So what do you think would improve safety for cyclists?

There’s obviously a lot of talk at the moment after the tragic death of a cyclist in London yesterday, and Wiggins comments about helmets. Don’t really want to go into that debate, but to find out more about what you all think would improve safety for cyclists? This wouldn’t just help save lives and prevent injuries, but importantly increase participation. The main barrier to participation in cycling is a perceived lack of safety due to vehicles on the road.

Personally, I don’t think there’s a single solution, but a combination of the following (in order of relative importance):

1. Increase driver knowledge about driving safely around cyclists – make it part of the test, and ensure that drivers are aware of the implications of driving too close, overtaking in the wrong places, etc etc
2. Change driver’s attitudes – the ‘cyclist hating’ attitude has to change, it’s appalling. Along with the attitudes around ‘don’t pay car tax’, ‘shouldn’t be on the road’, ‘slowing me down’, etc
3. Improving cyclists knowledge of how to cycle safely – especially new cyclists. Most common issues include riding in the gutter, not making clear hand signals, lack of awareness of the traffic around them etc
4. Introduction of new infrastructure for cycling where necessary – ie segregated routes at dangerous junctions, alongside dual carriage ways. But remember to give cyclists priority at junctions (it’s easier to stop and start in a car than it is on a bike!)
5. Increased use of high viz kit (on bike or person) especially at dawn / dusk / night
6. The somewhat controversial helmet! If nothing else, helps to protect against minor injuries.

I’m somewhat concerned that the current focus is on what I would consider to be the ‘lower’ 3 priorities on my list, rather than the ‘top’ 3 of driver knowledge and attitude, and cyclist’s skills.

What would be your priority actions to improve safety for cyclists in the UK? And do you think anything is being done to address them?

A proper driving test.

Significant measures to make a wholesale shift to cycling viable, showers at work, secure parking.
Once, let’s say 30%, a large proportion of cars come off the road we can free up more space for bikes. If there are less cars, I would expect the pressures and stress to reduce making driving more pleasurable.
Cyclists win.
Drivers win.
Employers win.
Health service wins.
McDonalds lose (as everyone will have to change to healthier diets) 😀
Make cycling more attractive.

a fresh start from everyone.

a fresh start from everyone.

possibly one of the truest things ever spoken. From irritated self-righteous motorists right through to irritated self-righteous cyclists…

sadly, almost certainly impossible.

Seems people realy like legislation, so make it illegal to slide down the left hand side of any long vehicle, in the absence of a cycle lane, within 50yrds of a junction. Also make it a really serious offence to turn left through a cyclelane without signalling (pet hate from my commuting in Leeds days).

Oh where to start!

Fistly, it’s a catch 22 situation. More people cycling on the road would improve safety but a lot of folk won’t cycle on the road because they think it’s not safe.

Also the blame has to be shared between motorists and cyclists. Yes, some motorists’ driving is pretty bad around cyclists but the amount of cyclists that display a lack of any sort of road awareness is shocking. Training for both parties would help but I can’t help but think a lot of cyclists, particularly younger ones, seem to have this idea it’s just not cool to give clear signals.

Another major contributing factor IMO is badly thought out cycling lanes. There’s a couple just round the corner from me that if ridden as suggested put you in the most dangerous riding position for that stretch of road.

no matter what we think, as a cyclist who commutes or rides on a regular basis, we will always be a minority.
the average british person is
A. very lazy
B. very stubborn

a man who goes to work 40 hours a week and pays his hard earned cash on his prized possession, which is usualy a car, will not leave it parked up and cycle to work.
it is his right to use that car no matter of cost or consequence.

A change in attitude towards cyclist is what’s needed, maybe the Olympics might help in a small way.

On the other side of the coin, cyclist too need to take responsibility to for their actions, maybe a meeting in the middle will see a general improvement for us all for bike awareness.

1. Fewer cars on the road through a combination of increased taxation, legislation that limits the number of cars per household, increased tax credits for people who live within say 5 miles of their workplace and so on and so forth.
2. More public transport owned by public bodies that reflect the needs of the district they serve.
3. Designated car free zones in the centre of every city with congestion charging as a bare minimum for every city.
4. A massive investment into the rail network to move the balance of haulage off the roads.

if all this takes place (yeah, likely!) more people will ride bikes and less people will get squashed, regardless of what they wear on their heads.

it is his right to use that car no matter of cost or consequence.

wrong, no one has he ‘right’ to drive a car.

