Which power meter – Stages or Power2Max?

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  • Which power meter – Stages or Power2Max?
  • dirtyrider
    Member

    Sherwood without power meter – estimated 20m weighted power 270W
    Sherwood with a Stages – 20m weighted power 300W

    so not that far out, thats the quickest comparison i can make

    dirtyrider
    Member

    Dalby – 2:11 lap on the Krampus in the pouring rain – 20m estimated 129W – no HRM data, so i assume some of the estimate comes from that

    Dalby – 1:47 lap on Tallboy with Stages 20m 279W

    TiRed
    Member

    DanW. powercal uses an algorithm based on HR and rate of change of HR. It is rather neat and i read the patent a few times. I use it on 30 sec, but i use my stages on 10 sec averaging

    DanW
    Member

    Thanks for all the info TiRed- always interesting to learn more about this type of thing

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    Powercal doesn’t use calibration for subject. They tried but found it added no additional accuracy.

    Was just reading that over at dcrainmaker. Wonder how it would work out power then as my HR at a specific power would be very different to someone else’s HR at the same power. Am puzzled. Shall give it a go though and see how it does.

    TiRed
    Member

    I thought that too. So i tested it on a 1st cat racer in a club chaingang with his srm. It was still accurate for summary measures. It is not a power meter, but is better than it has any right to be. I have one on circulation in the club – out with a tt’ist this week, and just ordered another after my HR strap died.

    Running two head units to compare was a bigger expense!

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    Thanks TiRed, sounds like witchcraft to me! I’ll run it alongside the powertap and see how it does.

    Still no closer to deciding on a proper PM though. The Stages was edging it by being easily swappable between bikes (though complicated by running different crank lengths on different bikes – and you can swap the P2M between cranks) but I’ve now heard some mixed reviews from club members on theirs.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    Sherwood without power meter – estimated 20m weighted power 270W
    Sherwood with a Stages – 20m weighted power 300W

    so not that far out, thats the quickest comparison i can make

    That’s quite a way out! IME Strava power is utter bobbins.

    ollie51
    Member

    This is easy.

    One is pretty much futureproof to all bottom bracket standards, measures power from both legs and hasn’t had a myriad of issues when it comes to water(though this has been fixed for most, not all).

    The other one is a bit cheaper.

    Look at the iBike Newton. Accurate, easily moves from bike to bike, fits any bike. And inexpensive. http://www.ibikesports.com

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    The other one is a bit cheaper

    That’s the thing though, it’s more expensive unless you can pick one up in the US. The advantage of Stages is weight – it’s only 20g, P2M is more like 200g, unless you get the Type-S which does cost more.

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    Anyone tried the Vector pedals? My LBS tells me they have some demo ones, along with a Quaq, so may give them a try. The price is a bit off putting but the ease of switching between bikes makes them tempting. Though looks like even the Garmin team don’t seem to like them much.

    shedbrewed
    Member

    Great topic so far, I’ve seen the benefit power training brings and am wondering if it’s worth it for me or not. Will be over in Canada in sept so considering power meter purchasing then.

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    Anyone tried the Vector pedals? Do seem good despite the price.

    As for the iBike Newton, nice idea but there is an assumption that all road surfaces are equal, which is definitely not true around here. And I assume useless with the bike on the turbo.

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    New review of the iBike Newton over at road.cc. I quite like the idea, but 780 quid?! Ok, you don’t need an additional cycle computer, but most people have one already and the one you get is a bit rubbish. Shame they couldn’t just do a small box with the sensors in it that clamps to the bars and talks to a garmin/iphone, and charge about 250 quid for it.

    bob_summers
    Member

    I’m still undecided between P2M and Stages, but have just noticed powermeter24.de have 15% off the Stages FSA and SRAM versions (ie less than 600€ + shipping). I have to replace a borked crank anyway – an FSA sl-k + Stages would be odd (carbon DS, ali NDS!) but would make for a pretty light solution.

    Also spotted this (as yet unreleased) idea which measures power at the cleat http://www.brimbrothers.com/

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    Looks interesting. Speedplay only at launch though. “Comparable with other products” is delightfully vague pricetag too!

    carbonfiend
    Member

    Had to change battery today on my stages ultegra for first time absolutely no way u get 200 hours as stages state I counted my hours from garmin connect uploads bought in May done about 56 hours so slightly disappointing. This is offset though by the fact that I had a spare battery which took at best 20 secs to change over and cost virtually nish.

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    Heard they had some problem with the auto power off, may be worth a software update?

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    That is bad! Thought the PowerTap was poor!

    carbonfiend
    Member

    Yeah gonna do a firmware update, got one running on an xtr too see how that goes…will report

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    Looks like Rotor have a new lower cost version (E990) of their PM. Single sided now on the NDS like the Stages, but you do get a full crankset for the price. I’d still probably go P2M.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    I’m inclined to agree. Quarq have been playing with their prices too (basically by omitting chainrinrgs), their Riken isn’t too expensive.

    carbonfiend
    Member

    The battery in my xtr stages went yesterday about the same as ultegra 50+ hours though 24 of those was mayhem solo 🙂 updated firmware on both now see how they go. Also got a battery life indicator now as part of firmware update.

