iS tied to Europe and free from Tory “austerity” and right wing dogma.

Austerity / Financial Prudence is alive and well in Europe and is legally embedded in membership of the euro (hence Greeks lying about debt levels for donkey’s years)

Of course being in the EU would mean iS could not pursue an agenda different form the Tories…silly me

Thanks for the clarification there, most helpful

No there is never consultation for changes to the benefit system, after all they are all too busy in the workhouses

I also notice it’s all voluntary work by the 2000 not even minimum wage, signals the value placed on it, just more virtue signaling for the masses

Feel free to post a link to any similar consultations in England and Wales.

Even if it is virtue signaling, is that really such a bad thing? No party in England and Wales is trying to paint people on benefits as anything other than a drain on the system. Show me an example of politicians saying that people on benefits are equally important members of society.

I see project fear is back, they could have waited till Nicky has announced a date at least.

I see project fear is back

Where? Only from the SNP.

Everyone else will stick to the line that the matter is settled “for a generation” to do otherwise just creates another distraction whilst a Brexit deal is sorted. The SNP as usual want to be a PITA to rUK as another strand in their strategy

No party in England and Wales is trying to paint people on benefits as anything other than a drain on the system. Show me an example of politicians saying that people on benefits are equally important members of society.

As I see it all the main parties want to see those who can work actually to do so, the differences are in the policies and initiatives to achieve that.

As for quotes ICBA if you want to take that as confirmation of your views then fill your boots

Actually what the SNP want to do is prevent scotland suffering the disaster that is leaving the EU – and will use any and every tool in their armoury to do so in line with their democratic mandate

Feel free to post a link to any similar consultations in England and Wales.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications?departments%5B%5D=department-for-work-pensions&publication_filter_option=consultations

See, zero, none, Nada,

Actually what the SNP want to do is prevent scotland suffering the disaster that is leaving the EU – and will use any and every tool in their armoury to do so in line with their democratic mandate

Every tool seems to include silencing critical journalists, they seem to be using some of Putin’s tools

Really? Do you read the scottish press?

Everyone else will stick to the line that the matter is settled “for a generation”

I bet they manage to quote him accurately and its th eone opinion 0 and he clearly stated it was just his opinion, where the anti SNP mob maintain AS as an authority on all things. Oh the cherry picking irony. He was a BS except for that line eh.
Furthermore one has to be spectacularly one sided to not think that exiting the EU when scotland voted stay, has not dramatically changed the political landscape to at least the point where the debate is legitimate

The SNP as usual want to be a PITA to rUK as another strand in their strategy

Pretty sure they want the best deal for scotland which they will always think is independence

They may be able to persuade enough of their brethren that an iS in the EU is a better bet than one out and tied to the rUK

Either way its a legitimate debating point

Many would argue the EU vote is not done and i would not be surprised to see another vote on the deal we get

Perhaps that will be what parliament does to be sovereign ? Demand another legally binding vite on the outcome?

They may be able to persuade enough of their brethren that an iS in the EU is a better bet than one out and tied to the rUK

That’s a false argument though, on the part of the SNP. All evidence so far suggests that iScotland wouldn’t get in to the EU. They may as well try to persuade their brethren that an iS on the moon is a better bet than one tied to the rUK. It might be, but it ain’t quite that easy.

What is your evidence? Genuine Q to be clear no agenda/implication.

The UK is leaving iS can take over its membership my understanding but happy to see what the latest information is

I would also imagine the EU would love to make the UK pay the price of braking bth unions to leave so I imagine they may be somewhat keen to have this nuclear option on the table

Take up seems to have died off

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/132687

The map is interesting viewing

The latest twitter outrage on the BBC image of a SNP politician sayes it all

Add Stv in as well http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14692107.Journalist__gagged__by_broadcaster_after_pressure_from_SNP/

The UK is leaving iS can take over its membership my understanding but happy to see what the latest information is

Do you have legal advice on that

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DDsMI2rF0y_Q&ved=0ahUKEwiPovvK_4LQAhUhD8AKHV-pC44QtwIILTAA&usg=AFQjCNGqDMK1xig5lAqsdukrqX7xFbuzVQ&sig2=-5oPGclRbAnLLrXJD4Uwdg

All the noise from the EU is scotland would be welcomed with open arms. Even Spain has dropped its objection as it would set no precedent for Catalonia.

We do not have a definitive answer as the power to ask is reserved for westminster and funnily they won’t ask.