• A media campaign to highlight and unwind some of the biggest myths: “road tax”, primary road position, safe overtaking, riding two abreast, gutter cycling, ASLs, parking on cycle lanes etc

• Massive investment in proper cycling infrastructure – including plenty of segregated paths/lanes and more mandatory (i.e. no cars & no parking) cycle lanes. We hardly spend anything on cycling provision in the UK and what we do get is pathetic strips of unenforceable paint.

• More emphasis on cycling in the driving test. Ideally able-bodied drivers should be required to cycle at least one day.

• Return to teaching BikeAbility in schools as part of the national curriculum.

• secure public bike parking. All new buildings and all public car parks required by planning law to provide adequate secure bike parking.

yossarian

my comment was meant to be very very tongue in cheek……. 🙄

oh bollocks, so it is. sorry ton 🙂

showers at work

IMHO this implies hot sweaty sport and cyclist tear arsing about. We need more pootlers who ride city bikes and arrive at their destination not dripping in sweat and smelly.

and to get more pootlers out on bikes we need a pleasent cycling environment. ie infrastructure and attitudes (on all sides)

So banning lycra on any journey less than 5 miles might work 😉

make it illegal to slide down the left hand side of any long vehicle, in the absence of a cycle lane, within 50yrds of a junction.

Sadly most cycle lanes actively encourage cyclists to go up the left of vehicles to make it to the ASL.

I would probally ban 90% of the Headcam heros,

Yes some of them are genuine cyclists who are honest and good riders but the other 90% are car hating activists.

The amount of video’s i’ve seen on youtube where an accident could have been avoided but the cyclist is cocky or makes no effort to avoid the situation is amazing. These people are causing us as much problems as most drivers.

Expand the driving test to include a cycling section. Doesn’t have to be tested but make one of the requirements that drivers spend a few hours on the road with a cycling instructor learning good cyclecraft.

Couple this with an advertising campaign to let non-cyclists know why we do what we do ie. why we don’t hug the gutter all the time.

Another advertising campaign to show good cyclecraft.

don simon – Member

Significant measures to make a wholesale shift to cycling viable, showers at work, secure parking.
Once, let’s say 30%, a large proportion of cars come off the road we can free up more space for bikes. If there are less cars, I would expect the pressures and stress to reduce making driving more pleasurable.
Cyclists win.
Drivers win.
Employers win.
Health service wins.
McDonalds lose (as everyone will have to change to healthier diets)
Make cycling more attractive.

+1

This won’t making cycling any safer as motorised vehicle is always going to have more energy for than the cyclist can absord. Only segrated cycle lanes will make cycling safer and that won’t happen for a long time. We already have roads in worse state than some 3rd world countries so I have no idea were we would find the money to pay for these. I know cyclist would pay for them and nor would motorists through increased taxation.

Singlespeed_Shep – Member
a fresh start from everyone.

+1
The only solution comes from all sides

Graham S – Bikeability in schools is a good start (I teach bikeability for a living so will always think it’s a good idea). I’m always shocked though at the amount of kids I pass at level 2 who then don’t get to put it into practice because their parents just won’t allow them to cycle on road. More often than not it’s because the parents don’t cycle themselves, I’d like to see more family based bikeability courses introduced.

As Singlespeed Shep said up there ^^^ what’s needed is a fresh start from everyone. That maybe unworkable but a sea change in those that cycle for transport is achievable. Some sort of campaign to get people off the pavements and onto the road would be a good start.

a fresh start from everyone

This.

Times Cyclesafe campaign[/url]

Manifesto is pretty much there. Discussions since are finessing.

LCC Go Dutch

This discussion has kind of been done.

McDonalds lose (as everyone will have to change to healthier diets)

one of the biggest benefits of doing sport all the time is you can eat calorific shit without it being an issue, surely? 🙂

(not that McD’s would be my food of choice, regardless though)

We already have roads in worse state than some 3rd world countries so I have no idea were we would find the money to pay for these.

Over 200,000 people a year are injured on the roads.

Money spent on reducing that figure is an investment.
One that repays itself with reduced bills for health care and benefits.

Segregation of cars and bikes.

