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markd, i manage a trade counter selling aerials, cctv, satellite equipment.
the cold truth is pricematch or lose the sale............. 8)
Its easy to sell at £21.99 in a sale... as long as you are selling hundreds of them. for your average shop its quite a different matter.
Depends, they may actually 'need' to sell them rather than they bought them for £10 each. Plus if they really do source alot of their kit on the grey market- all the warranty returns to them would need servicing by them at their expense.
Running a website shop is very expensive and the running costs raise the more successful it becomes. i.e. problems, refunds, returns, etc etc. All this needs staff and money- far more than a bikeshop employs.
And i operate a growing and relatively successful business based on making enough money to employ staff and provide a worthwhile and high value service to customers.
If i price match i have to lose staff and devalue the shop. My preferred approach (and it was true in my old business) is to demonstrate the value in the price not just the numbers. Some people still want this. I hope to attract them when i open the door every morning and turn the lights on.
Plus i can keep people in employment offering a career, a growth in skills and a life path if desired.
Ton,
did you have to pay to have BB faced?
RRP doesnt mean the distributor/manufacturer gets 100% of that price. Its a recommended retailer price. I used to work in retail- I know how it works.
Sorry Hora, I was merely under the impression that you thought your LBS was a)lying about the price of a deore mech and b) trying to rip your lad off, which they clearly aren't/haven't, they're merely following the guided retail price.
Have you ridden your pig yet?
andylaightscat
yes and i bought a deore c/set at the same time
wors
yes mate. very nice too.
If i price match i have to lose staff and devalue the shop
But if you are asked for a price match on a current product (not a sale item) then surely you will go back to the account manager and asked why is x retailer being able to sell such an item at such a price? You challenge the ****er.
Blackhorse finance- are all bikeshops charged by black horse for this service? I was in one place that was paid a commission on a sliding scale for selling the finance to customers.
Im NOT having a go- just saying. My GF used to work as a Buyer (and still works in the industry) and is abit rude sometimes with her suppliers and tells them what price they need to give her.
On CRC- They werent always big. How did they become big?
Sorry I am NOT having a go- I beleive suppliers/distributors will always try to protect their money as well.
"why is x retailer being able to sell such an item at such a price"
because they choose to.
importers cannot force shops to sell at a certain price. Even 'recommended' prices are frowned upon now.
if shop xyz chooses to sell soemthign at a loss because they know pwople will buy a chain (or whatever with it) to make up a bit of profit then they can.
you don't shout at Sainsburys for sellign shampoo on a bogof when your local pharmacy has it full price.
wwaswas speaks sense.
"But if you are asked for a price match on a current product (not a sale item) then surely you will go back to the account manager and asked why is x retailer being able to sell such an item at such a price? You challenge the ****er"
Believe me - i love a good moan down the ear of suppliers 😉 The trouble with this is though i am not buying hundreds. i only buy 10s.
i manage a trade counter selling aerials, cctv, satellite equipment.
the cold truth is pricematch or lose the sale
if products and services are undifferentiated then that is true and even if you get the sale you may lose the customer but this does assume that price is the only thing that attracts customers
convenience, availability, knowledge, service, people all feature
in this case availability and convenience should have got a premium price
if the LBS was run by a plumber then he'd have charged the kid double the RRP if the kid had coughed "my dad needs this for a ride tomorrow"
as to the cold truth that customers expect pricematch - if there is nothing unique you offer and the customer will travel elsewhere and/or be inconvenienced waiting for deliveries and the customer knows you will price match then you will price match
if you can convince yourself that you don't need to pricematch you probably don't need to
and all the stuff about online businesses having higher costs than traditional retailers is bollox
The cheapest place in Europe for Shimano gear is Actionsports in Germany.
ACTIONSPORTS.DE I do feel sorry for the smaller shops, they just can't compete with the mail order giants that are able to order in bulk and pass the savings onto the customer.
are German forums chock full of posts about how actionsports are killing the LBS?
I think we're having to get used to the idea of paying the price that goods are actually worth.
Times are hard, material costs are rising and the LBS is entitled to earn a living. If he can't make a living he wont be there next week. Then the likes of CRC won't need to compete, prices will rise and you won't have the choice.
The LBS has to sell a fair few Deore mechs to make a living selling stuff like that in order to be there and have one for our convienience. That probably only covered the tea and milk for a day!
