STW cyclist disagrees with police shocker. Two abreast not allowed.

Hi all,

Yesterday I was road cycling with a mate two abreast (as I’d always been taught) on an Argyll road (quite a narrow twisty section) and then we got pulled over by the police (blue lights too) and the policeman told us that it was against the law to cycle two abreast on ‘these roads’ according to the highway code. I asked if he was lying to me, to which he replied that he wasn’t allowed to lie as he was a policeman. I said very well then, apologised because I wasn’t aware of this but told him that I didn’t agree, feeling it was safer for us to cycle two abreast. He then said that it was very dangerous, especially when cycling in a big bunch, it is a lot better to cycle single file. I had nothing more to say so I apologised once more, said good day and my friend and I continued. The same police car drove back the other way a few miles later and stuck his head out the window and shouted ‘nice one’ and put his thumb up when he saw us cycling single file up a hill. It was a very amicable exchange.

However, it left me confused because I’d always been taught it safest to take up as much room as a car so over taking means they have to pass you safely. I looked up the highway code and sure enough article 66 states that on narrow, busy and bendy roads single file is best. His point was that if we were two abreast and someone over takes and there’s a lorry coming the other way, the car will always pick the cyclists to plough into. If we were single file the car would be able to squeeze past us without hitting the lorry nor the cyclists. I know which I’d prefer.

Now I’m scared about cycling because I don’t want to get pulled by the rozzers again but also don’t want to have to cycle single file everywhere. I would say that all the roads here are narrow so we can’t justify two abreast.

How do you guys roll?

Chris

EDIT: sorry for the rambling. I hope a point is conveyed somewhere.

The cop is wrong. It is not illegal to ride two abreast. Should not in the highway code is advisory, must not is mandatory

If the road is not wide enough for two cars and a bike with plenty of room then ride wide out into the road (primary position) to prevent cars squeezing past and to make yourself more visible. This probably means that there is room for another bike on the inside.

Now I’m scared about cycling because I don’t want to get pulled by the rozzers again but also don’t want to have to cycle single file everywhere. I would say that all the roads here are narrow so we can’t justify two abreast.

Why be worried about something that isn’t against the law?

And if you don’t mind asking, how old are you…

Recommended reading:

[/url]

Dave

If it’s narrow/twisty and I’m out riding with others, we’ll generally double up and chat when there’s nothing about and drop into single file if we here a vehicle approaching. Easy enough.

Just because it says single file is best doesn’t make it illegal to cycle two abreast. At the end of the day a car should not overtake unless it is safe to do so, you have as much right to use the road as a car

IANAL but the highway code is not law, although many bits of it are covered by laws.

The cycling two abreast certainly isn’t law, you are legally allowed to cycle in any position in the lane as long as you are in the correct lane of teh highway.

Whether this is considered “safe” on the raods you are riding is down to opinion.

Back to supporting the Highway Code TJ? After it was BS last week? 🙂

What is the problem with riding single file? As far as I’m concerned I want to give cars as much room to overtake as I can, withoutcramping myself or other riders with me. Holding up traffic, who are waiting to overtake you, so you can ride 2 abreast is being a dick.

IHN talks sense!

Before all the desktop legal experts appear, from the Highway Code:

You should never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends

Should means it’s advised but is not a legal requirement.

EDIT – If it said must/must not it would be a legal requirement.

There may also be further implications regarding claims of contributory negligence should you be in an accident when ignoring the above HC advice, but I’m not a legal expert…

Phone police station and ask to speak to his boss. Get it sorted out, so he doesnt make the same mistake again.

I asked if he was lying to me

#351 on the list of odd things to say to a copper.

TBF I think the copper was just trying to get a point across that you are a soft target against a metal box out of control on wheels.

Although the highway code is not law it does make a lot of common sense. Single file cycling on a narrow lane IMO is a lot safer so I’d always do that. It also gives you the option to jump sideways into a bush if required as opposed to sideways into your mate!

OOPS!

bobbyg81 – Member

Now you may laugh but try George jeans from Asdas! I bough a pair for gardening and they were so comfy I bought a few others for wearing out and about. Quality is as good as anything from Next or River Island and they were only £8!

thread choice fail 🙂

#351 on the list of odd things to say to a copper.

😆

Single file is much safer and crucially more considerate to other road users as it makes overtaking you easier.

Unless it’s a quiet road – ride single file. If it’s a busy road and you’re not riding single file then you’re not really being considerate to other road users.

Should’ve told the copper that if he’s going to pull you over to tell you about an advisory term in the highway code he should come out for a ride and pull every motorist who doesn’t follow the advisory terms of HC.

Maybe he was just bored?

Dunno, I just think if I called the police every time some car doesn’t give me my regulation 3 feet (or 1m) of room when overtaking I’d never get to work.

bobbyg81 – Member

Now you may laugh but try George jeans from Asdas! I bough a pair for gardening and they were so comfy I bought a few others for wearing out and about. Quality is as good as anything from Next or River Island and they were only £8!

#352 on the list of odd things to say to a copper.

drookit, I’m not sure what will kill you first, your encouragement of dodgy overtaking, or the wrath of the STW IAM clan.

bobbyg81 – Member

Now you may laugh but try George jeans from Asdas! I bough a pair for gardening and they were so comfy I bought a few others for wearing out and about. Quality is as good as anything from Next or River Island and they were only £8!

