Swinley Investment and Mountain Bike Network

Looking at the Swinley news story on STW, I think the development of Swinley’s trails is a good idea but I can’t see how they will police it so that people only cycle where they should. There will always be somebody who will try to create a new unofficial trail within the forest.

http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/the-crown-estate-say-get-on-ones-bike-at-swinley/

PS – Wouldn’t it be good if Swinley and Back on Track made all the trails 1 direction only. 😉

For a lot of people, mountain biking = trail centre.
What’s the bridleway situation like round there ?

Reading between the lines, it looks like a long term money spinner for the crown estate while attempting to keep it all under their control. Sounds like someone’s realised they could be making a lot more money out of it than they are. Part of its charm was that it wasn’t a trail centre.

There could be some advantages, but as someone once said, the art of diplomacy is telling someone to go to hell and making them think they’ll enjoy the journey. And this sounds like a very diplomatic press release. Hoping to be proved wrong.

I guess a lot of the existing bi-directional trails will become uni-directional then.

Will be interesting to see how that works with riders joining the trails via all the different forest access points (if you bike to Swinley from the local area).

I have only ridden Swinley mid week when it was very quiet. Only passed three other riders all near deer hunter/deer stalker? But on those bi-directional trails I was very glad not to face people coming the other way. Especially the route from the corkscrew area back to lone star.

Excuse the names, I don’t really know the area.

I would I,shine this is good news. It won’t stop the cheeky trails fortunately but may make others better.. Win, win.

What’s the bridleway situation like round there ?

Crap, but we do have miles and miles of quasi-cheeky singletrack on MOD and Crown land. None of it signposted and only really accessible if you join one of the local clubs on a ride as it’s very well hidden. The Chilterns north of Reading are good for bridleways.

I blame the Romans, most of the roads are Roman, thus there’s not been a need for slower wiggly paths linking anywhere as there was already a dead straight road!

PS – Wouldn’t it be good if Swinley and Back on Track made all the trails 1 direction only.

No it’d be shit, it’d halve the number of trails! And how would you decide which was the right way on Stickler, 9 yards, Watsons Wander or Seagull? Bessides, Swinely’s the best known, but by a long way from the best riding localy.

It’ll be interesting to see how this pans out, I can’t see how they could police cheeky riding in the woods, especialy as this pretty much rules out banning cycling as an option by admitting it’s a monney spinner. I suspect the horse has already bolted on that one and trying to restrict it to perscribed routes will have minimal effect.

Better building of the exiting aroured trails is a good thing though.

I really hope they don’t signpost everything. Half the fun is getting lost and finding new bits. Some trails do need work but please lets not turn it into a trail centre…

All routes beginning at the Lookout is not much use. My route to Swinley sees me enter the park just south of the reservoir. Quite handily just by the Deerstalker etc.

It’s a very rare trip for me mind you as (mentioned above) there’s far better riding in the area and it’s actually rideable from Swinley.

PS – Have had a few almost head on Seagull moments so would happily see it go 1-way!

he sheer volume of unrestricted mountain biking is having a detrimental impact on this protected environment which has been designated a Special Protection Area by Natural England.

where is this detrimental impact ? – I have not seen any of it – anything there is pretty minimal and would grow over again pretty quickly – nothing compared to what horses do to the bridleways in that area.

The only time I’ve had a near head on on Seagull is on the last section heading south in the densely wooded bit, not a crash, there just wasn’t room to get past so one of us had to back up!

Ok so having to stop ruins your STRAVA but I’ll take that over not being able to ride it both ways. What next, signposts on bridleways? Everyone knows it’s 2-way and as long as you keep your head up there’s little chance of a crash.

where is this detrimental impact ? – I have not seen any of it – anything there is pretty minimal and would grow over again pretty quickly – nothing compared to what horses do to the bridleways in that area.

Not just direct erosion, which we’re pretty bad at as unlike walkers/horses we dont stick to 1 path, we’ll make 3 different ones and make them in every parcel of land. See the Labrynth for examle, a walker wouldn’t make that, they’d make a straight ish path through the woods. the 2nd point about building in every parcel of land means we’re potentialy disturbing anything that would want to nest there rather than leaving areas free for ground nesting birds etc.

Perhaps they intend to make the new routes so attractive to the majority of cyclists that they not going to be that bothered about the few that choose to go off and get lost on unmarked trails.

I’m just a ‘glass half full’ kinda guy today.

Everyone knows it’s 2-way and as long as you keep your head up there’s little chance of a crash.

My worry will be that given there are folks there that have ridden some trails both ways since time began, and others that will be going there for a first go now it’s a ‘trail centre’ – you’ll have folks riding it as if it’s one-way and won’t be keeping their head up looking for other traffic, and while they’ll technically be in the right, it’s no fun being right and broken.

