First time or not, he was the Captain of the vessel and responsible for it’s safe navigation and the safety of people onboard. Sailing a 300 meter vessel less than 300 meters away from the shore, he deserves everything he gets. People died directly because of his actions.

People died directly because of his actions.

So it appears. But if this was common practice then just blaming him isn’t correct. Others may also bear some of the responsibility.

Sorry Captain has the last call on safety of the vessel. That’s the responsibility right there.

Let’s not forget he’s under house arrest not jail. Bizarre.

As ship’s Captain he has to accept full responsibility, he was on bridge at time as well. Only mitigating circumstance (barring some mechanical failure) would be the presence of an uncharted rocky outcrop. IMO

The company are claiming the ship was off course and had never been on that route before. But lloyd’s are saying it followed an almost identical path last year as part of some celebrations.

‘Almost’ was obviously the difference between hitting the rocks and not … previously the ship may have had a very lucky escape, only having missed the rocks by a few metres …

As ship’s Captain he has to accept full responsibility

End.
Except, as the Captain’s employer the company has to accept full responsibility.

It’s been a tragic set of events whichever way you look at it – it looks like 30 people will have lost their lives in an incident where weather and intervention of nature played no part.

One thing that interests me about this is that it brings up yet again the discrepancy between personal consequence for incompetency and remuneration. If this captain is found to be guilty he’ll be off to prison. We can all make monumental unintentional f*ck ups in our work but most of us don’t have the pressure of knowing ours will lead to loss of life. Yet do the jobs with a prison sentence attached when you do get it badly wrong rather than just a sacking come with the financial compensation to balance it again the other “safer” jobs? For me at least it calls into question again the incredible income attached to banking when compared to jobs such as this captains. I’m not saying he shouldn’t go to prison if found to have been grossly negligent but I just hope the pay of his peers is suitably inflated to compensate them for that risk and to attract the very best to the job.

30? Someone (yesterday) turned up at home in Germany.

I wonder how many more could there be like this whilst brave Italian divers/rescuers are looking for them.

It does all seems very odd…

Capt is in the sh!t for leaving the ship, if nothing else.

Beyond that there seems to be a lot that is at odds. Maritime charts that I have seen (UK & French) are incredibly detailed. It seems entirely unfeasible that a rocky reef close to a (small) commercial port would not be charted – and in the age of integrated, computerised GPS navigational systems / ship control systems, the ship’s position would be have been known precisely.

It would also be interesting to know whether she was holed on both sides – the boat appears to have rolled the wrong way, in respect to where the breeach is visible.

ETA – I think the security gaurd bit is something the media have latched on to and over emphasised. The BBC website were saying that he has been involved with the sea / maritime jobs all his life, have studied at a nautical institute in S Italy. You (used to) have to do a lot of ladder climbing to get your masters ticket in the merchant navy. A 1st or 2nd officer might have responsibility for security within his portfolio – bbut that would be very different from being a security gaurd / bod 🙄

Also of note he went to wave at a retired captain, why is this other pillock of a captain not saying come say hello when you’ve finished your cruise!

It would also be interesting to know whether she was holed on both sides – the boat appears to have rolled the wrong way, in respect to where the breeach is visible.

I thought that, the ship basically hit land!

I thought that, the ship basically hit land!

From what i understand it was further out to sea when it hit rocks and the captain steered it towards land to be in shallower water. It then hit land and fell over.

It then hit land and fell over.

But the side with the visible gash is exposed – she has rolled the other way onto the shoreline. That gash would have been below the water line and would have been pissing in water like we can’t even imagine. That ingress of water would make that side of the ship 1000s of tons heavier in moments – she should have rolled over to that side…

… unless, of course, there is similar damage on the keel / other bilge that we can’t see…

It would also be interesting to know whether she was holed on both sides – the boat appears to have rolled the wrong way, in respect to where the breeach is visible

A boat can take on lots of water but stay upright. When he turned the ship the water onboard flowed to the outside of the turn making the ship heel uncontrolably and eventually capsize.
It is possible that if the ship had not done a U turn and sailed in towards the coast further up the island it may not have capsized so far.

That ingress of water would make that side of the ship 1000s of tons heavier in moments – she should have rolled over to that side…

Incorrect – sharkbait has it. It has nothing to do with the source of the water but the momentum of the water within the vessel which is determined by the ships momentum and steerage. Also the direction and gradient of the land under the ship as it grounded will have had an effect on the side it rolled to.

