Cheers George, that’s sort of what I was thinking. I’m currently on a large, 2016 Helius Ac with a reach of 455mm…
I tend to ride some steep / techy / tree lined /twisty stuff so I don’t want too much of a boat.
Reach is obviously going to be longer, how does ETT match up to current bike? For all the talk about length, seated position with a short (35mm) stem is quite normal.
I’m looking at a g16 frame just now in size Medium/Longer – does that sound sensible at 180cm
I'm 6' and have had a G13, G16 and G1 all in Large.
Mrsstu also has a G16 in Medium which I could ride if I had to but prefer the Large.
Main riding is Tweed Valley so pretty steep and tight.
George, These are the numbers on my current bike - size large:
Top tube wise, looks like 625mm on the Helius vs 641mm on the longer G16.
I’m running a 50mm stem on the Helius. I guess with a 35mm stem the g16 would feel fairly similar position wise when climbing.
Stu - thanks for the feedback - sounds like at 5.11 I could go for either size then. That seems to be exactly what Nicolai suggest with their size guide on the tech sheet. Either top end of medium or bottom end of large.
What stem length / bar setup are you using on your large?
Yeah, that's what I thought, will be a fairly normal seated position, and longer reach.
Friend has a medium at you height. There's an adjustment with riding style either way, I guess, but the smaller may feel more normal for you. 35 stem seems to be the normal.
35 mm stem and 30mm rise bar.
@aldo56 I am 177cm and ride a Medium/Longer G16. 35mm stem and 800mm bars. If your near Bournemouth/Poole your welcome to try it for size.
Cheers Jimmy - I'm in Glasgow so maybe not ideal!
It's sounding like the medium / longer likely do me fine - especially with a 50mm stem on there.
But I could likely also ride the large / longest no problem.
@aldo56, I reckon you'd be fine on a medium/long. I'm 187cm on a extra-longest G15, in Falkirk - I'd offer you to swing a leg over it but at 5'11 it might be a struggle! I'd probably manage with the next size down. Reminds me I really need to try a 35mm stem instead of the 50mm currently on it.
And if it's the G16 in Aberdeen, probably worth getting BOTH shocks with it.
I would say Norco Optic if you can find one..
@spaniardclimber, that geometry looks good on paper - but as you say, finding one. The thought of Evans puts me right off too.
aldo.
If you're coming over to the valley give us a shout and you can have a sit on a medium G16 and a large G1.
Thanks for the help guys - much appreciated!
Ally - That's the one, why do you say that? (I was going to only go for the 155mm setup...)
Ally – That’s the one, why do you say that? (I was going to only go for the 155mm setup…)
Only reason being the seller asking what IMO is a small amount for the second shock. Even if you barely used it, it'd be a good spare to have.
Saying that, I've got 'only' 145mm on my G15 with a X2 shock and it feels bottomless so far, so not sure I'd benefit from more travel on mine.
Getting ahead of myself and thinking of my build now...
What's the verdict on fork travel on a G16? I've got a tuned up 160mm Yari/Lyric to hand but I see lots of people running 170mm forks with the 650b wheels. Can you get away with both or would I be better ordering the 170mm air shaft?
My 36's are 180mm with 27.5 wheels. I've never tried anything shorter so I can't comment on geometry changes. I did switch from a 15 to 40mm rise bar because the front end felt a little low.
180mm 27.5 or 160 29er is kind of the norm for the G16.
I have never put 180mm on mine (yes I am the seller in Aberdeenshire).
I have used
170mm on the 175mm 650b, 160mm on the 155 29er and 150mm on the 155 mullet (my favourite setting)
Each fork was a Lyrik, initially RCT2 650b then a ultimate 29er, then a ultimate 29er with a smashpot coil on the mullet.
Hope it helps
Some man - cheers Fly.
Bit of a thread resurrection just to say 7 months on and I'm still absolutely loving my G1. It's so capable, so plush and compliant, incredible on steep tech and fun flow trails alike, and I've never had any problems doing tight switchbacky type stuff even running a full 29er setup. The fact that I'm in the FOD too close to Geometron HQ is great, I've called in a few times for some setup tips and spare parts and the service is second to none.
Until I get to the point where literally everyone I know has an ebike, this is the bike I'm keeping until then. I have zero need or desire for any other bike and it's just the best! Bit of a gushy post but it's all true. Hope all you other geometron owners are having a great time too.
