Yes, ive already realised I might end up voting libdem this time. Not that it’s likely to do any good in the safest Tory seat in the country.

@mike German imports are dominated by cars. Yes we could easily handle buying less new cars from Germany and Fance. Japanese make fine cars and have a bigblead in Hybrid Technology.

Great – we get to pay more for cars that aren’t as good. Ditto pretty much anything else.

Personally I am fine with trading under WTO rules and an immediate Article 50

Great – everything imported will cost more, all our exports will cost more. Sounds brilliant.

As for the Article 50 process it wouod be no surprise if the cards where stacked towards the EU. One important place where they have the weaker hand is timing, its up to us to decide.

The cards are so stacked towards the EU it doesn’t matter that we have one Joker. We can have lots of in-principle support for whatever unrealistic deal we think we’ll get when we enact A50, only for it to be reneged upon once the clock is ticking. At best, we have a pair of twos.

Where this is hugely beneficial is we could tactically trigger article 50 at the moment when the Greek / eurozone debt crises reaches the end game. I doubt we would do that as could well be terminal for the whole EU, but its an option albeit a nuclear one

As primary school teachers often say (and that seems to be a tier above the level of intellect we appear to be dealing with here): It’s your own time you’re wasting. We play the card, they take 18 months to getting round to dealing with it because they’re trying to fix a bigger mess, we have six months to negotiate.

Don’t forget that the longer we drag this on for, the more businesses will have given up hope of the UK obtaining something beneficial, and they, their money, and their jobs will be off.

Yes, ive already realised I might end up voting libdem this time. Not that it’s likely to do any good in the safest Tory seat in the country.

That is probably one of the reasons why they’ve remained so quiet throughout this whole affair: I can see people wanting a government that is as divorced from the referendum as possible.

Lib dems v whatever party farage renames ukip as? 😕 You can see labour and the tories getting serverly punished, some crazy kind of rainbow coalition is probably likely, eh?

Which comes back to the question, can they get this through parliament?

Yes, ive already realised I might end up voting libdem this time. Not that it’s likely to do any good in the safest Tory seat in the country.

If they called an election next week I’d reckon all bets were off

Breaking news-Sturgeon saying that Holyrood has power of veto over the UK leaving. Not sure why or how but given she’s been chatting to her mates in Brussels maybe there’s a rabbit in a hat somewhere.

A genius idea if she can pull it off. Westminster doesn’t have to make a difficult call and can blame the nasty scots, she doesn’t have to call a risky referendum-win win

Only if Brexit is put to vote in the House of Commons I think? Otherwise can’t see how she can?

how can they not put it through the parliaments when it was a question of parliamentary sovereignty?

Something to do with requiring Holyrood as well as Westminster to ratify the decision.

I don’t know what powers are devolved though and whether she’s right. I can see some in Westminster backing the idea though. She won’t give a shit about winding up the English voters – quite the contrary

ferrals – Member
Only if Brexit is put to vote in the House of Commons I think? Otherwise can’t see how she can?

to trigger A50 it has to go through the Commons. From what is reported it also needs the scottish parliament to agree to it.

It wouldn’t be that somebody has drawn up some very bad legislation? this is going to get messy

She won’t give a shit about winding up the English voters – quite the contrary

She’d only be winding up half of them anyway.

And as I say, BJ et al have a handy get out of jail free card.

They’d put up a token fight but then concede that’s what the law says…

brian taylors analysis just there, on ssunday politics, on it was slightly less alarmist (from a leave perspective).

So if Holyrood has a veto does this mean that the only way for E&W to leave the EU is for them to leave the UK first, leaving Scotland as the Continuity UK still in the EU as an existing member.

Result!

So if Holyrood has a veto does this mean that the only way for E&W to leave the EU is for them to leave the UK first, leaving Scotland as the Continuity UK still in the EU as an existing member.

Result!

I mentioned this option a couple times yesterday, surprised it hasn’t been mentioned in any of the Scottish media I have seen as an option to pursue.

She’d only be winding up half of them anyway.

only the half that’s thick as shit, so it’s ok.

Nicola is getting a bit carried away with the power she now perceives she has. This one came up yesterday – it seems that what she is basing this on is that the Scotland Act contains a provision incorporating EU law into Scottish law, and that devolution legislation requires the consent of the Scottish Parliament to repeal or modify it.

What she seems to be missing though is that refusing to remove that provision from the Scotland Act would not in any way prevent the UK from leaving the EU. It would mean that Scotland would still be bound by EU law if she sees some advantage in that. But as devolved legislation it wouldn’t mean that England (and Wales and NI, though they have similar provisions in their own devolution legislation) was still bound by EU law and it certainly wouldn’t mean that the UK or even Scotland was still a member of the EU with all the advantages (and disadvantages?) that brings. It certainly wouldn’t keep the grant money flowing, or the trade free.

So she’s overstepped the mark here – it’s not a power of veto in any real sense. I did look into this quite a bit myself, but I’m also relying on the opinions of real lawyers who have commented on this. Not because I don’t want her to veto Brexit – on the contrary I looked into it because it appeared it might be a cunning ruse where Westminster wouldn’t be required to ignore the referendum result to avoid invoking article 50.

It’s not a veto power, I doubt anyone is daft enough to believe that, well after last week there is mind, but still, it may not be what it’s made out to be, but that’s not really what it’s for, it’s more a statement of intent, which I guess is that people should prepare to get this tied up in the courts. It’s a card to play.

In otherwords, it’s politics. She’s not missing anything.

It’s the 2 of clubs.

The 2 of clubs can beat a pair of aces.

plus I doubt very much if they do have a legal route, the are about to wave it in the face of anyone and give them a heads about about it and reveal all the details..

Unsure if we need a General election right now, but I do feel if any of the politicians was found to be lying at any point in this Referendom then they should not be able to return to politics

The Germans are being very positive about Scotland at the moment.

igm – Member
The Germans are being very positive about Scotland at the moment.

tbh Scotland in the UK and the EU is a great position to be in. I would be happy with it. It would need to mean even less interference from westminster, and you would imagine there would be massive opportunities for jobs growth etc.

A border to the south? meh, hardly something worth caring about if the english want to put one up, batter in.

A border to the south? meh, hardly something worth caring about if the english want to put one up, batter in.

As a South Londoner I can’t figure out if you mean you want to share some pancakes with the English or that’s fighting talk.

I hate to stereotype but coming from a Scotsman I’m going to stick my neck out and say fighting talk?