Can ebikers not moderate their awesome powerz? Can they not handle corners? I was at Glentress last night and on the Cardie Hill climb noticed a bunch of new shortcuts. Instead of following the lovely switchbacks, a bunch of people have decided to straight line it. I'm firmly putting the blame at ebikers because of the muddy nature of the shortcuts, without assistance I reckon it'd be more effort to ride than the longer, traditional way. It looks a right mess and it's probably not going to help with water run off. I know it's a pathetic rant but I'm just kinda fed up with people's selfishness. I help the GT trail fairies, I am a fairy and we have enough to do as it is without blocking Strava lines etc. we'd rather be doing fun stuff.
I had an *ahem* amusing encounter with one the other day.
I was blowing out my arse on a steep uphill fire road and an ebiker breezed past me. Mildly annoying, but not the end of the world
As he passed he said (and I quote) "that looks hard on an exercise bike."
**** off! I assume he was trying to be amusing, but still 🤦♂️
There'll be someone along any second to claim that eebs are nothing to do with the problem and...
Oh 🙄
Its been like that at QECP for a good few years now, any slightly hard line, anything with tree roots, avoided and new, ****ing boring lines created. When we started out, we made it our business to learn new, difficult stuff, go back and try things a few times, learn how to cruise across wet roots… it was all part of mtbing. Don’t need to now, why should you, when it’ll never be an issue on the rides? I ebike up there mostly now, but like an old fuddy, I stick to the old lines , even where they are pretty much erased. All you can do is…
It’s a valid rant, and I believe it 100%.
but i have to agree with sharkattack on this, it’s humans who are the problem.
Got in a row with a eeb rider the other day. Breezed past me on a horrible winch climb without a word ,not even a raised finger
So asked why he was riding his mum's bike next time I saw him. Along with "your bikes great at going uphill in a straight line but can you actually ride? "
Got a puncture as I disappeared off into the distance doing a line I used to top10 Strava on.
He went off on one saying my bike was worth 50p and I was poor .
Fair enough, but at least I don't ignore everyone else and ride my mum's bike.
It's people some(most) of them are dicks.
I was at a very wet kirroughtree on Thurs wanted to do a full lap but limited time so belted out on my eb. Was surprised at the number of corners straight lined. I like following the trail there's corners with techy wee rocks and step ups. As above, it's how you get better but I suspect most folk don't want to be better, they want to get faster.
Half the selling points of e bikes is their ability to allow the rider to do super mega hard tech climbs that you couldn’t possibly do on a normal bike. My advice would be don’t block them off but give them the tech they crave so dig some deep ruts across them, these can also be used for drainage. The people using the short cuts will definitely appreciate this
"I'm firmly putting the blame at ebikers because of the muddy nature of the shortcuts, without assistance I reckon it'd be more effort to ride than the longer, traditional way."
It's people on ebikes that's the problem.
but i have to agree with sharkattack on this, it’s humans who are the problem.
isn’t that why the first words of the thread contain “ebiker” ? Pretty sure an ebiker is a person.
There's a large proportion of bellends doing all kinds of activities all over the planet.
There's a large proportion of this forum that absolutely radiate smug self righteousness.
It's not surprising that they clash when they meet in the real world.
It’s a valid rant, and I believe it 100%.
but i have to agree with sharkattack on this, it’s humans who are the problem.
Ebikes don't kill people. People kill people.
Target the criminals, not my right to own an ebike!
To paraphrase Eddie Izzard, "ebikes don't ruin trails. But they help.
I mean, you could pretend you had an ebike and make a 'Mmmmmmzzzzzzzz' sound as you tried to pedal up an unrideable line but it probably wouldn't have the same effect as pedaling up with a 1000W of power 'helping'."
There's a large proportion of this forum that absolutely radiate smug self righteousness.
You have a point.
my right to own an ebike!
As proven exactly one minute after your post 😂
E-bikes do seem to allow some extraordinary bell ends access to the trails. Educate, educate and educate?!?
That been said, I spend a lot of time picking up rubbish, repairing damage and stupid stuff that’s been made by normal mountain bikers. Things that are dangerous and really piss all the other users off. I also pick up about 30-40 large refuse sacks of rubbish each year, countless dog waste and even more enjoyable recently, human waste 🤮
There are so many wonderful people in this world, and I speak to some every ride, but there are a lot of complete toilets too! Would write more but I’m off out on the eeb, no corners cut 🤣
Yeah, I like that, I rode my exercise bike today and really enjoyed it 🙂
I noticed those shortcuts all over the climbs at GT for the last few years and also presumed e-bikers or people night riding and using trails the opposite way round.
