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[i]What worries me more is the big retailers who could offer lower prices but dont. They take the full retail where possible. Possibly to fund their expansion but still. Cough Cyclesurgery cough Evans.
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Why shouldn't they? Does your business do things at the lowest possible price if things are going well enough at a higher price?
I just want to add. I'd love to buy everything from my LBS however I can't afford to. If I could afford I would as I couldnt be arsed going online, waiting, trawling to find things. However the tighter the money the more you have to look for the cheapest. I hate people looking down on you though for shopping online. Sorry, my wage is only so big compared to my outgoings 🙂
I just want to add. I'd love to buy everything from my LBS however I can't afford to.
So you try and steal bikes from black people instead?
I think the distributors are criminals in this too - from the sounds of it they give far more support to the likes of CRC with their guaranteed large orders than to the LBSs trying to get one or two parts a week.
When I was buying a bike about 2 years ago the shop tried to get Juicy 5's (not exactly uncommon brakes) in as an upgrade. He spent about a week talking to the distributor, but they just didn't get them to him. So he actually recommended that I buy them on CRC and bring them in to get fitted!
Top bloke for offering, and it shows that there was little in it for him price-wise too. In the end I bought them from a shop down the road who matched CRC price and fitted them myself.
So you try and steal bikes from black people instead?
I don't think it was his bike tbh
allyharp - i think thats a tad on the harsh side. distributors can have various reasons for not being able to send something to a shop. eg the shop could be on credit hold, or the shop may not have an account with them etc.
to say they are criminal is out of order.
as a shop we get great support from our distributors. cant say a bad thing about any of them.
they do not give preference to the larger customers because there is the simple fact that often these cheaper bargain goods are not bought from the distributor...
the £40 rear mech proved to be awesome last night on my new mm bop.
money well spent in the end......... 😉
so can we now put this post to bed..
depending on quantity ordered a RDM591SGSL will cost the shop between £21 & £23 plus shipping from Madison. FACT
that says to me if a shop does sell fur RRP then they in reality its 50% margin?
Grey market is an unfair comparison- i.e. you have to front all your own warranty returns and swallow the loss of each one yourself.
Businesses are run on price and service. You cant reasonably expect your customers to stay if just the service is there in the middle of a long recession can you? 🙁
it would be nice if woodrups got an apology for the implication and slight on their character that they in some way attempted to rip someone off for SHOCK HORROR pricing something in their shop at normal retail.
just a thought mind.
that might then 'put it to bed'.
> to say they are criminal is out of order
I was using criminal [b]very[/b] loosely. As in the OP considering the LBS criminal for their prices. Obviously neither the distributor nor the LBS are doing anything wrong.
You cant reasonably expect your customers to stay if just the service is there in the middle of a long recession can you?
Why not? Think of your lbs having the same business model as your car sales yard- most of it's money is earned in sales and servicing, where it charges rrp for parts. Accessory and spares over the counter go out at rrp. You can normally find the parts and consumables cheaper elsewhere yourself, and either fit them yourself, or take them to the service counter to be fitted and put up with the grumbles.
depending on quantity ordered a RDM591SGSL will cost the shop between £21 & £23 plus shipping from Madison. FACT
No VAT on those either, or shipping. Retail is £44.99.
markd - Member
it would be nice if woodrups got an apology for the implication and slight on their character that they in some way attempted to rip someone off for SHOCK HORROR pricing something in their shop at normal retail.just a thought mind.
that might then 'put it to bed'.
😆 lots
Why not? Think of your lbs having the same business model as your car sales yard- most of it's money is earned in sales and servicing, where it charges rrp for parts.
Yeah, where oil changes is probably the cycle tyres of the car world?
Im glad there is soo much open competition in the car world. Going back a few years there was a complete monopoly on the aftermarket spares market for the manufacturers wasnt there. Thank **** the governments saw sense and opened it up.
The whole rrp thing is wrong IMHO. Why should a distributor or manufaturer try to dictate how much a product is sold to the end customer for? If rrps were removed, then retailers would have to THINK how much they needed to sell that item for. Depending on the Market, location etc. Some lbs' would be able to charge above current rrp prices and other retailers business model would allow them to charge less. Why shouldn't a central London lbs not be able to charge a premium on a bike, above rrp, to reflect the higher costs of running a business there.