Now if you want to talk to an oldtimer about how expensive kit was thirty years ago then fire away. And I don't mean relatively speaking.
I've no idea, German forums are quite disturbing humourless places that are best avoided.
Interestingly I saw a similarly price Deore mech. in Halford today and I would have thought that they had significant buying power.
Question, would CRC or similar order a special Shimano spoke for the very wheel they sold me? There's certainly no Shimano spokes on their site (not having a go at CRC BTW)?
It's Wednesday I've got a broken Aero spoke and I'm competing Sunday, would (and I ask because I don't know) CRC get one for me.
I know my man did, fitted and trued ready to go for the weekend. That's worth £££££'s
The power at peoples fingertips goes to their heads, but I bet those same people nip into the shop to try the bike for size before buying online.
Just looked on CRC, that's Deore M531 which is now discontinued, replaced by M591. The CRC price is less than I would pay trade. Price for the newer version is £44.99 strangely.
[i]It's Wednesday I've got a broken Aero spoke and I'm competing Sunday, would (and I ask because I don't know) CRC get one for me.[/i]
I'd ride it as it is a spoke won't much difference and the chances of needing truing would be slim or simple enough to do yourself.
Two types of customers.
Bike savvy - internet ordering
New bike customers and 'learning' customers - shops
Emergency purchases - if your entering a race arent you supposed to be prepared and have training wheels and a backup pair anyway?
What worries me more is the big retailers who could offer lower prices but dont. They take the full retail where possible. Possibly to fund their expansion but still. Cough Cyclesurgery cough Evans.
Going back to the first bit. If you get into biking you know what you want and you know how to fit it generally. Plus you know where to eeek out your wage as much as possible.
Please dont look 'down' on the cyclist who choses the internet. He would have given ample custom to the bike shops in his time. I know I did. So I've done my 'service'. Its not to say I dont use local bike shops. I bought my current forks from less than 4miles away and my frame was bought new from a bikeshop in surrey (friend of a friend sold it to me).
slx is only 30 quid
I'll warn you now, I've had a nasty day at work and might get unreasonable.
We had a girl in the shop today (asian, they almost alwasy are). She needed a new pair of brake levers, a new inner tube and us to fit them.
She wanted it done for £20. I'm sorry, but that's impossible. Sure we can sell her the bits for that little but we need money to fit them. I spend time in the workshop, I need paying. The tools I use need paying for. The electricity needs paying. And she kept demanding it cheaper. It's unreasonable. If you don't want to pay that much for it, then you can't have it.
I'll usually do good deals for nice customers but if I did it for everyone, the shop'd make no money. That's why a lot of bike shops shut- being TOO nice. As ton well knows, I'll do good deals if I can, but I need a job.
they were trying to have one over on the young lad..........end of.
local bikeshops are dying for the very same reason.
charging too high prices for crap service.
their days are numbered, soon to be swallowed up by bigger and better internet shops.
😯
What worries me more is the big retailers who could offer lower prices but dont. They take the full retail where possible. Possibly to fund their expansion but still. Cough Cyclesurgery cough Evans.
Why is that a worry? Why should they offer lower prices? Cyclesurgery (and to a lesser extent Evans) are both city centre based businesses- or the retail outlets are anyway- and are doing just dandy at the moment. Similarly to Jessops a few years back. Though probably a lot more sustainable
CRC aren't all sweetness and light- in the 90's when they were still had a shop, I drove the length of NI to get a replacement for a trashed race wheel in a hurry, and surprise surprise, it cost a fair bit more than it would have done had I bought it from them on the internet no matter what I said to them.
they were trying to have one over on the young lad..........end of.
local bikeshops are dying for the very same reason.
charging too high prices for crap service.
I don't understand how charging retail price is having one over... or why this is poor service?
😯 should have been 😉 luke
Ton,
ooh in that case they're a bunch of robbers
ton - Memberthey were trying to have one over on the young lad..........end of.