Perhaps Ebikers should pay a higher fee to use trail centres to account for the damage that they cause?
But it's observer bias. There have been shortcuts and Strava lines at GT, and everywhere else, since the day they opened and before ebikes and Strava. People have done it since day 1 and will continue to do it.
I'm sure that proper suspension, v-brakes, hydraulic brakes, full suspension, 650b wheels, 29ers, people who ride in the dark and people fitter/less fit than me have all been blamed.
I'm sure that proper suspension, v-brakes, hydraulic brakes, full suspension, 650b wheels, 29ers, people who ride in the dark and people fitter/less fit than me have all been blamed.
Nope, since none of those things are even close to being comparable to an extra 750W in order to help out on an otherwise unrideable uphill shortcut.
As proven exactly one minute after your post 😂
I don't think self-righteous means what you think it means. Try again. Or perhaps you simply didn't understand what I was saying. Don't worry, it happens.
Just to be clear, lot's of users were making the point that it's not the ebikes that are the problem it's the riders. Which is true.
Cars are also not the problem, it's the drivers.
Guns are not the problem, it's the gun owners.
Most things will just sit there, not being a problem, until a human picks it up and does something stupid with it.
E-bikes are dickhead facilitators. If they didn't have an e-bike they wouldn't be there causing these perceived problems. Not all e-bikers are dickheads, but plenty are. Best to just avoid the places they congregate. Bit like vapes in that respect.
But it's observer bias. There have been shortcuts and Strava lines at GT, and everywhere else, since the day they opened and before ebikes and Strava. People have done it since day 1 and will continue to do it.
I'm sure that proper suspension, v-brakes, hydraulic brakes, full suspension, 650b wheels, 29ers, people who ride in the dark and people fitter/less fit than me have all been blamed.
This is the best answer. People will do it regardless of what they're riding.
However, eBikes probably have brought a lot of new people to mountain biking that may not know the etiquette for this sort of thing, or indeed have the skills for the trails they find themselves riding.
I ride mine like I did my non electric bike, its just easier to get back to the top... but then I wasn't a dick on my old bike so no reason to be on the eeb.
This is the best answer. People will do it regardless of what they're riding.
Again, nope.
The recent arms race in motor power means that more and more uphill shortcuts are becoming feasible.
No previous improvements in mountain biking have introduced the opportunity for uphill shortcuts the way motors have, If a shortcut wasn't worth it on a 26er it still isn't going to be worth it on a 29er. Unless that 29er happens to have a motor.
I was initially quite positive about ebikes in general. It seemed like a good way of helping more people into mountain biking and/or a good way keep people mountain biking as they age.
Then the power one-upmanship started and I thought, 'This isn't really about helping people participate anymore, is it?'
Then Avinox came along and I thought, 'OK, now you're just taking the piss.'
It's a shame because there was a real opportunity for motors to be a huge equalizer for everyone who wants to ride mountain bikes. Now it's just turned mountain biking into a land based version of jet-skiing. A somewhat anti-social activity for rich people.
I don't think self-righteous means what you think it means. Try again. Or perhaps you simply didn't understand what I was saying. Don't worry, it happens.
You do appreciate your entire online persona on this forum is built on
smug
And
self righteousness
don't you? I don't know if it's natural or conscious or even just an affection and I'm sure there is a chance you might be slightly more likeable in the flesh, but it just tickled me that you were the next poster after onehundredthidiot made that comment. 🤭
This is the best answer. People will do it regardless of what they're riding.
Again, nope.
The recent arms race in motor power means that more and more uphill shortcuts are becoming feasible.
No previous improvements in mountain biking have introduced the opportunity for uphill shortcuts the way motors have, If a shortcut wasn't worth it on a 26er it still isn't going to be worth it on a 29er. Unless that 29er happens to have a motor.
I was initially quite positive about ebikes in general. It seemed like a good way of helping more people into mountain biking and/or a good way keep people mountain biking as they age.
Then the power one-upmanship started and I thought, 'This isn't really about helping people participate anymore, is it?'
Then Avinox came along and I thought, 'OK, now you're just taking the piss.'
It's a shame because there was a real opportunity for motors to be a huge equalizer for everyone who wants to ride mountain bikes. Now it's just turned mountain biking into a land based version of jet-skiing. A somewhat anti-social activity for rich people.
We're not all like that though. I'm certainly not rich or anti-social, nor do I rip up trails or care at all about chasing silly amounts of power. I just like being able to ride more in the limited time I have available to do it.
You do appreciate your entire online persona on this forum is built on
Edit: deleted my original response.
