Sure I read somewhere they were Wellgo cleats. Have a read back through this thread, I think njee has a set of P1’s and done some experimentation with cleats. I think the summary was that the cleats work ok in keo pedals, and that keo cleats work ok in P1, but not quite as perfectly as a proper match.

The P1 cleats work fine with Keo pedals and Keo cleats seem to work perfectly with P1’s from my experience.

Sorry me again.
What are people using to connect to an (newer) iPad.
Apple Lightning Adaptor

Wahoo ANT+ Key

The P1 cleats work fine with Keo pedals and Keo cleats seem to work perfectly with P1’s from my experience

I agree, I put the ‘Powertap’ cleats on my winter shoes, and have normal Look ones on my normal shoes, not noticed any difference. I know DCR said worn Look cleats posed a potential problem. Mine aren’t too bad so far. I can’t see me using Keos other than very occasionally now, so I’ll likely just buy the Wellgo ones when mine wear out.

What are people using to connect to an (newer) iPad.

I think the Wahoo key is the only one supported by TR.

I just replaced by PM and HR monitor with ones that supported BLE.

Vectors for Shimano pedals…

http://road.cc/content/tech-news/185198-updated-garmin-vector-power-meter-now-compatible-shimano-pedals

Interesting stuff. Wonder if they’ll end up with a basic pedal-less kit and you then just add the cartridge kit for your pedals. Would be nice.

ackie – Member
Hi all. Sorry to butt in.
I’ve been after a power meter for a while but funds have prevented me from taking the plunge.

I have recently been offered a Powertap G3 wheel set (H+ Archetypes and a DT Swiss 240 front hub) for £350 in Good condition.
It’s from a guy in my club so I know they have been looked after.

The Powertap Hubs have always appealed to me as they seem easy to use and reliable.

Is there any reason not to go for it?

My G3 is one year old and currently about to be put in a box and sent back for the 3rd time in that period of ownership as it has gone out of range again.
If it was 2nd hand I would be paying for the work
My Stages on the MTB has been replaced twice, now on a G2 unit and it seems to be working ok after a few rides out, time will tell as the other units worked fine for the first few months too before problems started.

In short. I personally wouldn’t buy a powermeter that didn’t have warranty with it.

Vectors for Shimano pedals…

http://road.cc/content/tech-news/185198-updated-garmin-vector-power-meter-now-compatible-shimano-pedals

Interesting stuff. Wonder if they’ll end up with a basic pedal-less kit and you then just add the cartridge kit for your pedals. Would be nice.

That’s a hell of an expensive wok around to get Shimano cleats to work on your Vectors. Surely you’d be far off just buying a set of Keo cleats and using them or are Shimano SPD-SL’s really that good?

hell of an expensive wok around

Probably about 160 quid for pedals and kit. Not too bad I thought if you like your Shimano pedals.

Probably about 160 quid for pedals and kit. Not too bad I thought if you like your Shimano pedals.

But compared to a set of cleats for £12 or so it seems expensive. Even if you need a couple of sets of cleats for a couple of pairs of shoes.
I’m just genuinely curious as to why you’d go to the extra expense.

I wouldn’t consider changing cleats, so if I wasn’t on Keo’s already then the Vector would be off my list. If I was a Shimano pedal man then the Vectors would be on my radar. Pushes the price up a bit but at least they’d now be a consideration.

Would be nice though if it was a move to a more generic product that supported lots of pedals.

Why not just change cleats though? Is there that much difference between the Keo and Shimano ones?

Pedals can be quite personal. Shimano feel quite different to Look IMO.

That’s what I was wondering. I’ve never quite understood why people were so hung up on particular pedals but then again I’ve only ever tried Look.

They all feel different. Ease of entry/exit, float, stack height etc. Not to mention weight, bearing and cleat life and so on. If you’re buying a set of Vector 2s it’s hardly a stretch to buy the adapter set for SPD-SLs. Clever move I say.

Vector price drop now. At least in the US. Merlin doing Vector 2 for £1000. Might be tempted to get some in the US in a couple of months – $1000 there now.

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/04/garmin-slashes-vector-pricing-adds-shimano-pedals-edge-25810varia-radar-powerpod-on-sale.html

Just ordered a rotor Rex 1.1 in power for the mountain bike.