No they weren't, as many people on this thread have pointed out. Stop being a cock.
simondbarnes - you da man
nothing like someone opinionated .... esp when they are wrong.
the shop were only charging RRP - thats reccomended retail price - not "price made up on the spot for the young lad"
never mind - next time you want the part to go ride that night - your local shop will probably be gone so you wont have to worry about them pulling one on the little guy and youll have to wait
I’d be surprised if they made a fiver on the final £40 price they charged you
Most companies would kill for a 12.5% profit margin
I always try to buy off lbs as I pop in there for a chat most weeks, get good deals, things get sorted if I need to - like realising a bushing is worn in the rear shock and calling in on the way to Wales for a weekend away and getting it fixed there and then. I don't mind paying a little extra if that's what they want for the extra service I get.
But, chatting with them over the Merlin sale prices and the stuff I wanted was cheaper than they could get it. They are OK with me buying from Merlin as they understand the way of the World. Speaking to a guy at Merlin they said they work on margins depending on where they get the stuff from.
IMO the internet has opened up choice for people. 25 years ago I had the choice of a few local bike shops and limited stock compared to todays choice. And also most people expect to pay less that rrp for everything - I certainly do. IMO what shops have to do is offer something above and beyond the basic price and this is not just bike shops but other shops on the highstreet.
1981 Cheap Campagnolo rear mech (the Rally) was £36.25 So stuff still feels cheap nowadays.
My problem with bike shops is not the price, it's the amateurish service that you generally receive. When I drop a bike off to be repaired, and I'm told that it'll be ready on a certain date, that's what I expect, and if it's not going to be ready for some reason, I expect to be rung to be told why not. I also expect that if they say they're going to order something, then that's what they're going to do, not to have to be reminded about it 3 or 4 times before they finally get round to it.
Now unless it's a really big job, I'll buy the tools and learn how to do it myself.
OK we
d like to ask who here would actually pay,£50 of there own hard earned money for a deore rear mech?
Not me.
Most companies would kill for a 12.5% profit margin
Your kidding right? So the distributors are taking the lion share?
Make a fiver on a £40 sale. I would go into something else if that was the case.
Its true though, for a good customer/shop relationship you need price AND service. You cant sell one without the other. Its impossible.
BTW- I've owned my XTR rear mech since 2001.
Welcome to the world of price rises. If you think your ever going to see deore mechs below £40 in a bike shop again, you are sorely mistaken. CRC prices reflect buying power and stock bought at a lower price. Your LBS needs to keep in mind the current cost price as they order and stock in much smaller quantities. Any LBS selling below £40 would either need to clear stock or are unaware of the price rises (this does happen).
solamanda CRC started somewhere. They probably borrowed, reinvested and took risks.
Can I just say I dont like the one-sided nature of 'support your LBS' and 'your bad if you use online retailers like CRC' bollox.
I use both and I even have TWO LBS's local to me that I use frequently but I dont agree with the mantra 'use your lbs' when some of them are bloody appalling. If you own or work in one- just visit some of your competition. See if you get served and the service you receive for a start. I know one chain that has a fantastic branch whilst its other branch is awful. I even contacted their head office and gave praise on one and added the other was dire compared.
I don't solely support my nearest bike shop, but I probably do spend more money online.
The thing is, the bike shop nearest to me sells everything from kids starter bikes to £3k road & mountain bikes with everything in between. You see people getting new inner tubes for their kids Apollo bike & people picking up brand new Orange 5's. Thye sell virtually all components, clothing, turbo trainers, energy stuff etc. etc.
I have never been the only person in there - even early on a weekday & at the weekends the place is full.
So, on the whole I think they are doing alright for themselves and although I spend most of my 'cycling' money online, I have still spent several hundred pounds with them this year alone so don't have any qualms about choosing online stuff if it saves me a heap of cash.
My last LBS purchase was 2 weeks ago from Mountain high in Pangbourne, I needed a front gear cable in a hurry (admittedly to fit the massively under-priced SLX front-mech I bought from CRC), all they had on offer was a boxed XTR gear cable for £10, now I know I can get a far cheaper cable from CRC that will do the job just as well, but that will take 24-48 hrs to arrive and I needed it then and there and in the grand scheme of things £10 for a fancy cable is better than saving £5 and not being able to ride the bloody bike for 2 days, that’s where my LBS wins, they have the small items I need without any waiting, the price increase is perfectly reasonable in my view, considering the alternative is sitting at home for the weekend congratulating myself on having saved a pitiful sum at the expense of actually riding…
Walking through Mountain high their workshop seemed as busy as ever and I overheard the Fella upstairs telling one customer that while parts sales were down, complete bike sales were up a little and more people were bringing in bikes for repair work, his theory being the credit crunch had driven people out of their cars and onto their bikes a bit more, again this is where the good LBS’ beat CRC, I can buy a cheapo SLX for £16 but I still forget to order the cable, LBS scores a small sale, this is probably the case for about 30% of CRC’s sales, they generate a smaller secondary sale or a bit of workshop work for an LBS somewhere.