Needs money and political will, but to me is the only long term solution. And by segregation, I do not mean some paint on a road to show where you will be when you get hit. I mean actual separate infrastructure.

I live near Milton Keynes, which has a proper separate cycling network. It’s genius. Friends who live there can let their teenage kids go anywhere by bike without having to worry about them being safe on the roads. To me all the other things are great (educating drivers and cyclists etc.) but putting people on bikes in the same space as a ton of metal travelling at 60mph is never going to be safe no matter how much we try to educate. It’s one of reasons I ride an MTB most of the time – I don’t trust roads.

Give sustrans a f***load of money.

Every town center main road to get cycle lanes on both sides (there a few near me where your expected to ride on the pavement (and therefore give way at every junction, every 20m or so, and spend 50% of the time going the ‘wrong’ way).

Out of town every A-road linking poulated areas (i.e where between villages upto say 4 miles appart) should have cycle lanes on uphill sections where cyclists are most likely to be feeling vunerable and/or holding cars up. Unless there’s a viable cycle route (i.e. b-roads or an old railway) in which case more blue signs to divert cyclists via quieter roads.*

Roads without a central white line so small B and C class roads) to get a default 30mph limit (easy to instigate, it’s just the same as knowing the difference between DC and SC is 70 and 60, well if there’s no dividing line the limit’s 30).

Whilst bringin in the new rules make it clear they are for cyclists safety, and if death rate’s don’t improve they’ll get more draconian (i.e. give ‘drivers’ and incentive not to squish cyclists)!

*theres a section on my commute which links one big (DC in places) A-road with another and goes to a steelworks. It’s a mile of uphill and 50% of journeys involve at least one steel truck overtaking way too close on the climbs. As a result I’ve taken to doing a 3 mile diversion with a load more climbing just to avoid it! That’s the kind of road that really needs a crawler lane for cyclists and doing so only on the climbs would mean we’d get twice as much done as trying to do it everywhere.

make it illegal to slide down the left hand side of any long vehicle, in the absence of a cycle lane, within 50yrds of a junction.

Sadly most cycle lanes actively encourage cyclists to go up the left of vehicles to make it to the ASL.

[/quote]

in the absense of a cycle lane… in my experience there aren’t ususally cycle lanes leading to ASLs, they put an ASL in, but no way to get to it. 😐 (maybe places other than leeds are a bit better at this). I suppose you’d add a bit that would make you stop until long vehicles have pulled away if you’re in a cycle lane with left turning traffic or… see this is why I hate legislation.

New Law: Drive sensibly, Ride Sensibly. Or Else.

The End.

edit: i thought you could do nested quotes here…

The main barrier to participation in cycling is a perceived lack of safety due to vehicles on the road.

Is it? I only know one person who doesn’t ride on the road ‘because its dangerous’, but even she rides MTBs.

Essentially everyone I know who doesn’t ride a bike for recreation / exercise / fun / transport, is just too lazy or rightly-or-wrongly perceives the biggest barrier to participation as fitness. I’d guess the next step up the ‘excuse list’ would be the weather, followed by practicality/time issues.

I don’t think education of drivers would be all that effective. The main thing which will change a driver’s attitude is if they get on a bike themselves. Almost everything else follows from that. How did the Dutch do it?

I also think only designated cycle lanes would make an appreciable difference.
You will never educate some motorists to be more aware and many of the reckless, impatient drivers are selfish types who just don’t care about other people and the rights and wrongs of their actions as long as they can make up a precious couple of seconds.
Sorry, but that’s the truth of it.

The Dutch did it like this

Unfortunately I think there are going to be a lot more accidents from more people riding bikes before anyone really thinks about building proper cycle infrastructure in this country.

Essentially everyone I know who doesn’t ride a bike for recreation / exercise / fun / transport, is just too lazy or rightly-or-wrongly perceives the biggest barrier to participation as fitness. I’d guess the next step up the ‘excuse list’ would be the weather, followed by practicality/time issues.

Everyone I know who doesn’t cycle (but probably should) cites the danger as their main reason. Ironicaly I’d day say they were the worst drivers, especialy my missus who ironicaly thinks I’m a bad driver for not reacting to things she sees as a danger but I’ve spotted way in advance and already decided on speed/posiotion/timing so don’t have to slam on the brakes, crash through the gears and finaly pass wayyyyyy to close, every time I approach a cyclist.

in my experience there aren’t ususally cycle lanes leading to ASLs, they put an ASL in, but no way to get to it.