Two years into my G1, having had a G16 before it (and a G13 that I stiil ride too), loving it, jut a great bike
Have they figured out how to get a water bottle into the frame yet? Have they even tried?
Around 6 months with my G15 and happy. Saying that, haven’t ridden it for about 8 weeks after the arrival of a younger, more athletic sister: Nicolai Saturn 14. That’s better suited to my local trails, saving my G15 with its burlier build for days away at Golfie, uplift etc.
Took the opportunity to polish up my G15 frame, this time to a duller, brushed finish using a Scotchbrite red pad rather than shiny like I first did. Then acid etched it using phosphoric acid. THEN waxed it. Hopefully prevents the staining from sweat (ewwwww) I was causing.
Yeah loving my G1! Hard to fault it apart from maybe the twistiest stuff. Everywhere else it just feels so composed. Definitely the bike I've been looking for, for some time.
No and doesn't seem like it. It's a total non issue to me though, I have a HT with a bottle mount but have never used it.
Would love to tell you I'm having a lovely time with my G15 still, but sadly knee problems have put paid to that. Long story short, I've not been able to ride an unassisted MTB for more than 4 months since doing some serious damage to my knee, and physio says it will be another 6-8 months (so a full year potentially) before I can ride an unassisted MTB again...
So sadly mine is for sale to go towards funding a new lightweight eMTB...
https://singletrackworld.com/classifieds/advert/geometron-g15-medium-longer/
a11y
Around 6 months with my G15 and happy. Saying that, haven’t ridden it for about 8 weeks after the arrival of a younger, more athletic sister: Nicolai Saturn 14
Any pics of the Saturn, a1ly? Is it the ST or the regular?
I have a G13, but always tempted by shiny stuff
Have they figured out how to get a water bottle into the frame yet? Have they even tried?
Surely they could just make the frame longer?
I see they only list the G1 on the website.
Is that the only model they do?
I see they only list the G1 on the website.
Yep. Nicolai do a wider range of similar frames though: https://en.nicolai-bicycles.com/full-suspension/
Surely they could just make the frame longer?
😀
Any pics of the Saturn, a1ly? Is it the ST or the regular?
@honourablegeorge, it was your suggestion that put the Saturn 14 on my radar, despite initially dismissing it as too close in purpose to my G15, so thanks! Mine's a regular, bought "new" via classifieds from Paul Aston rather than factory order, so no choice in regular vs ST. XL frame, DPX2 shock, Pikes from PSA on here (now at 140) and leftovers from my Tallboy. Still tweaking suspension settings but already very happy with how it rides. A bit more travel than I intended; a Saturn 11 with 120f/105r would've been enough travel for me but the standard geometry didn't appeal. Could've gone custom geo but quite a bit more £££ than I was prepared to spend.
Nice. That is not helping my shiny things problem one little bit.
Question to all the GeometronHeads out there...
There doesn't seem to be a lot of love for the G15
I am looking at a G15 as a potential "days out on big hills" bike. It has what I would look at now a trail bike geometry rather that the extreme HA of others in the Geometron stable.
My other bike is a FlareMax ( so 130/120)
Would the G15 be too close to the FlareMax ?
Time for this thread to have a bit of a bump, on my way back from north Wales today I stopped in at Geometron HQ and had a chat with one of the guys (and a quick ride/bounce in the car park) about the new S1 and G1...
I think I'll be in the market for one of them this autumn, my current XXL Jeffsy 29 with a coil rear 150mm and mezzer pro front 160mm will be 3 years old and time for a change I think.
I'll be getting a demo day booked in as there's no way I could make my mind up between both without comparing back to back, on paper the S1 would be enough for the type of riding I do, but I also have a hardtail for mellow stuff/trail centres/when I want to abuse myself in the lakes/peaks/Scotland, so if a G1 pedals well enough to do consecutive big days in the mountains (150km and 4000+m climbing over 5 days is pretty regular) then why not go a bit slacker and have 160/170mm on my second bike? 🤨😁
My other bike is a FlareMax ( so 130/120)
Would the G15 be too close to the FlareMax ?
