I recently started riding a new bike, one with a set of Talas. As it was new and my first adjustable travel fork I kept forgetting to lower it. On a recent ride my two companions reminded me and then began debating. One is a huge fan of dropping his fork for climbs and general pedaling where as the other said he felt like his bike got harder to pedal and he experienced drag - though he had no reasonable explanation of why.
Since then I've been dropping the fork travel and I've got to say, There's a noticeable amount of drag. I was off the bike checking brakes weren't scrubbing and that everything is smooth - then I clicked the fork travel to full and the heavy drag went. Click it down and it's back.
Anyone else experience this? I can see no real reason for it. A slight shift of weight to the front would maybe explain a little difference but it feels less subtle than that. I don't think there's anything mechanically wrong as my friend - a very experienced rider AND mechanic - also experiences it.
Never seen, heard or experienced anything like it with near on 10 years of travel adjust forks.
Your body position changes and on some bikes that may put you way out for the frame (depending on the drop)apart from that I have no ideas.
I hate to suggest it but is this the power of suggestion?
The American mag, MBA debated this one some time ago. There is some physics to back it up and you're not the only person to have felt it.
Yep, set of 2012 36 kashima talas,Trek Remedy 9, bike seems to double in weight when lowered, my solution ........not lowered in last 6 months!!!!
On older frames with slacker seat angles and steeper head angles dropping the front used to help a bit with the front end wandering on steep climbs, but on newer frames with steeper seat angles and slacker head angles it feels like your too far forward and too front heavy to pedal efficiently,
so it depends on your frame IMO..
😉
Mechanically shirley, nothing changes on the disc or pads to increase rub, I guess the tyre isn't touching the crown or fork bridge...
Maybe just a balance/weight change your feeling... Personally I like my Talas wound down on the flat or climbing..
I have often thought this with my Stumpjumper fsr. When the fork is dropped, it feels like my tyres have gone flat, not that I have to drop it very often...
Unless something is catching I can't see how it would slow a rotating wheel?
At a guess...
As you lower your forks you'll weight your front tyre more, and as most bikes these days with travel adjust forks would be of the more AM variety, could it be that they are using fatter, stickier rubber on the front tyre, than they are on the back.
So, as you load the front tyre more, you are putting more weight through the stickier tyre, and so making it feel more draggy.
After all, changing tyres normally can make a difference.
I use u-turn pikes on my 2005 orange five, it deff helps climbing with the travel dropped to 120mm from 140mm. So maybe it is the old geom v new geom thing?!?
My Edison feels exactly like this at the most extreme drop of fork travel. Always thought it was just me experiencing this!
Been experiencing this since around 2005 with my Marzocchi's on my 5 spot and talked on here about it back at the time. I didnt like how far the all mountain 2's dropped as this was the biggest problem. A nightmare.
Every fork when dropped too low,drives the bike into the ground and rides slower. If people have been riding talas or u turn style forks and haven't noticed this at all I'm surprised.
Wind a fork out a little more (my turner flux with the fork wound out to 140mm on an easy climb feels quicker than at 100mm)
Funkynick+1
Sound reasoning there. My primitive brain is thinking similar to the weight going in front of the driving force, decreasing grip on the drive and increasing drag.
I'm sure the doctor of physics I work with would tell me I'm an idiot though, and its about the uncertainty principle.
Hasn't happened with any of my bikes tbh. But then the only ones I drop the forks on are the ones that don't climb brilliantly at full length, so maybe there's a balance there.
Some forks have different damping etc on their shorter settings too which might have an impact- all mine are Rockshox u-turn and they function perfectly at the reduced settings, no different from a standard shorter travel fork really.
Andyrm, the Edison suffers from this too but I'll tell you something, even dropped right down it still does very well compared to a lot of the other combo's.
Feels the same here.
2 position Talas 110-140 on Helius CC - 110 feels fine climbing but on the flat feels really slow and harder work. I've switched between the 2 settings and it definitely happens.
Northwind, the all mountain 2's were as good as locked out in short travel mode. They were the slowest feeling fork I've had when dropped.
Then we ask why the likes of a Project two (before the longer sus corrected one's) can romp up hills fitted to the correct frames with ease.
Neninja, I think it's all about balancing the rider weight correctly regardless of fork length.
If you fitted a fork 3 inches shorter but raised the bars to the same original position, I wonder how it would all pan out?
Funkynick, even when my Marz all mountain 2 was dropped right down it would still drag on steep climbs where the weight was more towards the rear. It's strange!
i feel exactly the same thing with my strive, lower the forks and it immediately feels heavier to ride, to be perfectly honest i think talas forks are a solution looking for a problem, you can get the same effect by simply shifting your weight slightly.
Yip!
I've found this with several bikes, and originally I figured i must've been imagining it, but after many many uphill slogs alone with my thoughts I have decided it is a combination of increased rolling resistance as the front tyre is weighted more and a subtle change in kinematics... I only ever use Talas now on really steep stuff where the front wheel really wants to lift.
to be perfectly honest i think talas forks are a solution looking for a problem
going back 6/7 years TALAS (and all other wind down forks - I had ETA ones in 04) made a huge difference. Current head angles were not really available on trail bikes so to get the right angle you could use a bigger fork (which was also better for some of us) but you ended up with a bike that wanted to roll you off the back on any hill.
Lock down (EAT/U-Turn/2-Step/TALAS) gave you the option to have a normal climbing bike with a longer fork (ie fork out was over the suggested length for the bike) current trail/AM bikes have a more balanced geometry with seat angle etc helping out so the need is going but still serves a purpose.
TALAS (Travel Adjust Linear Air Sprung - I think) in it's other feature gives you (or should) coli like feel without the weight penalty due to it being linear. Downside is you need more/better damping to prevent it diving through the travel - something the progressive nature of air helps with.
So back to your point modern bike design has caught up with people and the TALAS(generic lock down) is now a solution to an older problem that some bikes have cured.
Edit#
My 2 bikes that I used most
04 Enduro allowed you to flip the link plate to steepen the HA so I did that when I fitted longer forks (same geometry running 150mm & 130mm)
Heckler I got a longer e2e shock (same stroke) to correct for running long A2C 160mm forks so it balances better.
They were the slowest feeling fork I've had when dropped.
I meant - The fork that made my bike feel the slowest when the travel was dropped!