Sorry, @convert. I'm not annoyed at you or anyone else on here. I think the recent Avinox motors just pissed me off more than I realised and I see now I'm taking it out on you guys and that's not fair.
Love you guys but I don't like the way ebikes are going at the moment.
E-bikes do seem to allow some extraordinary bell ends access to the trails.
I'm 70/30 on this. Recently I've seen bellendry on full-fat and diet bikes. I wonder if it's a sign of the times? More and more people seem to give less of a **** about their impact or behaviour these days. Are we just seeing that play out in nature now as stuff is more accessible? Be interesting to see if other outdoor sports communities see the equivalent bellendry in their parts of the forest?
I've been unfortunate enough to ride on paths and tracks that have been churned up by trail/mx bikes - you know, the ones with petrol motors. It was inevitable that ebikes would eventually create the same mess as the power/duration improved.
Be interesting to see if other outdoor sports communities see the equivalent bellendry in their parts of the forest?
From my experience as a fell runner as well as a mountain biker, no. Ebikers are a specific problem, because of this .
E-bikes are dickhead facilitators. If they didn't have an e-bike they wouldn't be there causing these perceived problems. Not all e-bikers are dickheads, but plenty are.
My main concern is that it enables them to cause all kinds of problems for people on foot, with dogs, with horses, etc which simply wouldn't be possible if they only had the power and speed of a human. At the moment it's 'just' getting the rest of us a bad name, I can see it getting us all banned from places because to the public it's all just 'cyclists'and that's what worries me.
I think that's quite a good name for a non-e bike, and quite self-deprecating of the rider
Hmm, maybe I was being overly harsh. It just annoyed me that it was said as he wafted past me on full assist 😆
Don't have an e-bike but people have been cutting corners at the trail centres I regularly go to long before e-bikes were a thing.
"it's not every ebiker, but it's always ebikers"
Said someone, somewhere.
Cut corners make it difficult telling my 7 year old not to follow them and to take the proper trail when some other dad aged guy blasts up them.
I’ve been blocking Strava lines for years before e-bikes turned up! Seems people would rather ride in a straight line.Also I’ve never witnessed anti social behaviour by an e-biker - maybe we’re just nicer round here 🤣
this is the usual story of people that enjoy the outdoors disliking others that are enjoying themselves.
i own both, and enjoy the emtb for getting up tech climbs that i wouldn't have been able to get up without dabbing, it's the only reason i bought one really-opened up another element of riding for me.
I'm interested (not an ebiker, though I've rented a few times) - do those who don't celebrate reserve their max dislike for specific bikes/motors or is it a blanket "all ebikes" ? ... and what could a rider on an amflow bike (I assume at least joint top of any hate-list) do to convince you that they're not the antichrist ?
I'm interested (not an ebiker, though I've rented a few times) - do those who don't celebrate reserve their max dislike for specific bikes/motors or is it a blanket "all ebikes" ? ... and what could a
rider on an amflow bike (I assume at least joint top of any hate-list) do to convince you that they're not the antichrist ?
I think the problem is that they look like us, and we all get tarred with the same brush, the public can't tell who is on ebike and who is on a proper bike, a motorbike is really obvious. Even within ebikes there's so many different sorts.
They have their place, cargo bikes and utility bikes being the obvious examples, maybe as car-replacements for short journeys, an elderly friend has one so he can keep up with his friends, I have borrowed one whilst suffering from long covid as it was all I could ride, but it's not mountain biking and the sheer speed they are able to do around other people on the hills and the nuisance they cause leads to us all getting labelled as the problem.
I really hope it's just a passing fad, but it doesn't seem to be. We can't ban them completely as some people genuinely need one if they are unable to ride a proper bike, but to answer your question much stricter enforcement of what is a legal ebike and what is an electric motorcycle plus something which clearly identifies them to everyone else as 'not a mountain bike' so that the rest of us aren't lumped together with them
I rarely need to ride in city, but do those of you do find them same issues, being lumped in with the Deliveroo riders or whatever? There seems to be constant criticism of them riding around at night in black with no lights, totally ignoring traffic rules, riding on pavements etc. I know it's not unique to them but they are much faster and able to do more damage on a pavement than someone on a proper bike, but to the public we all look the same and we all get blamed for it
Minor victory during my last ride on my exercise bike of the gravel persuasion: two ebikers came past me on a fairly straightforward yet steep climb. One yelled something at me; the other made no acknowledgement. They continued to pull away as the climb continued, eventually disappearing from my line of view. I completed the climb and began the descent. YES... I was catching them. The trail flattened out and became a gentle tarmac climb. My gap to them rapidly decreasing. One last push and I flew past them with a cheery wave. Oh, how this made me happy 🙂
I think most bikes are great: I own and enjoy riding my Bosch SL emtb. But "beating" the buggers is a sweet delight!