As with any LBS they had various goodies on display all at or around list price, but I don’t think they seriously expected stay afloat by flogging them, a good LBS does more than sell drivetrain parts, they offer workshop services and advice and sell complete bikes, all of which I think CRC/Merlin/Wiggle struggle to match online.
As for complaining about what is actually about a 40% markup, with a profit margin somewhere in the 10% range come on, most consumer good companies are expecting in the 100-200% gross profit range after costs, the majority of retailers would expect a far bigger profit from what is a low volume high price point sale, you can bet that Shimano won’t be selling to the shop at rock bottom prices, their own running costs, but you expect a small business to put themselves out of business to secure your custom, they’d probably be better off letting you walk out the door empty handed….
Ton, you go to the wrong shops.
but then you havent been happy with the shops in Leeds for a while 😥
LBS v CRC
Ok we all would like to live by the slogan "support your local bike shop" but hey , mtbing is an expensive sport. When you local bike shop is charging these prices it a no brainer to buy from the UNLESS ITS AN EMERGENCY . They make their money these days from selling bikes and services , also selling bike stuff the the non-internet savy riders. They would sooner sell one rear mech at a 50% profit than 10 at a 5% profit , they rely on those mentioned above to keep them in business.
I have on a few occasions went to one of the LBS and had a chat while getting something done orin an emergency situation and each time had a chat to the guys about online v bike shop prices .... and even they will tell you that CRC or WIGGLE selling price is less than they pay cost.
I year back i was getting my new XT cassette fitted and the guy said "you buy it online" , i replied yes , ebay , woolyhatshop $55au , he said "thanks , i need to order a new one" .... now thats a disgrace when the bike shop employees are even buying online .
Im in Australia and we get FREE POSTAGE from CRC on any over $490 , with WIGGLE we get free postage on any order over $97 !!!!!!!!
In a bike shop here a tyre could be $80 , i can get both tyres, new grips for $80au from WIGGLE .... stick a new bottle of stans sealant on it and it is here in Australia less than 7 days later WITH NO POSTAGE .
Yes "support you local bike shop" sound good in practice , but fu%k sake ... why would you ... they are a business and they wont support you if you are getting it tight .
Sancho - Member
Ton, you go to the wrong shops.
but then you havent been happy with the shops in Leeds for a while
ED, i am always happy with you tho mate..
depending on quantity ordered a RDM591SGSL will cost the shop between £21 & £23 plus shipping from Madison. FACT
you can make your own assumptions as to how much they should add for wages / rent / etc.
grey imports are a whole other matter
I buy most of my food from Morrisons. But I buy meat from the local butcher because I want good quality and to know it's not pumped full of dextrose to incease the weight (supermarket chicken breasts).
Same with the lbs. I just bought an slx chainset for 85 from Merlin as my lbs could only do it for 120. BUT if I need advice, help, something doing quickly etc I'll always to go the lbs and pay a little more. My lbs have said if I buy a hub and spokes from them they'll show me how to rebuild my knackered front wheel.
Don't forget that riders who can build bikes from scratch, know how to true a wheel, service their own forks etc are in a tiny minority and the lbs caters to everyone else.
Some people service and maintain their own cars, buying parts online but I wouldn't have a clue. So I go to my local garage who give me good advice and do the work for me.
The main problem with the price hikes has been the speed at which they hit. I enjoy photography but don't expect to buy Canon L lenses; I enjoy walking and camping but don't expect to buy 400pound jackets and 800pound tents.
[b]BUT[/b] I'd got used to affording top-end bike kit and now that's been taken away from me I'm fairly peeved.
BUT I'd got used to affording top-end bike kit and now that's been taken away from me I'm fairly peeved.
Are you saying that because the internet has opened up expensive gear to everyone that its not so special anymore ? Or the bloody price hike has peeved us all off 🙂