RRPs are bad for customers and bad for retailers. RIP rrps !
So what would you do with the list price on new cars?
[i]So what would you do with the list price on new cars? [/i]
Same rules apply, but it may be difficult if the manufacturer also owns the dealer network.
Its a fairly simple concept - why should the distributor or manufacturer dictate how much an item should be sold for, and therefore how much margin a retailer should make?
Retailers need to identify and work with their own market. Not all market conditions are the same, so the end price shouldn't be the same either.
So a boutique bike store on park lane, should be able to sell Lansgters at way above the current RRP if it thinks the market would stand it, and box shifters with lower per unit overheads should be able to discount.
Do we all remember when we all paid the price printed on the cover for books? Its protectionism for the distributors and its wrong IMHO.
Of course, people will say its only the [b]recommended[/b] retail price and shops can sell for what they want, but in reality its an arbitary reference which shops use to sell at that price if they choose (hide behind perhaps?), or refer to when having a 'sale'.
Now has anyone seen my stepladder, cos this horse is a bit too high for me to jump off without help 😉
Too many people today know the price of everything but the value of nothing
markd, i manage a trade counter selling aerials, cctv, satellite equipment.
the cold truth is pricematch or lose the sale.
Ok Ton, so if you were selling an item which cost you £30.00 trade, and it had an rrp of £45 and one of your customers says they can get it elsewhere for £25, you would rather sell the item for a £5 loss rather than lose the sale....
..Actually, I need a new aerial for my Freeview, can you sell me one for less than trade price please?
Where I get my car serviced will fit parts supplied by me 😀 Means I can buy brake discs/pads off the internet cheaper than they source locally and they charge me for labour. The online retailer imports from Japan and undercuts any Mazda dealer. We all win. Garage gets money for the labour, online retailer makes money, I save money and get them fitted.
Too many people today know the price of everything but the value of nothing
Too many people today know think people should overpay and undervalue their customers.
In business you need to give a good/competitive price AND a good level of service. Theres just too much competition out there.
Again, yes I support my LBS however I cant give them 100% of my business. Just as you couldnt afford to have your secondhand car serviced, parts replaced and repaired at your local Franchised main dealer either.
You use a GREY source.
Saying all this. Someone has got to reveal what the margins are for distributors, sell price to dealers etc.
A few years back I was speaking to the owner of a certain bike company. He didnt realise the prices the Uk distributor was charging when I mentioned in passing. So he said he'd relook at the prices he sold them to and RAISE them. He seemed genuinely surprised (he thought they would be about 40% lower) and I was too as I assumed he would know this at the time. I wont name names either.
Saying all this. Someone has got to reveal what the margins are for distributors, sell price to dealers etc.
Look up the page, trade on a Deore mech retailing for £45 is between £21 and £23 + VAT, delivery etc depending on how many you buy/how good a dealer you are. That's a bigger margin than a lot of products. Chris King b/bs may only be £50 buy you quite probably have to buy 8 to get that, a lot of small shops can't/won't hold £800 worth of bottom brackets on the shop floor.
As for your last paragraph Hora it doesn't even make sense. Drunk at 6 o clock?
trade on a Deore mech retailing for £45 is between £21 and £23 + VAT, delivery etc
So about a 40% markup then?
Chris King b/bs may only be £50 buy you quite probably have to buy 8 to get that, a lot of small shops can't/won't hold £800 worth of bottom brackets on the shop floor.
I make that £400. Ontop of the fact that they will probably sell so wont sit there gathering dust.
What is worrying is what is the sell price on the XTR rear un? 😯
look what landed at my work today...........
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=20700
should i keep it or send it back now that i have found a inferior product for the same price.............doh
How does one select a LBS anyway? Do you have to chose the closest? What if you live in Norwich*? Is it like chosing a local pub? Do you pay the landlord £4 for a pint because hes closest to you?
*Gulp
if you want to moan at anyone moan at outdoor clothing retailers .... mark up on that is rediculous FACT - and it doesnt get down priced much on the net either (not the stuff im looking for anyway )
Hmmm I see Howies as the next logical progression..
haha i mean real outdoors kit ... not howies ...
want a rab neutrino vest or a snugpak softie vest - and ill have to pay around 100 quid for the privaledge - i happy to know the trade on both items and it makes me baulk having to pay what ill have to pay to get em - but they are worth it to me - much like an XTR mech is worth it to me
Funnily, years ago I bought a top of the range ski jacket direct from China (where they are made) for a tenth of the price.