@mrmoofo, 2 months later (missed this post initially) but if it still helps, I'd say a Flaremax + G15 would be a good 2-bike stable. The current Flaremax was top of my shortlist when I was adding a shorter-travel bike to my existing G15, before I bought the Saturn 14 pictured a few posts above. I've got 140f/130r on the Saturn 14 and 160f/145r on the G15 - they feel quite different bikes to ride: more satisfaction from precise line choice on the Saturn, whereas you can blitz stuff more easily on the G15.
@ta11pau1, S1 vs G1 is something I've yet to look at as I find even my G15 with 145 rear more than enough for what I ride - biggest stuff I do is the likes of Golfie, Dunkeld and occasional Alps trips. Love the idea of a G1 in future but was always concerned it'd be too much bike, so you might be right in thinking the S1 would be a good alternative. Definitely time for a demo day - for you, not me (another swap of bike is too soon for me!).
S1 vs G1 is something I’ve yet to look at as I find even my G15 with 145 rear more than enough for what I ride – biggest stuff I do is the likes of Golfie, Dunkeld and occasional Alps trips. Love the idea of a G1 in future but was always concerned it’d be too much bike, so you might be right in thinking the S1 would be a good alternative. Definitely time for a demo day – for you, not me (another swap of bike is too soon for me!).
The guy (can't remember his name, but damn they were helpful) explained it well, the S1 is perfect for someone with just the one bike, whereas the G1 is a great companion to a shorter travel bike/hardtail. The S1 was also explained as a trail bike scaled up, and the G1 as a downhill bike scaled down that can also pedal.
Obviously with both bikes there's all the options of set up etc, they can get the G1 feeling poppy and fun, or plush and planted based on your preference, so yeah I 100% need a decent ride on both to decide.
The G1 I rode was an XL and despite the ETT being within 5mm of my bike it felt short when seated, I guess that's thanks to the 79 degree SA, ETT still doesn't tell you everything when I have a kinked seat tube on my jeffsy and the saddle goes further back despite the measurements on paper being the same...
I’ll be getting a demo day booked in as there’s no way I could make my mind up between both without comparing back to back, on paper the S1 would be enough for the type of riding I do, but I also have a hardtail for mellow stuff/trail centres/when I want to abuse myself in the lakes/peaks/Scotland, so if a G1 pedals well enough to do consecutive big days in the mountains (150km and 4000+m climbing over 5 days is pretty regular) then why not go a bit slacker and have 160/170mm on my second bike?
I haven't had an issue with my G1 on big consecutive days. Over the 4 day easter weekend I did 5 rides, 130km, 4205m elevation in total. I would say that if you already have a hardtail the G1 is the sensible choice but it would be best to demo both just to compare!
I still adore this bike a year after getting it. I've swapped out the Formula Selva Rs to C (air to coil) and they're insanely good, paired with the Storia at the back and this bike is just ridiculously capable. Until I decide to take the plunge and get an ebike (still a few years out I reckon) I am completely happy with this bike.
Someone in this thread had a G1 with a different shock and adjustments to make it closer to the G13.
You could always get the G1 with bits for longer and shorter travel.
My G13 was fine for me at Whistler, including a couple of big days outside the bike park so I imagine the G1 would been even better on the big stuff/ big days out.
I have both a G13 and a G1
Have no problems doing back to back 1300 meters days on either of them.
I'm just a little slower on the climbs on the G1. Not a massive difference mind.
Would also love to try the S1 but I'm not even looking at it ATM to avoid temptation.
Yeah they said they can also configure the g1 with 140mm if required, so many options.
And even at 162mm it's 'only' 10mm more than my current bike on the rear, with 160 or 170 up front. But then also the option of going up to 170mm rear and up to 180mm front as my forks are a 30 min job to change travel... For those bike park/uplift days 😁
I'm finding the climbs I'm doing on these big days are generally either fireroad climbs, gentle to steep, or mega steep and/or technical.
I've had mine set up 170mm front and back since getting it and haven't had any desire to change it honestly. I took it to Dyfi Bike Park in March and it was incredible. Fast chunky stuff felt absolutely amazing.
I changed up from a Banshee Prime to a G1 back in September after having a shot of a couple of mates G1's. It's definitely the most capable bike I've ridden, especially on the steeper, rougher trails. It takes some body English to get around tight switchbacks but it's doable. I ride Aberfoyle, Dunkeld, Inners etc on it and it's phenomenal on those types of trails.