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    By the way, if anyone is considering a Stages, worth checking this out…

    I think this rules out fitting one to my TCR as it would foul the Di2 battery mounted under the chainstay.

    dirtyrider
    Member

    sub 1000km on my stock stages battery

    monkeyfudger
    Member

    That’s pretty poor, reckon I’ve got 3500 miles on the battery in my P2M and it’s still going.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    sub 1000km on my stock stages battery

    That can’t be typical, that’d be a months fairly modest use!

    bob_summers
    Member

    That’s pretty dire. Considering I’ve yet to change the battery in my HRM strap after about 3 years’ use! I’ve read of a battery bug in the FW, maybe isn’t going to sleep.

    I’ve gone for the Stages in the end. It’ll do what I want it to, and it’s the cheapest option for me, even after having to buy a compatible crank (a cheapish s/h FSA K Force) – should come in a lot lighter than the P2M too.

    Of course, I’ve just noticed Mrblobby’s graphic on the previous page 😐 so fingers crossed it’s going to fit! (Crank hasn’t arrived yet to measure up)

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    After much dithering here I’ve gone P2M. Went for the new Type S one on a Rotor 3D crankset. Not too bothered about a few extra grams as it’s going on the TT bike.

    Anyone know what delivery is like on these?

    LS
    Member

    Delivery is exactly on the day they say it will be. Germans!
    (Mine took about 10 days from order confirmation)

    DanW
    Member

    Soooo…

    I took advantage of Powermeter24’s Stages discount to pick up the SRAM X9 version for about £470 vs £600 in the UK.

    I have been umming and ahhing about this for a while but with seeing the German price and being able to get a brand new X9 driveside crank arm for silly money from a guy on ebay not 10 miles down the road I took it as a sign of divine intervention 😀

    Just waiting on a direct mount chainring and some matte black crankskins to cover up the branding and it will be good to go 😀

    PS: For any weightweenies wondering… the stock SRAM X9 cranks arms are 553g so with the direct mount ring it should be just 14g heavier than my Rotor 3D with Extralite Octaone and alu bolts (or 34g heavier with the Stages sensor). Not too shabby and the X9 arms look alright in the flesh

    tpbiker
    Member

    I bought a stages…

    Didn’t even work! I mailed stages and they asked me ‘when you calibrate it is the number shown 0?’ When I answered yes they just told me to take it back as the strain gauges were clearly borked.

    Not sure if this is another common issue or not. Customer service was spot on, but a bit shoddy that I waited for a month for delivey and it arrived broken!

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    Partly why I went P2M. Quite a few in our local club have had issues with theirs, which put me off a little.

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    Rotor LT available to pre-order at sigmasport for £799 (better price than I expected!) Same UK price as the DA Stages, and you get both crank arms, pretty good I reckon. Though is BB30 so may need a new BB to accommodate. If I was going to buy a stages I think I’d now be seriously considering this.

    Edit… reading the dcrainmaker comment on it…

    While their existing full ROTOR Power system is priced very high at $2,350, at least it was in the ballpark of other similar system (albeit the high end of that ballpark). In the case of the LT though, it’s basically double the price of the Stages Power Meter ($699). And also in the case of the ROTOR LT, there’s nothing it really offers beyond what Stages can do. In fact, one could (easily) argue it does less. For example, ROTOR doesn’t dual-transmit ANT+ and Bluetooth Smart like Stages does. Nor does it include Stages new high-speed data mode (targeted at track athletes). Nor can you install it on 3rd party cranks like Stages can be.

    I suspect his view may change somewhat if he were to consider the UK/EU price of the Stages!

    DanW
    Member

    Does anyone with Stages have some advice to get the best out of it? For example there seem to be improvements in battery life with the auto-off and so on… Should a firmware update before the first use be all that is needed to make sure everything is running as smoothly as possible? Any other tricks or tips to consider?

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    DanW, any problems you’re trying to sort out, or just general musings? Firmware upgrade if there is one available sounds like a good idea regardless. Does sound like they rushed it to market a bit and are slowly sorting out issues in the firmware. Nice that you can do it all over the Bluetooth via an app.

    Should be getting the power2max this week, which will hopefully just work!

    What’s the reason Stages can’t sell a chainset in this country, is it the distributor network (i.e. they can’t because madison have the rights to shimano, fisher SRAM and windwave FSA?).

    Could mean that the Rotor crank doesn’t suffer the same price inflation as the Stages.

    I wonder if Shimano have anything like stages up their sleave to compete with Quark/SRAM. Heck they could install them OEM on DA cranks, still be cheaper than a lot of the competition and probably kill off a lot of the PM market.

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    Shimano have filed patents so they are definitely thinking about it. Sounds similar to the Rotor one with the strain gauges embedded in the crank arms. Can’t imagine it being significantly cheaper than anything else out there though. I do wonder if pricing of new models is just aligned with competition, or whether these things are really that expensive to make and sell?

    You might be right about Stages, I just assumed they chose not to. Also assumed price inflation was more to do with being an US product imported into the UK.

    bob_summers
    Member

    Odd (or maybe somehow makes sense commercially) that Rotor flog OE cranks to P2M, and are now undercutting them with their own power meter.

    My Stages came on Saturday, “just worked” after updating the FW with the android app. I did think it was a dud, as after installing it I could pair it to the garmin but when spinning the cranks on the workstand neither cadence nor power registered. Worked fine on a test run though.
    The battery cover o ring had a healthy smear of grease on it, let’s see how we get on…

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