My statement of the moment as we head towards Ikea blessed times; "People know the price of everything and the value of nothing."
I very rarely order from the net for bike bits, our LBS will fit things at the drop of a hat and let me return and exchange stuff without problem. There's a good community up there too. That's a price worth paying for.
A relatively large furniture chain my GF used to work at had an average mark up of 400%, crazy.
Hora, at retail it's over £800, which is what I was going for, and funnily enough they don't fly off the shelves! Even a half decent shop won't expect to sell more than one a month or so, and for a small shop that's potentially a long time to tie money up in over priced trinkets!
At the end of the day, as is always the case here, if you don't want to pay their prices, don't. No one's forcing you! I get stuff trade from my LBS, but still buy stuff from other sources as it's cheaper, if I were paying retail, I would likely always use other sources unless something was urgent, in which case you can't beat going into a shop, but you'll pay extra for it. It's not difficult, it's not price fixing, or people trying to rip you off.
rone maybe but Ive known alot of LBS's that had a cost attached to everything.
You dont pay your supplier retail for stock you pay your supplier what they cost. So its £400 stock liability. If you only sell one a month why the **** would you even carry the thing? If its obviously a slow seller when you have a full display then demand is low in your area. You lose frustrated customers when you dont hold something that they want. If you've got 8 of the ****ers in different colours and only sell one a month then you need your headchecking for stocking them.
Stock in a shop (just display alone) must be an absolute fortune though. Small bikeshop owners have got to have many heads on- I'll give them that.
I bet in a small/medium sized LBS your looking at upto £200k+ at stock holding at anyone time?
Right then Ton, the point is, the shop wasn't trying to rip you off, they were trying to sell the mech for the current rrp, so stop making false accusations please.
Oh, I'll ask you again, can you sell me a brand new aerial for my TV at less than the trade price you paid for it, or will you rip me off and sell it to me for the rrp?
Cycle shops aren't charity shops, no profit=no shop.
PLUGGER
there is no rrp on aerials.
and if you tell me how much you want to spend i will gladly do you a aerial for that price.
and i still think they were trying it on cos it was a young lad who went in to buy it.
and when i spoke to them they suddenly dropped the price by a tenner........... 😉
I dont undertand ton... they had no idea a young lad would be the next person to come and buy the mech when they priced it...
or are they supposed to make a price up for each individual as they walk in the door. That just wouldnt work.
thebikechain
why did they drop the price by a tenner when i phoned up???????????????
Nice one, Ton, I'll need to speak to a local aerial supplier first because I don't know much (anything!) about them, so I need to find out what I need. Then I'll have to speak to my landlord as they will have to pay for it.
Is your keyboard got a sticky ?
Not sure why they would do that - that would be for them to answer, perhaps they were just doing you a deal?
thebikechain
go figure???????????
i am sure there is nothing malicious in their actions. benefit of the doubt n all that,
incidentally - what headset did you put in that mmbop - got one a guy has been waiting on for a while. he is having a king but wondered what you went with.
Seems quite reasonable that they sell at rrp. And it's quite likely that they give discounts to regular customers. So if ton walks in he'll get a discount. If some kid off the street (eg ton's son) he pays the normal price.
Simples?
thebikechain
i used a cane creek double xc11 flush.
allyharp
all it takes is the tender touch of a young lady to explain........ 😉
thebikechain - Member
I dont undertand ton... they had no idea a young lad would be the next person to come and buy the mech when they priced it...or are they supposed to make a price up for each individual as they walk in the door. That just wouldnt work.
It does happen.
I'm back at uni and work in big bike shop on weekends till Jan and we have a hot woman come in on a sat where we focus on sales only but she gets-free repair while you wait etc.
Then we have the fat guy coming in 5secs after she leaves-book in for Wed for you and charge top dollar etc.
I don't do it myself honest guv, I treat everyone equally or try but I have seen it before how people treat others differently.
It all depends who deals with you and how you atc and look like.
It shoudn't happen I know but it does.
Ton asks why? because his lad wasn't a hot lady or a regular mtb'er would be the answer if he came into the LBS I work in.
It still shouldn't happen! 