For those asking about bottle mounts, I've gone for a Fidlock mounted on the top-tube like this and whilst it looks a little unconventional it works just fine Sicklines
I run a mullet set-up with 160mm Lyrics and 162mm on the rear, will try a 29" on the back at some point. As mentioned numerous times before the assistance from the Geometron guys is second to none, always there to assist with any queries you may have.
Wheels and tyres will make a huge difference to how the bike rides. If I put my xc wheels on the G1, its not dissimilar in speed round the local xc loop than my 130mm trail bike.
I would pay more attention to the build than the amount of travel:
-Do you need a Zeb? Would a Lyrik be ok
I'll be transferring the majority of parts from my current bike, so mezzer pro forks, E13 carbon wheels which have seen me through the last 2.5 years, they've a few battle scars but they're straight and have taken all the abuse I give them, they're also fairly light at 1750g, along with rimpact inserts and vittoria 1000g trail casing tyres - never *touch wood* had a puncture or rim ding in the 2.5 years with the bike.
So not a really burly build but not light either, in the middle - with light enough wheels/tyres to help with agility.
@tall_paul - Nicolai have just launched an XXXL version of the Saturn 14. That's three 'X's - the reach is 678mm 🙂
@tall_paul – Nicolai have just launched an XXXL version of the Saturn 14. That’s three ‘X’s – the reach is 678mm 🙂
Calm yourself, you've read the stack rather than reach off the chart! Reach on the XXXL is 'only' 570mm 🙂
🤣🤣🤣 was just checking this myself, yeah 570mm reach - same as the biggest Saturn 16/S1.
Still pretty big! Give it another 10 years and we'll be on 678mm reach with a 95 degree seat angle and 58 degree head angles 😁
I'm getting that "3 year itch" with my current bike/frame, a G1 is winking at me. Just need to arrange a demo day once they've got an S1 in an XL size.
Ah, that's no fun. 570 is all very normal.
G15 owners: any experience with coil shocks that aren't the EXT Storia? (simply, EXT is waaaay beyond budget)
Thinking about trying a coil in place of my slightly squelchy X2. Something like the Cane Creek DB Coil IL or Marzocchi Bomber CR (Vanilla RC). 216x63mm / 8.5x2.5" required. Haven't heard much about Rock Shox coils, and Fox are quite spendy.
I've got my other bike for lighter work so not too fussed about adding weight if the performance makes it worthwhile.
Cane Creek DB Coil IL
Can't speak from a G15 point of view but I've had one of these on my jeffsy for a while (Aug 2020), zero complaints at all. If it fitted my next frame it'd be coming with me.
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The climb switch stiffens both the low speed compression and rebound so you don't get the pogoing with stiffer compression and normal rebound. It does have a slight 'click' when in climb mode but that's completely normal. Tbh I only ever use climb mode on long tarmac climbs, so very rarely. I think I've gone 1 click different on LSC from the reccomend settings and never looked back. Handles long rocky fast lakes/Scottish descents with ease.
If you're doing sustained, repeated, long rough descents you might want a piggyback but for my use it's been fine.
Marzocchi Bomber CR
Not on any of our Geometrons but had 2x Bomber shocks piss oil everywhere on the Kenevos.
Spech have warrantied them with different shocks now.
Might be a problem with the way the linkage works on the Kenevo but worth bearing in mind.
@ta11pau1, thanks. That sounds positive and I'd read about the slight click that can occur. The lack of piggyback is only a minor concern - I'd love to claim I'm hammering long rocky descents weekly, but realistically the only time I'll ever do sustained long descents is (very) occasional Alps trips, and even then its Les Arcs stuff rather than shredding bike parks. A friend has the same shock on a Deviate and has no issues using it out in the Alps, I need a chat with him.
Not on any of our Geometrons but had 2x Bomber shocks piss oil everywhere on the Kenevos.
Ah, the appeal of the Bomber CR to me has been it's supposed reliability! That style of linkage - I think - puts quite a bit of sideways pressure on the shock, but I've heard the G15 is similar due to the linkage style and long seatstays. I know the shaft on the Marzocchi is aluminium while the CC IL has a steel shaft which should be harder wearing, so perhaps there's more in favour of that.
Both times it was from the eyelet where it joins the shock shaft.