I’d be willing to put a bet, on a rough statistic, that 90% of the riders in Swinley stick to 10% of the trails.

keeping the ‘sheeple’ on well constructed and well located trails where you want them can only be a good thing for the ‘proper’ mountainbikers of the area.

Poorly worded release, ambiguous I thought- so is it known, or just supposed, that riding will be restricted to waymarked trails and the roads,
Or is the intention to hope that the majority of users will take the easy option and follow the paths from the Lookout, a la Cannock?

There’s also the ambiguity that bikers are currently allowed to ride on the fire roads, and the trail to/from the ‘advanced mountain biking area’ and nowhere else. I never really understood how Tank traps, stickler and seagull fit in with that.

Word is they will indeed be one direction only and signposted. Essentially as I’ve heard there is the green which will be the family loop and the blue which links into the red as an extension. No black.

Freeride and DH areas will exist on top, i.e. Gulley & Clubhouse, but what form they take compared to existing is unknown.

And… anything not on the new plans is getting removed. Existing trails will run whilst they build the new ones.

P.S. Bike permit is scrapped from April. Bearing in mind this is what gives you the right of way to ride there and provided the liability insurance to convince the estate it was okay to have a free for all between bikes and walkers. After that if they say you can’t ride anywhere but the marked trails, then that’s it (noting that riding anywhere else is only trespass etc).

fyi – what I know above the press release comes from people in the know on the Swinley FB group, so it’s second/third hand from me.

I have a few loops I do as an early Sunday morning blast – a couple of hours and most of the main trails covered – start at 7am, done by 9:15 – I bet the new directionality of the routes is going to stuff this up.

And tough to decide which is the better direction for many of these routes as they average out as flat.

If you read the Swinley FB page, everything appears to be very up in the air

However, if you read the crown estate press release, everything appears to be a done deal

I’ll be disappointed if any of the major tracks become one-way, but i know the place well enough to navigate around everything

The cheeky trails will remain, local riders will still enjoy 90% of what they used to and i’m sure new trails will continue to appear

Wonder what will happen with trail maintenance ? Gorrick/BOB currently do that from a slice of the permit income. If no more permit income then where does the £££ come from…

Wonder what will happen with trail maintenance ? Gorrick/BOB currently do that from a slice of the permit income. If no more permit income then where does the £££ come from…

The other thing to consider is, if you are only allowed to ride the official trails, will Gorrick only be allowed to use these same trails for their races?

If Swinley get this wrong, I could see Tunnel Hill etc getting more popular?

If Swinley get this wrong, I could see Tunnel Hill etc getting more popular?

and the MOD confiscating loads of bikes?

I fear that Swinley will lose its charm. Trail centres are ten a penny and I really wouldn’t want that concept introduced.

It’s too well used for many sports and mountain biking could become quite unpopular with other users. Also heaven forbid Joe Public becomes aware that there is more than fire roads. Carnage!

Will extra parking be made available? Didn’t see any mention of that.

Seems a sensible decision. The forest has become so much busier in the 16 years I have ridden there and the amount of destructive trails just goes up and up. The rubbish left behind on the steep bits around the reservoir is a disgrace. Given the huge number of riders now one way trails is very sensible.

There’s other riding round there anyway.

For once i agree with CG (LOL), this will spoil the charm of Swinley, i.e being able to mix it up as you wish.

And ride it in any direction you wish.

Never had a problem with two way traffic, as all the really quick and/or technical bits only ride one way anyway.

Wow, that’s ruined my weekend! I’ve loved riding at the Lookout for years. I really don’t know what else to say.

Mixed feelings about this. I have ridden Swinley weekly for a couple of years. Great if there are new trails but the beauty of Swinley is you can ride a different route each week.

Recently showed a friend around and we did 3 different routes all over 10 miles and only really repeated Stickler.

Rode there Tuesday and there were a few new bits around corkscrew I guess for the mtb event Sunday.

Anyway the charm of Swinley is the variety of routes if you want to ride stickler several times you can without following a linear trail.

For once i agree with CG (LOL),

😆 You’re the only one on here, some guys on the HR thread are firing missiles at me. 🙄

Back on topic – there’ll never be a consensus. 🙂

I guess it’s nice to be able to amble around – I just think the state of some of the trails this year has been really detrimental to the forest. Hopefully they’ll leave labyrinth etc well alone…

cinnamon_girl – Member
Trail centres are ten a penny

In Wales and the far north, yes, but not in the south of England. There’s an aweful lot of us with work and family commitments who measure our time off in hours or even minutes rather than days. These people can only very rarely justify driving more than an hour to ride but a lot of them live within an hour of Swinley. A trail centre is like a track day is for the petrol-heads. I’ve enjoyed Rowan’s trails in Wales and I think he’d do a good job at Swinley. If usage is going to increase then one way traffic is a must.