The principle of women and children first, established after the sinking of the Birkenhead off the coast of South Africa has been ripped up by the selfish actions of the crew on this boat.

actually that principle has long since gone. The fastest way to evacuate a ship is that everyone reports to their muster station and gets on their allocated lifeboat. In the event you cant use your lifeboat for some reason there is spare liferaft capacity. It is a media perpetrated myth that women and children are evacuated first and then the men.

security guard

media misrepresentation? I heard “Head of Security” – which in the cruise line business when terrorist and pirate attack are significant perceived risks would be a fairly senior position. To understand properly how the regulations, port security and practical procedures work I’d have been surprised if the Head of Security at a cruise line wasn’t at least qualified to Officer level – which makes the rise to captain totally comprehensible.

uncharted object

Its not unheard of for detail not to be shown on charts at certain scale, certainly any electronic chart/plotter would likely declutter its screen as you zoomed out. I wouldn’t be surprised if it emerges the detail was their at the right scale/magnification but not visible on the “broad overview” and since the vessel had passed through the area before he wrongly assumed he would be fine in “zoomed out” mode.

she has rolled the other way onto the shoreline

the free water effect of liquid sloshing about in the hull is actually quite difficult to predict especially in tight turns or if you come to an abrupt stop at the shore, not to mention any attempts by the crew or the ships stabilisation system to move ballast to the other side to compensate for the tilt.

But the side with the visible gash is exposed – she has rolled the other way onto the shoreline. That gash would have been below the water line and would have been pissing in water like we can’t even imagine. That ingress of water would make that side of the ship 1000s of tons heavier in moments – she should have rolled over to that side…

… unless, of course, there is similar damage on the keel / other bilge that we can’t see…

Not necesarily.

Ok, ship going along hits rocks on port side, water rushes in BUT its below centre of gravity and depending on fore/aft bulkhead arrangements the water can flow across ship quite easily, it would tend to fill up ship equally, or at least not enough on one side to create large list.

Ship carries on way, filling up. Eventually a hard turn to port is taken (see previous map of route taken) to get close to land, all that water starts to rush to starboard side, ship starts to heel to starboard, making more water rush over, excaberating problem, until eventually tipping point reached and ship falls over onto starboard side, where it is now.

All to do with Free Surface effect.

“I fell into the lifeboat” must sound a familiar excuse to A&E nurses who hear similar things being said about Coca-Cola bottles and Hoover nozzles getting stuck in various orifices.

And did anybody else think the translation of the conversation played on BBC radio was an Adam and Joe sketch? It was only the lack of “Stephen” that made me realise it was real.

Yes – a hard turn would do the job, sure enough 😳

Women and babies have more body fat and would survive immersion in cold waters longer than a thin bloke.

The cry in any cruise ship disaster should be “fatties go last”…they should be distracted from getting on the lifeboats by free krispy kremes. If the ship is listing then the krispy Kreme dispensers should be on “up” side so the fatties rushing to get them stabilise the roll.

Have you ever been on a cruise ship, gwaelod? A 2-seater kayak would be enough to rescue the non-fatties on board.

PS if I spelt your name phonetically, would I get a ban?

That ingress of water would make that side of the ship 1000s of tons heavier in moments – she should have rolled over to that side…

This is the bit that puzzles me – I thought most modern ships were supposed to be ‘unsinkable’ due to internal compartments

This is the bit that puzzles me – I thought most modern ships were supposed to be ‘unsinkable’ due to internal compartments

Only if the bulkhead doorways are closed and even then ‘unsinkable’ is pushing it a bit.

if I spelt your name phonetically, would I get a ban?

Welsh is phoenetic…

… hence daughter’s insistence on fideo 😕

So it doesn’t sound like gaylord then?

I believe a modern passenger vessel will be designed so that rupturing any 2 water tight compartments the vessel will remain afloat. As sharkbait says that assumes that either the bulkheads were already closed or that they could be closed before there was significant ingress preventing access to the doors (many large ships may have automated doors, but that assumes that the systems work and nothing is blocking the door or bent out of place from a collision. Given the size of the damage I wouldn’t be surprised if more than 2 compartments were breached or if they couldn’t get some of the doors shut in time.

In fairness it pretty much did what it was designed to do though – it stayed afloat long enough for almost everyone to get off relatively safely.

BigJohn – Member

So it doesn’t sound like gaylord then

no..but that doesn’t mean I’m not

Ismay: But this ship can’t sink!

Thomas Andrews: She’s made of iron, sir! I assure you, she can…

© Titanic

Maybe its all the actions of his evil mullet that possessed him?

visible gash

Banned…