I bet they manage to quote him accurately and its th eone opinion 0 and he clearly stated it was just his opinion, where the anti SNP mob maintain AS as an authority on all things

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2013/11/9348/downloads#res439021

557. If Scotland votes No, will there be another referendum on independence at a later date?
The Edinburgh Agreement states that a referendum must be held by the end of 2014. There is no arrangement in place for another referendum on independence.
It is the view of the current Scottish Government that a referendum is a once-in-a-generation opportunity. This means that only a majority vote for Yes in 2014 would give certainty that Scotland will be independent.

😳

Yup BnD, Scotland leaves and Isis lone wolves will kill you all.

In all fairness a decision to leave the EU is a bit of a game changer, but Zulu11 knows that.

As for quotes ICBA if you want to take that as confirmation of your views then fill your boots

Is that a sniffy way of saying you agree with me?

BnD – it is important to follow the advice to read the Scottish press. Lets start with today’s Scotsman and a main story highlighting the fact that the SNP has failed to introduce a single piece of legislation since winning the election and the fact Audit Scotland delivered another damning report revealing only 1/8 performance targets being met. With income inequality also rising in Scotland last year, you would think that the SNP would be prioritising getting things done. instead they are blowing up the Brexit smokescreen – good old diversionary targets.

You would think that those who claim to be working in the interest of the people – especially the non economic ones 😉 – would know where to focus their time and effort. Instead we get…….

In all fairness a decision to leave the EU is a bit of a game changer,

How is it a game changer?

In these circumstances, people in Scotland would almost certainly vote to stay in the EU – but the result for the UK as a whole is much more doubtful. A Yougov poll last week found that in Scotland, voters support staying in the EU by 2 to 1; elsewhere in the UK, there is almost a 50-50 split. And so because Scotland makes up just over 8% of the UK population, it is conceivable that unless we choose to change our circumstances this September, we could be dragged out of the European Union against our will. Therefore the real risk to Scotland’s place in the EU is not the independence referendum in September. It’s the in-out referendum of 2017. That decision on Europe isn’t the primary reason for seeking independence – the main reason for seeking independence is a desire to gain the powers any normal nation has; the powers we need to build a fairer and more prosperous country.

28th April 2014 Salmond speech in Bruges, transcript here:
https://www.coleurope.eu/system/files_force/speech-files/first_minister_speech_-_20140428_-_bruges_speech_final.pdf?download=1

So what’s changed since then? The ‘game’ as you put it seems to be entirely unchanged. The prediction made by the first minister came true, yet despite having predicted this, his line, the published line of the Scottish Government, remained that it was a once in a generation vote.

(Ps. Don’t you just hate it when actual documentary evidence undermines the SNP revisionist rhetoric 😆 )

NInfan – how disingenuous of you. Of course it has changed and changed hugely

We were told the only way to stay in the EU was to stay in the UK

You equate Salmonds opinion with SNP policy

good old diversionary targets.

So panem et circenses then?

All the noise from the EU is scotland would be welcomed with open arms. Even Spain has dropped its objection as it would set no precedent for Catalonia.

What noise from what governments on official meetings

Unless official is an unminuted meeting with a junior minister in a nice restaurant

Bread and circuses indeed and linking spuriously from this, I see that the price of shortbread is going to rise because of Brexit. Phew, having read the press I can get the Xmas order in early.

And more from The (very biased) Scotsman

Before Scoland approaches any second referendum, though we need a period of steady, consistent thinking about exactly how such a move could be economically sustainable

Unlike the last time…..hey, this Scottish press stuff is great isn’t it?

NInfan – how disingenuous of you. Of course it has changed and changed hugely

We were told the only way to stay in the EU was to stay in the UK

By who? The First minister, in an official speech as first minister, said that a remain vote risked Scotland being dragged out of the EU, it was as far from ‘expressing a personal opinion’ as you can get.

You equate Salmonds opinion with SNP policy

The official position of the Scottish Government was that it was a once in a generation vote, this was not Salmond ‘opinion’ it was stated publically by both him and Sturgeon and published as official government policy in ‘Scotlands Future’ – again, as far from ‘expressing a personal opinion’ as you can get.

Big and daft – have a google – its all out there. Senior EU officials, foreign ministers etc. We can’t have an official answer until westminster asks

Do you have legal advice on that

Do you have a comment realted to if the UK leaves and it is the succesor state?