UK RRP for Vector 2 now £899:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/product-news/prices-slashed-garmin-vector-power-meter-pedals-220116

$900 from Clever Training with the DCR discount, I’d be more tempted to do that and suck up fees!

Yeah, Wiggle with platinum discount is now £792. German shops might be cheaper soon, might not. I’m going to the US in a few months, so Clever Training might well be the best option (around £640 plus taxes where applicable). Still slightly tempted by P1s, but they’re $200 more now.

Just ordered a rotor Rex 1.1 in power for the mountain bike.

Out of interest, how are you getting on with the INPower software?

I’m finding that it’s really unreliable and difficult to get the unit to connect and I was wondering if it was just me.

Just taken delivery of a red powerpod 8) (had to be red). I’m in the US for a couple of days and couldn’t resist. Not only that, but the price comes under the customs allowance to bring it home. SO £200 for a force estimating power meter. Being a paid-up member of the geeky Physics squad, I rather like the underlying science behind this meter. And their obvious homage to Newton’s second law.

Racing Wednesday evening, but sadly, the only bracket that will fit my Giant aero handlebar profile on the Propel with a Go Pro mount is one made my Giant, and that is on my other bike 120 miles from home 🙁 . I’ve ordered a K-Edge combo too. I will be running it on our fastest TT rider’s bike to compare with his SRM because he’s a little skeptical of the CdA estimate it provides.

So back to PowerCal I guess for now.

For those that might be interested, I have used the PowerCal to perform Cheung Aerolab analysis on Golden Cheetah to estimate CdA on a closed loop circuit with multiple reps. Haterz gonna hate but you may be surprised to know that the results are not as bad as you might have expected. My CdA (0.29) is probably rubbish based on 2 hours on the TT bike yesterday wearing winter kit and a gilet, but I’ll see what it says when I switched to a skinsuit and pointy hat.

Interesting stuff TiRed. Let us know how you get on. PowerPod gets talked about on time trialling forums fairly regularly but the feedback isn’t usually that good.

Notice the proper full blown Newton does support pairing up with a direct force PM for real time CdA estimation, which sounds pretty interesting, and what would tempt me into buying one.

The pairing is done via the software for calibration. Then you can have more confidence in CdA. Real-time CdA – what’s not to like to keep that position on the TT bars?

Your fairly local, once I have it running, you are welcome to try it on that budget TT bike you’ve just built 😉 . I’m going to pair it with my Garmin speed only sensor that mounts to the hub as a fast swap between bikes. I’m back in a month too so might get a cheaper black one as well if it performs as I hope.

A bit OT but others have done similar things…. does anyone have a BB30, 170mm crank compatible road PM going spare that they want to sell? Not in to pedal based systems but Stages (I currently have a Shimano crank and adapter to BB30), Rotor or P2M would go down nicely, thank you 🙂

Not really what you’re asking for, but I have a Powertap GS built into a Pacenti SL23 rim if that’s of interest?

I am open to newer Powertaps which are hopefully less explodey than the older ones if the price stacks up with what is on offer vs new other style PM’s. Can you drop me an email to watlingdaniel [at] gmail [dot] com with condition/ use/ price/ freehub type please?

Open to other suggestions too 🙂

A few months in with the PowerTap C1 now and thought I’d do a quick update. Picked it up to replace my old PowerTap as I was changing turbo to a direct drive one. It’s seen a lot of turbo work in that time and I’m now mostly using it over BLE to Trainer Road on my iPhone.

Easy enough to install. I just picked up a cheap Tiagra 5 arm chainset and bolted it on and torqued it up. Then installed the chainset as usual.

After the first dodgy unit (low reading) the replacement seems consistent in power measurement compared to my other PMs. I did have a problem with some erratic cadence reporting which would cause big fluctuations in the power measurement. Bizarrely this seems to have been cured by adjusting the feet on my turbo to eliminate a bit of a backwards and forwards rock. This slight rocking must have somehow been messing with whatever accelerometers it uses to measure cadence.

Battery life is ok. Just put my second battery in since early Jan. Nowhere near as good as my old PowerTap which would last for months. I suspect BLE is a lot thirstier than ANT+.