Think it puts pressure on it where it's screwed together.
Both shocks had recalls before they finally let go.
Both times it was from the eyelet where it joins the shock shaft.
Think it puts pressure on it where it’s screwed together.
That's EXACTLY what a bloke from TF Tuned mentioned to me this afternoon when I was chatting about shocks. IIRC the side loads of some bike designs exacerbate this.
TBH I think its the way the end of the shock is mounted sideways on the Spech that causes it.
G15 is mounted more traditionally so doesn't have a huge lever bolted to the bottom of the shock.
Just though I'd give my experiences in case it helps.
Ext's I've had on G13/16/1 have been very good. 😉
Ext’s I’ve had on G13/16/1 have been very good. 😉
LA LA LA LA LA I'm not listening, fingers are in my ears 😁
Has anyone on here long shocked a g15? I have a 222×70 to go on in place of the stock 216×63, and I was just wondering what other changes you made. Increase of fork travel, offset bushings etc, and how it affected the rest of the geometry.
Hi all
Just wanted to say I have an XL G1 frameset with EXT storia for sale on Pinkbike if anyone is interested. Price £2000. PM me if interested.
Thanks
Has anyone on here long shocked a g15? I have a 222×70 to go on in place of the stock 216×63
Give Geometron a call. I spoke to Sam last week about spring rate for a coil shock I have incoming for my G15. I briefly mentioned about long-shocking my G15 - TBH it wasn't really something I'd seriously considered as the bike works great as is for me, but since I was replacing the shock I thought I'd at least ask. I believe clearance between tyre and ST becomes an issue unless you mullet it, but then that has further consequences on overall geometry (particularly the ST angle). Best giving them a call, Sam was really helpful.
So the S1 is not to be, don't think it was what they wanted it to be. Instead there's going to be a G1ST package to make it 140mm rear/150mm front travel.
Makes my life easier as I would have been between the S1 and G1, fingers crossed the short travel kit uses the standard length shock, with that kit and a fork travel change the G1 will be 140mm, 160mm and 175mm travel all in one!
Will be interesting to see how the 140/150 option compares to the standard 160/170 set up, I'll still be getting a proper test day in later this year.
Kind of odd, they showed pics of the complete bike and the geo charts, then decided against it.
Wondering where it broke down, they mentioned production schedules too, so not just the bike itself behind the decision.
G1 ST seems kind of pointless if it's just the same frame running a shorter stroke shock.
The bikes they had wasn't exactly their version, for example they had the rivnuts/mounts removed as they see that as a weak point on the downtube.
Saw that sale @honourablegeorge but that's a bare frame without shock, works out at £2180 - 2100 euros @ £1790 + 22%, you'd then need the ext storia at £950, without the Geometron goodness, which is £3150 pretty much. I'd rather pay the extra 150 quid to get the support of Geometron and the spherical bearings.
Edit - ahh, forgot that the nicolai site includes vat at 19%, so that's actually 1764 euros £1500 + 22% = £1830 so £2780 total.
Don't think you'd be paying German VAT, so take 20% off the 2100 first. You could get the shock from Geometron with the spherical goodness.
Yeah, corrected that 😉😁
How do the Geometron guys treat frames/bikes bought from nicolai rather than the through them? If there was the full after sales support etc along with being able to get the shock from them then that's perked my interest a little.
Just send them an email or give them a call and ask! They're really friendly and by far the most helpful bike company I've ever dealt with. I'm sure they'd be more than willing to offer support and parts.
Issue 143 of the mag dropped through my letterbox just now, had a quick flick through and it magically fell open on Benji's G1 mullet review, with the line below sticking out a little 😁
The Geometron G1 is the best mountain bike I've ever ridden
I'll have a full read later on today.
I think he liked it...
https://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/review-geometron-g1/
Gah, I need to repeat to myself "I'm happy on my G15, I'm happy on my G15, I'm happy on my G15" 😁
Read that yesterday, I think that's the tipping point. Need to sort my pennies out...
Pretty sure he like it 😀
Yep, almost tempted to order directly without a demo day, but I know spending a day with the guys will be hugely beneficial & I gather if you want stock colours (raw & black) you can take one with you on the day.
I gather if you want stock colours (raw & black) you can take one with you on the day.
