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Can kids not reach 25kph on none ebikes then.
I'm all for e-bikes, speaking as a non e-bike rider. A slightly different angle, my dad has a life long health condition that limits riding on a normal bike to 15/20km of flat pootling. A year ago he got an e-bike and has done 9000km since, granted it's not as exercise intensive as a regular bike, but it's distance he never would (or could more importantly) have done previously. It's also replaced a lot of short car journeys for him too, adding an additional benefit.
Even more than that it's meant I (age 24) can now ride with my Dad (56) and enjoy long/off road/hilly rides for the first time together, completely fantastic! A few weekends ago we did the Trans Cambrian Way over 3 days, he stayed in B&Bs to charge the battery overnight while I bivied, his speed on an e-bike matching nicely with mine on a regular bike. This is something that absolutely would not have been possible without an e-bike and I'm incredibly grateful that it's given us a chance to do something like this together.
I don't care what people ride as long as it's not causing a nuisance or damaging any trails.
It also says I put in about 25% of the effort and the motor put in 75% which given I was in turbo seems about right. It also says I averaged about 220W human output over both directions,
Something's wrong there. 220w on the flat gives you nearly 22mph. And thats only a quarter of your total output??
Campgareth, are you sure those figures are correct? 220 watts human effort, but you were only putting in 25% of the effort? Between you and the motor does it really average close to 900 watts for a 7 mile journey? (I ask out of not genuinely not knowing, not snarkyness)
I ride with a power meter, I tend to average between 200 and 250 watts for an hour and half ride, so 1000 watts as an average sounds like fun.
Looks like I may have inherited my dads heart condition, I'm 47. Depending on how things go over the next few months I may well be joining the ebike crowd. (I'm 47, 67kgs, raced road only stopping racing last year - so most definately not a fat knacker). My dad is 70 and still rides every day, but on an ebike.
To counter the “you don’t get a workout on an ebike” argument, I cycled to work today on an ebike and the computer says I burnt roughly 450 kcal on the way in, 500 on the way back (hills). That’s over the course of 7 miles each way. It also says I put in about 25% of the effort and the motor put in 75% which given I was in turbo seems about right. It also says I averaged about 220W human output over both directions, a bit more when fighting the hills than not which I think isn’t too shabby for a workout. Side note I love having a computer with speedo, watt meter etc to get all this data out and I’m considering a Bluetooth heart monitor to extend the stats.
Now I could turn the motor off, and then I’d burn 2000 calories doing the same route because I’m supplying all the power. Then again that would probably kill me. No I’ll just gradually reduce the power mode as I lose weight.
Your computer is wrong. A 7 mile commute wouldn't burn 2000 calories,not even on a fat bike with a flat tyre.
My 25 mile commute burns about 1700 on the road bike, 1900 on the mtb or about 2100 on the fat bike (based on strava average power estimations which are ballpark accurate).
7 miles on an mtb is probably about 350 calories on a normal bike! Assuming the proportions are accurate I'd start with dividing that by 4.
I'm not personally sure the numbers are correct because I have no way to verify them. It's not as if I can replace bosch's torque sensing cranks with my own and have the whole system still work. Knowing what the bike is like when the motor's off (bosch mid drive so draggy, combined with rohloff hub gear, belt drive, full suspension and dual batteries for 30kg total weight) and how it comes alive when the motor's cranked up, it may well be putting in hundreds of Watts. If it is though the batteries aren't showing it, I consume about 250Wh doing both legs of the commute. Total ride time is about 1:15 so the average out of the motor must be about 200W, but how is that 75% of the effort if I'm also averaging 220W?
Let's label this as further investigation required.
220W on a road bike on a rolling/flat should see you over 20mph, so your 7 miles takes 20 mins or so- and I would expect less than 500cal for around 75kg rider. Bike weight, position, tyres will of course add to that. I have no idea but am intrigued how these numbers would compare to ebike. How accurate is the power reading I wonder?
Analogue or E-bike, makes no odds to me. If some impatient idiot decides to sit on my back wheel on a tight trail then I just back off a little and hold them up even more. I'll give room when the trail conditions allow, not before.