I think most actual mountain bikers with ebikes will be on legal EPACs, so pedal assisted with a top speed 15.5mph and a maximum continuous power of 250W.
Maybe we need Trail Police to decide who actually should be using them? If someone is on one and they look too young/fit/healthy then it gets confiscated and the rider is either issued with a fine or a rigid 90s Trek and are told to earn their turns. I'm sure many on here would relish that job.
do to convince you that they're not the antichrist ?
Just a wild stab in the dark, given the topic op was about line choice and not messing up the trails......maybe stick to the existing lines and don't straight line stuff just because you can? And slightly off topic but similar, and not an issue where I live now but i know there are parts of the country where riding through gloopy mud that is not rideable on an 'exercise bike' by many is possible by most if they have a battery between their legs, leading to excessive trail damage. So I guess that too.
This sort of stuff was always an issue, but amplified by more having a tool that makes it easier. I'm not really a subscriber to the "guns don't kill people, people do" analogy in any walk of life - just too simplistic. The One Ring phenomena (I forget the actual name in psychology, but it's a play on Tolkien's ring) where even good people can be corrupted or altered by ownership/opportunity/access. i.e. the gun (ebike) changes the person.
and a maximum continuous power of 250W.
This is part of the issue - it's been written about heaps so easy enough to find but essentially the tests to determine what continuous output capability looks like have not kept up with the motor technology. So a motor that passes the 250 watt test has a real world continuous output that is much higher.
Maybe we need Trail Police to decide who actually should be using them? If someone is on one and they look too young/fit/healthy then it gets confiscated and the rider is either issued with a fine or a rigid 90s Trek and are told to earn their turns. I'm sure many on here would relish that job.
Er, no.
Just a wild stab in the dark, given the topic op was about line choice and not messing up the trails......maybe stick to the existing lines and don't straight line stuff just because you can? And slightly off topic but similar, and not an issue where I live now but i know there are parts of the country where riding through gloopy mud that is not rideable on an 'exercise bike' by many is possible by most if they have a battery between their legs, leading to excessive trail damage. So I guess that too.
That pretty much covers it for me. There's a very good reason that the Land Reform (Scotland) Act doesn't apply to motorbikes and SUVs and that's mostly down to the damage they cause and their relative speed compared to other trail users. If emtbs get heavier/more powerful then they risk crossing a boundary that wasn't previously a problem and that could put access for the rest of us at risk.
I've previously supported the idea that similar access legislation should be brought in for the other UK nations but I think that time might have now already passed due to the availability of ebikes.
do to convince you that they're not the antichrist ?
Just a wild stab in the dark, given the topic op was about line choice and not messing up the trails......maybe stick to the existing lines and don't straight line stuff just because you can? And slightly off topic but similar, and not an issue where I live now but i know there are parts of the country where riding through gloopy mud that is not rideable on an 'exercise bike' by many is possible by most if they have a battery between their legs, leading to excessive trail damage. So I guess that too.
This sort of stuff was always an issue, but amplified by more having a tool that makes it easier. I'm not really a subscriber to the "guns don't kill people, people do" analogy in any walk of life - just too simplistic. The One Ring phenomena (I forget the actual name in psychology, but it's a play on Tolkien's ring) where even good people can be corrupted or altered by ownership/opportunity/access. i.e. the gun (ebike) changes the person.
I think that's an education thing, which would go back to my earlier point of how someone rides their ebike likely depends on their history of mountain biking. People who know not to take shortcuts or Strava lines from their time spent riding normal bikes are probably less likely to if they get an ebike. Whereas people who were never into mountain biking and get an ebike as an easy entry into the sport are probably less likely to know the dos and don'ts.
For example, a non-electric Strava "friend" commented on one of his rides asking why do ebikers ride through all the puddles, so I replied that everyone should be riding through them as it lessens the erosion and stops them getting wider. I don't think he meant the thick gloop as the trails he was on don't get much, if any of that. That being said he's been into it for years and used to race Enduro so should know this.
If emtbs get heavier/more powerful then they risk crossing a boundary that wasn't previously a problem and that could put access for the rest of us at risk.
That may be relevant for going uphill, but my ebike is a lot lighter than my old Demo 8 downhill bike, and has much less aggressive tyres. From my own experience my ebike is no faster downhill than any of my previous MTBs. Slower in some instances (if a downhill trail flattens out for example) as if you're already at or over the 15.5mph limit its hard to put a few extra cranks in to get more speed as your fighting the motor's drag/resistance. Not an issue on a normal bike.