I suspect guarantee I'd walk out of Geometron HQ with a new frame if I ever paid them a visit. Thankfully(?) we've changed our summer hol plans from Wales to Skye this year.
Saying all that, I've just fitted a new shock to my G15 and yet to ride it. Definitely not in a position for a G1. Yet.
Edit, TBH I'm happy with what I've got: most of the performance of a G1 but with my G15 frame (and now new shock) costing me <50% of a G1.
When my G16 was nicked I didn't get enough insurance money to to cover a G1 so I decided to try something else instead of stretching the finances too far.
I should have stretched dammit! Got too much other stuff competing for my cash now.
When I got mine 5 years ago people used to look at it and laugh and make all kinds of assumptions about how horrible it would be to ride and how it wouldn't go uphill or around corners etc. I spent all my time trying to tell people how normal it felt. Then when it got steep and rough it was in a league of its own.
I'd love to try a full 29er version now that I've converted to big wheels.
Yep, almost tempted to order directly without a demo day, but I know spending a day with the guys will be hugely beneficial & I gather if you want stock colours (raw & black) you can take one with you on the day.
It's a no brainer to do a demo with them if it's not too much of a hassle to get there. The setup and their advice is really eye opening and when I did it I got a lot more out of it than just sitting on a new bike. It was a really good day. Plus if you do end up buying one you'll already be familiar with the guys from your demo day which helps because you'll constantly be picking their brains about something!
It’s a no brainer to do a demo with them if it’s not too much of a hassle to get there. The setup and their advice is really eye opening and when I did it I got a lot more out of it than just sitting on a new bike. It was a really good day. Plus if you do end up buying one you’ll already be familiar with the guys from your demo day which helps because you’ll constantly be picking their brains about something!
I need to sort out a trip, unfortunately they're a bit too far for a day trip (7hr round trip) so I'll need to tie it in with a few days in south Wales or Dartmoor/Exmoor etc.
Also things like tweaking the geometry, my fork at 170mm is a bit longer a-to-c than the reference fork, but I think they can just throw the figures until their software and get the bike back to the correct geo.
I'm interested to see what the 'ST' pack includes, although I'm not sure I'd want/need it as I have a hardtail for when I don't need loads of travel.
Any Geometron owners got a spare 0 offset rado mech hanger they'd be looking to sell?
Clattered my mech off a rock yesterday, fortunately looks like the mech is ok but the hangers twisted.
Will give Geometron a call for one next week just thought I'd try here first, thanks
So, I had my demo day at Geometron HQ yesterday with Marcel. Rode an XL G1 set at 175mm travel and with a 170mm fork. Did the car park set up stuff then went off on an 2hr, 13km ride on the trails behind Geometron HQ.
Riding along on flat or on steady climbs it felt, well... Completely normal. The rear shock barely moved when climbing, didn't need the lock out lever at all.
Doing some descending, on the steeper stuff I eventually started to weigh the front enough and the bike just oozed confidence and felt better and better the more I put weight on the front wheel when descending.
Overall it didn't feel massively cumbersome or even that big, apart from the slightly strange steering at very slow speeds and being able to see ALL of the fork out in front of the bars, I wouldn't have know it was that big of a bike. But on the descents and especially on the steep stuff it started to come alive. Didn't do much faster rocky stuff but the short, steepish section we did it felt excellent.
In short, I'll be ordering one in a few weeks once I've got the jeffsy stripped to a frame and put up for sale! 😁
Excellent. Although that’s exactly why I’m not planning to test ride a G1!
Saying that, I took delivery of a Longest G16 frame yesterday and going to swap everything over from my XL G15. Saw it at a good price, was curious. At 187cm I’m keen to try the slightly smaller frame - a 15mm reduction in reach. Was also curious about more travel given I’ve got my Saturn 14 at 140/130 for trail duties. Initially it’ll be 155mm with my 216x63 shock, full 29, but I’ve got the bits to build a 27.5 rear wheel and run it at 175mm if I get a 222x70 shock. Or might just mullet it at 155mm. It’s a good 2deg slacker HA too. Options options options.
I’ll keep whatever frame I prefer, sell the other.
Honestly I'll probably just leave the bike in the 175mm travel setting, didn't feel wallowy or bad when just pedalling along.
@a11y.
I've got a couple of Float X2 Factory shocks spare that both came off G16's in 222x70 flavour if you're interested?