No one should feel pressurised to interrupt their ride for someone else.
@endoverend it isn't a road bike, full suspension mountain bike with losses in the belt and hub gears. It also isn't the flat, rather a muddy/cobbled canal tow path with plenty of locks. It's more like 150kg between 115kg me and the 30kg bike plus a laptop and locks. Lightly nobbled rock razor tyres in 2.35". Position fairly upright. Average speed about 12mph. I've held 28mph on it before but that's a real strain.
Now I'm curious if anyone has a bosch road bike with Kiox or nyon displays (both do this kind of tracking). They'd get some interesting numbers for comparison.
Quite intrigued by the new direction this thread is going on, with regard to the analysis of the @campgareth data.
Meanwhile, on the OP’s opinion on ebikes, “I’m sure they serve their purpose for people with disabilities and old age going against them.”
Care to expand on this?
“Will we all be forced out of the convinience of trail centres and pushed to the the secret squirrel trails and out into the middle of no where so the ebikes can’t find us.”
How could you be ‘forced’?
Same as wheelchairs for people who can't walk.
If you can pedal a bike I don't see why you need a motor attached to it. And if you want a motorbike buy a Motocross bike and get some balls.
Campgareth I think you need a new bike computer
If you can pedal a bike I don’t see why you need a motor attached to it.
Because it’s fun. Duh.
I’m beginning to wonder why I bother being courteous to clockwork riders when there’s judgemental bellends like you indiscriminately slagging off Ebikes and tarring us all with the same brush.
Yim
Did the nasty ebikers at Coed y bum your dog or something.
Did you tell them any of this shit you're typing on here face to face while you had the chance?
what’s so wrong about being concerned about the safety of 7-10 year olds pilling into trees at 25kph? FFS….whatevs.
Which 7-10 year olds were riding ebikes?
And anyway, are there no downhills at this place? I assume 25kph is easily achievable by kids going downhill.
Or do you not let them ride downhill in case they pile into trees ?
Whatevs.
I would have told them but they were speeding past me at about 20mph eating crisps
Two thoughts from me.
A. Riding bikes is great. Any bike. Any one.
B. Rule No.1 applies to everyone.
Kids on e-bikes is hugely problematic
Jesus, the narrow minded are out in full force today.
FIFM
I would imagine when they’re riding their ebikes to my sailing club that they’re thinking “ look at that old man on his clockwork dandy-horse”
Like they really care what you think 🤯🙄
Clearly you preferred life in black and white, just after the war when rationing was still prevalent and hovis was “jus, up, t’ill”
🤷♂️
I would have told them but they were speeding past me
Yes sure you would...
So all 15-20 of them pasted you at the same time and you didn't get chance to tell them?
Like I said up there somewhere.
No one has ever spoken to me differently when i've been on my ebike to how they speak to me when i'm on my none ebike.
I have a feeling you may live in the same area as me.
Feel free to give me your thoughts if you see me out on the trails.
I am not fat… I am not lazy… But my knee bloody kills me every day (and I ride every day)
That's fine, you will get a disabled pass from the anti ebike brigade. Maybe stick on a blue badge so they can see that you are riding it for disability reasons which will stop them getting all upset about it as they seem overly angry about it already so anything to calm them down.
Will do singlespeedstu I'll wear a flower in my helmet so you'll know it's me
I'm all for blue badges for ebikers.
I'll know it's you
You'll be the one that doesn't say a word until you get behind a keyboard.🙄
Kids on e-bikes is hugely problematic, can’t see the necessity of it (unless they’re disabled).
Was going to treat the kids to a big day out at C-y-B on hired e-bikes, found out that they're illegal in the hands of under 14s.
“If you can pedal a bike I don’t see why you need a motor attached to it.”
I hope you don’t drive a car or ride a motorbike then!
I commute on my eMTB. It’s also replaced my full-sus. As I’ve said in every thread like this, when riding with my mates (on normal bikes) I’ll often leave the assistance off.