Deary me is that the best you can do ?

is the view of the current Scottish Government that a referendum is a once-in-a-generation opportunity. This means that only a majority vote for Yes in 2014 would give certainty that Scotland will be independent.

thank god its a well establish parliamentary convention that govts cannot bind other govts eh That said good find.so that is the one thing the SNP said that was true in amn=ingst all their lies then 😉
The ote to leave the EU is clearly a seismic change and you need to be willfully myopic to argue otherwise so i guess you will continue 😛

How is it a game changer?

AH i shoul dhave read on
In the way that anyone with even a semblance of comprehension can see hence your confusion

Their is a time and place for “devils advocate” but this is poor. Its a massive change, we ALL know it even you.

Don’t you just hate it when actual documentary evidence undermines the SNP revisionist rhetoric

some good finds and i am sure we are all as stunned as you to see a political party reverses it views after saying things to rally the troops….it is unheard of.

It’s a game changer

Scottish independence and the polls: why Brexit is not a game changer

Or not

Can you imagine what sample must have been chosen to get a conclusion that 54% would rather live in a Scotland that was part of the U.K. that was not part of the single market versus 46% who would rather live in a Scotland that was a member of the single market but was not part of the U.K.

What is wrong with these people? Do they not read WoS?

It is hard to disagree with the conclusion in The Herald by BMG research Director Dr Michael Turner that when it comes to independence, Brexit “is not a game changer”. Support for remaining in the EU does not translate directly into supporting independence to achieve that goal. Nor has the Brexit referendum had a dramatic effect on party support in Scotland (see table).

How very inconvenient.

How is it a game changer?

I can only talk from personal opinion.

I voted to stay in UK as a) I didn’t want to leave Europe and b) I didn’t like the way the SNP sucked up to Trump.

Now we are ‘out of Europe’ and England appears to have lurched to the right I have no wish to remain as part of UK. I do not want to be associated with it in its current political guise. I’m prepared to vote independence as a result, I’d rather we beat ourselves with our own rod than the English (jack)boot. Plus, I haven’t that much to lose, so **** it.

And even Wee Eck seems to have wised up to ‘the Donald’…

So, a game changer for me.

I can only talk from personal opinion.

I voted to stay in UK as a) I didn’t want to leave Europe and b) I didn’t like the way the SNP sucked up to Trump.

But, you were warned this might happen before voting and chose to risk it… it’s not a game changer, it’s buyers regret.

It’s no more a ‘game changer’ than people discovering that voting for Brexit actually means the UK leaving the EU.

, I’d rather we beat ourselves with our own rod than the English (jack)boot. Plus, I haven’t that much to lose, so **** it.

I wondered how long before we could call Godwin’s law

tjagain – Member

We were told the only way to stay in the EU was to stay in the UK

This was true.
An independent Scotland would be treated as a brand new nation, would cease to be a member of the EU, and would have to apply to join the EU same as any other country that isn’t in the EU.

It’s all in the articles. I linked to them in the first volume if you fancy a look. 🙂

it’s buyers regret.

No, its really not. You don’t know what I think. It’s gone from why would we throw all that away to now they’ve thrown it all away, **** em.

Every word you type just makes this clearer to me.

With Nicola leading the austerity charge to ensure that membership requirements would be met – how amusing that would be. But since we all have a common interest in looking out for the best and widest interests of the Scottish people I am sure that no one would be advocating that in truth.

Ninfan – if you are still reading this thread there is a rights of way one that you could give advice on – “landowner needs put back in the box”

Big and daft – have a google – its all out there. Senior EU officials, foreign ministers etc. We can’t have an official answer until westminster asks

Have a google – it’s all out there. The Scottish Government asked for, and received, an official answer. This whole “only Westminster can ask” is a smokescreen. Our UKIP MEP asked as well.

The SNP didn’t like the answer, so they carried on as if they had never asked, but the letters are available on the Scottish Government website.

If Scotland had voted for independence, it would be a new country to which the treaties would not apply. It could apply to join through the usual route.

While I am fairly confident we would be accepted into the EU, it might not be pleasant (we don’t meet the criteria), we’d almost certainly not have all our current opt-outs and it wouldn’t be particularly quick. Bear in mind that a unanimous vote of all existing members is required.

Nonsense – we never got an official answer

did someone forge this

http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf

if so, they did very good job

http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/2014_06_04_Viiviane_Redding_to_Convener.pdf

Twice 😉

anyway grumpy the situation is different post the EU referendum. I have seen EU lawyers opinion that if the EU wanted to do it they could simply declare scotland the successor state so long as the independence vote was before the UK left the EU