#352 on the list of odd things to say to a copper.

I once got off with peeing up a close for dispensing this wisdom to the Filth! 🙂

drookit, I’m not sure what will kill you first, your encouragement of dodgy overtaking, or the wrath of the STW IAM clan.

When did I encourage “dodgy overtaking”?! Bikes are slow and need to be passed. If they’re riding double file it’s a pain.

Cyclists (and motorists) need to drop this “us and them” attitude and be more considerate.

Also, what’s the “STW IAM” clan? Sorry I don’t talk STW…

OK, my money’s on the wrath of the STW IAM posse now 😛

Idiot cyclists who show no consideration for other road users just give us all a bad name.

Single file is much safer and crucially more considerate to other road users as it makes overtaking you easier.

Unless it’s a quiet road – ride single file. If it’s a busy road and you’re not riding single file then you’re not really being considerate to other road users.

A motorist’s ‘need’ to overtake doesn’t trump your safety- they don’t have priority.

All things being equal you are of course right, cyclists shouldn’t go out of their way to hold up drivers or anybody else. But all things are rarely equal because given the opportunity far too many drivers will overtake at almost any cost or risk, so when it’s better that they don’t they’ll just have to wait.

he wasn’t allowed to lie as he was a policeman

Made my day…

Back to the original post.. I’d be pretty pissed off too if you were riding two abreast on a narrow road holding all the traffic up.

Why couldn’t you simply go single file if you were obviously causing an obstruction?

Bit of common courtesy wouldn’t go amiss by the sound of it.

OK that’s 2 now.

so when it’s better that they don’t they’ll just have to wait.

…… or turn out to be the type that get angry and frustrated and force their way past

You can at least die knowing you were right

When did I encourage “dodgy overtaking”?!

by giving motorists the option to “just squeeze past”

Bikes are slow and need to be passed.

so are tractors, roadsweepers and big ass cranes. i seriously dont recommend squeezing past any of these vehicles, so why would you think its acceptable for cars to do that to a cyclist?

If they’re riding double file it’s a pain.

tough. all overtakes should be safe, legal and necessary whether you are overtaking a ferrari, a crane or a bike.

Hi

We ride 2 abreast when it’s quiet (and if a car comes up behind us on a road we single out). Single file most of the rest of the time. That’s in the cycle unfriendly SE of England. We consider this the most considerate to drivers (and you get less hassle this way).

It’s not illegal to ride 2-abreast otherwise road racing would be illegal!

Depends whose opinion you value the most:
Professional law enforcement officers quoting road safety publication Vs embittered old unemployed bloke on the internet 😆

OK, my money’s on the wrath of the STW IAM posse now

+1

This thread demonstrates to me again why a reputation based system such as StackExchange is better. Yes, I am aware that I may not have been able to post that.

Also, what is this “cyclist” or “motorist”?

I am not defined by my mode of transport. It’s all just “people” trying to get somewhere.

And if you don’t mind asking, how old are you…

I’m 23.

Maybe he was just bored?

It was a Sunday morning and the roads south of Oban are mostly not busy.

Unless it’s a quiet road – ride single file. If it’s a busy road and you’re not riding single file then you’re not really being considerate to other road users.

What is a road? The road we were on had 2 lanes and there isn’t enough room for 2 cars and 1 bike to be side by side comfortably/safely. Is it holding up traffic therefore by riding two abreast in this instance? Riding two abreast isn’t holding up the traffic since it still wouldn’t have been safe to overtake if we were single file, right?

Back to the original post.. I’d be pretty pissed off too if you were riding two abreast on a narrow road holding all the traffic up.

On a very narrow road I’d never ride two abreast with a car behind.

What is a narrow road?

Two abreast is inconsiderate and bloody annoying.

jcromton (and everyone who has an opinion) – could a driver have safely overtaken 2-abreast, when there’s no oncoming traffic?

otherwise road racing would be illegal!

It is illegal.

EDIT – oh, sorry, no it’s not, but there are certain laws concerning it. Carry on.

This thread demonstrates why people are hesitant to discuss things on STW. Well done guys and girls!

why enhft?

if you a riding single file in the correct position (i,e, not gutter jumping) and car drivers are leaving the correct gap for the overtake e.g. a car door width, then they have to be on the opposite side of the carriageway anyway. riding two abreast is no different, its just eliminates the option of drivers having a look up the outside and squeezing by using the safety margins as overtaking space.

i just dont get this attitude that we need to be out of the way as we’re a nuisance on the road.

Interesting concept Nick, though it seems it’s just turning into another flaming forum:

Criticism

In April, 2009 Stack Exchange implemented a policy of “timed suspension”,[41] in order to curtail users whose actions are deemed to be detrimental to the community. Criticism of this new feature has focused on the broad nature of such definitions.[citation needed] Critics[who?] also point to the authoritarian tone and punitive nature set by the new policy and the arbitrary judgement it allows. Users who are deemed problematic may be suspended for a period of time based on a moderator’s judgement. The suspension is accompanied by a temporary removal of the user’s reputation score and an announcement on the user’s profile page informing the community of the suspension and general reason.