If you think it’s more satisfying pedalling a normal bike up the climbs, try doing that with one that’s 20lbs heavier with no electric help. Or I could just call you riders on lightweight 30lb bikes lazy!
Do people at sailing clubs foam at the mouth about motor boats like this?
Its all getting a bit self entitled/ holier than though/ don't do as I do, do as I tell you etc... ad nauseam...
Do people at sailing clubs foam at the mouth about motor boats like this?
If they are anything like the standard STW anti-ebikes, then they won’t do it while they actually [b]at[/b] the sailing club no.
They will wait till they get home and do it all online.
“I saw 30 fat lazy ebikers today and never said a word but now I’m billy big balls calling everyone out on my iPad”
😂😂
I can't wait to get one. Been trying my hardest to resist with motor & battery tech improving all the time, plus we seem to be getting there with them replicating decent bikes geometry.
Will be able to smash out the laps in my local. Just as tired, but a lot more downs.
Bring it on 🙂
“I saw 30 fat lazy ebikers today and never said a word but now I’m billy big balls calling everyone out on my iPad”
It's called not being rude, we all have opinions about everything and everyone. Do you go up to strangers and voice univited negative opinions ? No you don't, that's what forums are for.
It’s called not being rude,
Yep. Sure. That’s what it is 👍
It seems like ebikes are like supercars. The people in them think they are cool and other supercar owners think they are cool. But most people think they are idiots.
I'm sure they aren't all idiots but first impression is that person is an idiot.
Choefgrooveguru. I don't use my car to go to work I take the Segway normally as it's pretty local to me
<div class="bbcode-quote">
o people at sailing clubs foam at the mouth about motor boats like this?
</div>
If they are anything like the standard STW anti-ebikes, then they won’t do it while they actually <strong class="bbcode-strong">at the sailing club no.They will wait till they get home and do it all online.
Well, we have a "balcony one-design" like many sailing clubs around the country. Most dinghy sailors tend to be monosyllabic, so yes there is definitely a cross-over between them and cyclists. "Which way did you go up the beat?" is a perennial question, always answered with "left" or "right" and pretty much that sums up any race of the year, of any year.
Regarding online, I doubt many post anything. Y&Y forum is full of "what sails for?" and "I have an old Wayfarer, can I get my family of three kids in it and my dog and sail around the the IoW?.. must add I haven't sailed much in the last 20yrs because of family/kids/work but I'm sure the boats fine... what buoyancy aid for a 50kg Labrador??" type of questions.. So really same type of people, just a slightly different playground.
The only "motor boats" we tend to complain about are the 60ftrs that have the "get out of my way, I'm clearly in a bigger boat than you and if you don't move I'll mow you down" or "those kids playing in the water, they'll get out of the way Pamela" or the jetski'ers that have an innate ability to be human beings and hold some due-care-and-attention span longer than it takes to unhook their soap-dish from their L200 (adorned with "the wetter the better" stickers) and propel a machine at full chat out of the Sparkes Marina into the harbour at 25knts in a 6knt limited channel.. whilst kids are playing in the shallows not 4mtrs away... Theres a reason I criticise mo-to-boats.. most of them are morons.
eBikes and kids using them to the sailing club though is a curious one, on the one hand you'd think being fit they'd be fine on a clockwork bike, on the other we don't yet have any charging points for them so they must get their parents to charge them up for them.. being frail and only used to being indoors playing x-boxes or texting each other with pics of their tits.
Contrary to any belief, kids in sailing clubs tend to be jolly, happy and down right pleasant human beings.. much like any other sport with a club attached to it across this country. eBikes are simply a form of transport to them that gets them from their homes/caravans/tents to the club for a jolly old wheeze out on the briny "it's a little bit choppy" sea.
Leave em' alone, they're not interfering with you and your dandy horse.
Just spent a week in Holland, on a fantastic cycle network which featured shopping bikes, utility bikes, roadies, ebikes, pedalecs, mopeds, electric mopeds, pedestrians, pretty much everyone without a helmet, and they all got on spiffingly.