I just think the state of some of the trails this year has been really detrimental to the forest

I think that the rain was mostly to blame, keeping the ground conditions as they were.

It is still nothing to the devastation the forestry guys have done to the Surrey Hills, or the Horsell Common preservation people have done to Horsell Common, even.

I mean more the unregulated building of DH-style tracks around the reservoir – one trail that has been in an excellent state ever since I have ridden at Swinley is now criss-crossed with huge ruts and big skids which have ripped up the soil. If we want to keep riding in the forest I think a level of compromise is needed.

Also – the level of use has increased enormously and so the unsurfaced trails like the Gorrick 10 or whatever you call the 15 foot wide slog between Swinley and Crowthorne have just become fire roads – I remember when that was a narrow ribbon of singletrack… Again – in terms of sustainable use this cannot continue.

Also – the level of use has increased enormously and so the unsurfaced trails like the Gorrick 10 or whatever you call the 15 foot wide slog between Swinley and Crowthorne have just become fire roads – I remember when that was a narrow ribbon of singletrack… Again – in terms of sustainable use this cannot continue.

true

I’d be willing to put a bet, on a rough statistic, that 90% of the riders in Swinley stick to 10% of the trails.

If Swinley get this wrong, I could see Tunnel Hill etc getting more popular?

I suspect the the former means the latter, and Cesars Camp, Frimley, Porridge Pot etc will be safe. I’ve ridden those places plenty of times on group rides yet on my own I can’t find a thing, they make Swinely seem easy to navigate! That’s unless people start navigating them by Strava.

I can see why they’re doing it, and as others have said “it’s only tresspass” so 95% of people will do the signposted loop plus maybe one or two better known diversions which will no doubt appear. Those of us living in/around the woods will keep riding the less well known bits, which might if anything get better with less erosion.

Considering how poorly the permit scheme is currently policed, I can’t see them trying to police any other changes to the rules this investment might have.

I’m curious as to where the money is going to come from to fund further maintenance and trail-building in the forest once this is tranche of work is done if not from the permit scheme.

I think I’m excited about this overall, as it could hopefully pave the way to have some sensible dialogue between actual users of the land, with the owners/managers. For far too long Gorrick have been the only voice who are far from transparent over their decisions.

Also, surely this is as good a time as any to bust out the Pareto rule, that would state 80% of riders use 20% of the trails? If we’re going to make up statistics at least do it pretending there’s a rationale behind it!

I think I’m excited about this overall, as it could hopefully pave the way to have some sensible dialogue between actual users of the land, with the owners/managers. For far too long Gorrick have been the only voice who are far from transparent over their decisions.

What’s not transparrent? Gorrick dig trails for races some of which last long enough to become part of the network, others return to nature, BOB dig trails for everyone else. My only criticism would be that you have to pay to join BOB.

Also, surely this is as good a time as any to bust out the Pareto rule, that would state 80% of riders use 20% of the trails? If we’re going to make up statistics at least do it pretending there’s a rationale behind it!

I dunno, I reckon that’s about right, you hardly ever seen anyone in Crowthorne, yet there can be a que to get onto Seagull.

I’d be more than a little interested to know where the ‘better’ stuff from Swinley actually is.

Email in profile if anyone wants to give me a little guidance.

Who has ever seen a pinemartin in Swinley ? even the trees are an artificial import. Yes the trails will be one way – yes the trails will be policed and fences go up – yes it will be much worse than now – sanitised to death just like aston court has become in Bristol.

It is pretty tricky to deal with this as it is private land – but these woods should all be open access as should much of the other woodland accross the south – it could have been if we had got our act together a few years ago – urgent need for a UK MTB dedicated body we all support who actively represent MTB interests with teeth.

W

need for a UK MTB dedicated body we all support who actively represent MTB interests with teeth.

Have you been on this forum long?

Not sure how i feel about this….I do like the freedom of cutting in via Barrossa aqnd riding anywhere, however, a lot of riders are new to this and do not have the skill to look up on the two way trails causing a lot of stop starting so maybe one way is safer??!
i agree with gee that the top of surrey hill is ruined I used to love riding it but frankly avoided it on Sunday as it looked horrendously messy and torn up, a bit of work is desperately needed there, but I’m not sure they will be interested in fixing it…

http://www.getbracknell.co.uk/news/s/2124321_new_cycle_routes_for_swinley_forest_after_damage_caused_by_mountain_bikers