The PowerTap app works ok. Though I really just use it for zero’ing and updating the firmware.

Overal happy with my purchase. Does the job. Was a very good price for a PM that measures total power (around 400 quid with some xmas discount.) And hasn’t caused me any problems (well since having the first one replaced!) It could look a bit prettier but it’s on the turbo mule so don’t really care about that.

not really what you’re asking for, but I have a Powertap GS built into a Pacenti SL23 rim if that’s of interest

Also interested – email in profile

I was just thinking about powermeters last night after a training ride.

Does the positioning of the PM affect the reading that the PM gives?
For example, would I be correct in thinking that you would get a higher reading on the same ride from a pedal based system like the Vectors than you would from a hub based set-up like a Powertap hub?
If so, how much difference would you expect between the two?

Similarly, would you expect a higher reading from single sided system like Stages than you’d get from a proper dual-sided system like the Vectors?

If so, how much difference would you expect between the two?

It’ll be a few watts, single digits, due to drivetrain losses. Within the % accuracy of a PM so you might not see any difference. Compared Vectors with a PowerTap a few months back and there was about 3W difference in favour of the PowerTap.

Similarly, would you expect a higher reading from single sided system like Stages than you’d get from a proper dual-sided system like the Vectors?

Depends on your L/R balance. If your left leg is putting out more power than the right then it’ll be higher, if right leg is putting out more than the left then it’ll be lower. Unlikely it’ll be exactly the same.

Edit… FWIW, my balance varies with effort and fatigue, so a single sided would be a bit rubbish as different levels of effort and fatigue would skew the power numbers.

Depends on your L/R balance. If your left leg is putting out more power than the right then it’ll be higher, if right leg is putting out more than the left then it’ll be lo

Good point. I never thought of it that way.

Stages vs Powertap differences

Lactate threshold – 55W or 32%

FTP – 38W or 13%

Both are significant enough to render any comparison to Friel’s table utterly useless. I suspect it’d down to left leg dominance which is interesting as 2 years ago the musculature of my right leg was visibly more than my left. 2 years of riding to power numbers has (I surmise) trained my left leg to overtake my right – it looks the same now.

Stages is still right for me – I no longer care about comparisons (they don’t win anything) and it is excellent for training and pacing and carries no weight penalty. I have one on my riding bike which can swap between triple, 1x and single speed with ease and one on my turbo.

Doesn’t really seem worthy of a new thread when the relevant audience are likely all on this thread… First Connect IQ app that could actually be interesting, prob gonna give it a go tomorrow – I’m intrigued by what it’s offering. I like the idea of medals whilst I ride!

Out of interest, how are you getting on with the INPower software?

I will tell you tomorrow when I get my ant+ receiver.

First two rides with the Powerpod. First was a Cat 3 road race yesterday, and this morning was a 75 km time trial training ride.

Negatives : does not pair with integrated Giant Ride Sense speed and cadence sensor. Need the special Garmin GoPro mount for my Giant aero handlebars. You must have a cadence sensor to get sensible numbers.

Positives : does pair with non magnet Garmin sensors now on the race bike and also paired with a magnet Garmin sensor on the TT bike. Swapping bikes is the same as swapping a GoPro. Calibration is fun to watch and takes less than five minutes. Device detects which sensors are on each of four bikes and switches automatically when paired.

It works. Power in yesterday’s race compared very well with a rider I follow in the club who has a near identical power profile. Power on the TT bike looked completely reasonable on this morning’s loop (four laps of Drift Road near Maidenhead if you know it). Power goes up when you climb, and down when descending, reacts very fast to changes in effort and position. You’ll soon start to believe the numbers

Can supply the files if anyone is interested in my weak performances! Very pleased. And if you are a serious TT geek, then you will want to couple this to your SRM and record real time CdA for analysis. The device can pair heart rate and a power meter and record direct force power to do the sums for you.

The Isaac software is old-school but powerful too.

May buy another when I go back to the US next month.

Has the Brim Brothers speedplay power meter been covered in this chat? V tempted by it as my stages has been playing up recently.

Is it actually out yet?

999

1000!

As you were.