Someone in this country spies someone at their local trail centre on something different, and it's toys oot the pram.
Utter bawbags.
It seems like ebikes are like supercars. The people in them think they are cool and other supercar owners think they are cool. But most people think they are idiots.
I’m sure they aren’t all idiots but first impression is that person is an idiot.
BigYim you must be joking right, Id say the MTB equivelant of a supercar is 10k on a Yeti or other niche brand not a few grand on an e bike. I'm not sure why you dislike people on ebikes, is it cos they are having more fun then you? jealous of them eating crisps whilst climbing? I would be, I love crisps, just not enough to post about it.
Holy Hyperbole Batman!
Honestly.
Cyclists complaining about e-bikes are what give cyclists a bad name.
It is? They do?
Kids on e-bikes is hugely problematic
They are? To who?
This is a fascinating thread*, lots of polarised attitudes laid bare, plenty of breaching rule 1...
Personally I'm not into the E-bikes and like the OP do have to fight the urge to say unpleasant things about them and their owners. But I manage to bite my tongue because they're really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, people can do what they like with their money and spare time and getting all animated about it is counterproductive when there are far bigger issues in the world...
As for 'campgareth' I think it's quite evident that he's averaging ~55 person watts for his journey and the motor's doing the remainder, but at least He's not in a car...
(*it's really not)
..."Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (Amendment) Regulations 2015"reference"</sup> Riders must be at least 14 years of age, but no driving licence is required."
The law says that under 14's shouldn't be on E-bikes...hence my comments, which were quickly ridiculed....I realise some people have no qualms with breaking the law...just watch out for the criminal intelligence investigation bureau lurking above.
I can totally get why a lot of people slag this forum and it’s users off. Seriously, it’s just a bike. If there isn’t room to get passed you on a climb then they don’t get passed surely?
If you don’t like ebikes then don’t buy one. It literally is irrelevant to your lives surely?
‘campgareth’ I think it’s quite evident that he’s averaging ~55 person watts for his journey
That is how the sums stack up: that motor is propelling the bike and rider, and forcing his reluctant legs to go up and down on the pedals.
(I probably have opinions on ebikes, which if I could only summon up the motivation I would share...)
The law says that under 14’s shouldn’t be on E-bikes…[s]hence my comments..[/s] [i]which I recently discovered when someone else posted it, but have decided I can use to justify my comments, even though nobody really mentioned anything other than “teenagers” riding ebikes anyway[/i]
FTFY 👍
(I probably have opinions on ebikes, which if I could only summon up the motivation I would share…)
If they are as lacking in the basic understanding of ebikes as this ...
...motor is propelling the bike and rider, and forcing his reluctant legs to go up and down on the pedals.
Then maybe you shouldn’t bother 👍
…”Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (Amendment) Regulations 2015″reference”</sup> Riders must be at least 14 years of age, but no driving licence is required.”
The law says that under 14’s shouldn’t be on E-bikes…hence my comments, which were quickly ridiculed….I realise some people have no qualms with breaking the law…just watch out for the criminal intelligence investigation bureau lurking above.
On the road or on bridleways. Trail centres are not public roads so you can ride an e bike at any age with the landowners permission. Same as you can ride a derestricted one on private land with the landowners permission
@oikeith
I’m not sure why you dislike people on Yeti’s , is it cos they are having more fun and money than you? jealous of them spending 10k on a bike ?
On the road or on bridleways.
Is this really correct?
As I posted on the previous page, I was interested in hiring a couple for my kids for use at a trail centre, but shop said they had to be at least 14- a quick check of locations hiring e-bikes show they all refer to the law saying users must be at least 14- no mention of exception on private land etc etc
That is the hirers rules not the law. Its like kids can ride motorbikes on private land with the landowners permission.
I largely have absolutely no problem with e-bikes. However on my last visit to Llandegla it is pretty clear they need e-bike lanes! The first climb is ridiculous, countless e-bikers muscling by without so much of a 'scuse me' just because they are battery powered and subsequently quicker uphill doesn't mean they own the bleeding fire road.