If you have to cross a solid white line at an ASL then it is not to spec and is technically encouraging you to break the law.

They should, by design, have a little cycle lane leading to them that doesn’t cross the first white line. Sadly that usually goes up the left hand side.

Essentially everyone I know who doesn’t ride a bike for recreation / exercise / fun / transport, is just too lazy or rightly-or-wrongly perceives the biggest barrier to participation as fitness.

Attitude is a big factor. This makes sad reading:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/jun/03/britons-unmoved-cycling-campaigns

no matter what we think, as a cyclist who commutes or rides on a regular basis, we will always be a minority.
the average british person is
A. very lazy
B. very stubborn

a man who goes to work 40 hours a week and pays his hard earned cash on his prized possession, which is usualy a car, will not leave it parked up and cycle to work.
it is his right to use that car no matter of cost or consequence. Ton you say that is tongue in cheek but I personally think that the last paragraph is the way a lot of people think and also think if you ride a bike that you are a second class citizen that cannot afford a car (they probably could not get their head round that you have a good car on your drive doing nowt whilst you are cycling to work)

impatient cyclists[/u] are selfish types who just don’t care about other people and the rights and wrongs of their actions as long as they can make up a precious couple of seconds.
Sorry, but that’s the truth of it.

Same goes on both sides. A truce needs to be called, and both sides need to grow up.

a lot of people think and also think if you ride a bike that you are a second class citizen that cannot afford a car

Sadly true. Enlightening reading the Grauniad Bike Blog the other day talking about the 80 folk over here for the Olympics as guests of the Dutch firm Pon, an automotive company. They brought their bikes and are cycling round the Olympic events, including the senior executive staff.

From the article: “Van der Valk assures me that it is completely normal for a senior Dutch executive to cycle around town, though it is difficult to imagine British board-level executives – let alone automotive chiefs – doing the same.”

— http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2012/aug/01/bike-blog-dutch-olympics-games

Perhaps controversially, maybe more education for cyclists instead of automatically blaming drivers?

From an eye witness account of what happened last night:

As I was cycling home from work tonight a guy, maybe in his late 20’s, was cycling level with me and as we approached a bus he went inside while I held back. The lights changed as he was in the buses blind spot and as he was attempting to go straight the bus turned left…

You can put all the blind spot mirrors and proximity alarms you like on buses and HGV’s… but we as a cycling community also have to play our part!

Everyone I know who doesn’t cycle (but probably should) cites the danger as their main reason.

do you believe them? e.g. can you call their bluff by suggesting an sustrans traffic free / tow path type route? or some gentle MTBing… …I suspect its an easy excuse not the true reason.

Good, interesting range of responses. Certainly shows that there isn’t a simple answer to this issue, but it does need to be addressed. Apart from the fatal accident statistics, the majority of cylists I know who ride on the road regularly have had at least one ‘close encounter’ and / or accident due to dangerous driving (and yes, in my mind that includes SMIDSY!) Equally, when I’ve been out riding with some of my friends who rare cycle on the road, I have been shocked by how they ride – in the gutter or wobbling across the road, unaware of the traffic around them etc.

Re the perception of safety as a barrier to cycling participation – this is not based on heresay, but one of the few population-level quantative surveys that have asked this question. Out of 19 different outdoor activities, cycling was the only one where ‘safety’ was a significant barrier (for the other activities, the main barriers were one’s that are often related to ‘lack of time’ / ‘bad weather’ etc). So it certainly is a factor which deters greater participation in cylcing. Maybe a Catch 22 – if safety is only improved by more cycling, but more pople won’t cycle becuase they don’t feel safe … where do we go from there?

impatient cyclists are selfish types who just don’t care about other people and the rights and wrongs of their actions as long as they can make up a precious couple of seconds.
Sorry, but that’s the truth of it.

Same goes on both sides. A truce needs to be called, and both sides need to grow up.

Yeah, I agree. I see cyclists on a daily basis doing things that will antagonise motorists, pedestrians and put themselves in danger. My comment was aimed at bad drivers, because they are usually more of a danger to a responsible cyclist than the cyclist himslef.