down with unapproved fun!"
However on my last visit to Llandegla it is pretty clear they need e-bike lanes! The first climb is ridiculous, countless e-bikers muscling by without so much of a ‘scuse me’
Learn to ride defensively. If someone tries to muscle past me on a climb, whether on a proper bike or an invalid bike, they get put into the bushes or, if the trail is narrow, held up a bit more as I back off.
Ebike is the only way to make Degla even remotely fun
Llandegla as a whole is pretty dull and no amount of on-bike assistance can improve that. Perhaps though, if the rotund folks who usually straddle e-Bikes used a traditional bike instead, they'd at least get a health benefit from riding the place.
It’s getting too obvious now the hangers on have arrived.
1/10.
Passing on a downhill section is better as it screws with their views as to how a bike 10kg heavier can overtake them downhill...
Utter cods.
Not sure if you're aware of it but there is a whole field of mountain biking called "Downhill" and the bikes they use are often much heavier. I'm sure many folks outside of downhill are aware that those who partake in downhill both ride heavier bikes and that they can ride downhill faster.
The concept of a heavier bike going downhill faster is not some kind of ju-ju. Indeed, once they get moving you could say they have a certain law on their side.
If someone tries to muscle past me on a climb, whether on a proper bike or an invalid bike, they get put into the bushes
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The thread that just keeps on giving 🙂