Pie – Definitions please

PP. your exaltations of MrsPP’s pies require extensive examination and repeated testing, and tasting, to confirm they are actual pies. When and where is this to be done?

I’ll take one for the team and volunteer to check their pie-ness. No need to thank me.

Pies are pastry all around.
Stew should be topped with dumplings, not pastry.

Cornish Pasty is far better again.

Pies are pastry all around.
Stew should be topped with dumplings, not pastry.

Amen (or “word” if MrWoppit’s listening)

Cornish Pasty is far better again

Generally better cold than a proper pie*, and therefore appropriate breakfast food only**

*other than pork pie and even some of it’s effete chutney-topped derivatives

** unless toiling in the field from morn to dusk, or whatever it is that peasants do 😉

OP and Cougar +1.
Recently introduced to suet pudding. Thought it was great. How do dishes of that ilk sit within the debate? I thought they may be excluded on account of the steaming/boiling cooking method.

Clue’s in the name, really. Though I believe the correct term for these is “babby’s yed”.

Your arguing about pies now?

*walk away shaking head*

emsz – Member
Your

You are a bad lady

It’s attitudes like that that allow these things to happen.

All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

Bother,I find myself in agreement with the northerners and I am so far South that if I go 300 yards further south I get my feet wet in the Solent.

In a similar vein, can we talk about coffee now. If it has foam chocolate syrup or other novelty flavours in it – that is not coffee, it is warm gunk with a hint of coffee and who orders a pie and mocachino together. And why does 3 shots of espresso in a small cup always result in me being asked if I know how strong it will be!!!!!

Pies should be self supporting and completely pastry encased, anything else is just wrong and not fit to sully the name pie.
Talking of which dinner tonight was steak, mushroom and ale pie made with Theakstons Old Peculier. It was truly memorable and a pie even Mrs PP would have been proud of.
Yep, definitely a northerner …

The only thing that’s allowed a top crust only is corned beef hash with pickled cabbage on the side, and non of that puffy puff shite either.. Short crust or sod off!

A pie should be self-contained IMO.

Stew with a lid served in a Gastro-Pub is not a pie, it’s a stew with a lid in it’s own little dish.

Need lots of pastry to be a proper pie.

noun
a baked dish of fruit, or meat and vegetables, typically with a top and base of pastry:
a meat pie

[mass noun]:a good meal of hot pie and peas

[as modifier]:a pie dish

There you go.
I’m a bit more catholic than some types on here and would be happy using the following equation.

Meat+gravy+pastry=good times
or
Meat+gravy+pastry+peas+pickledbetroot+pickledcabbage+pickedonions=good timesx10

The pie shop is no place for puritans

I don’t accept a stew with a pastry top as a pie.

stew with a lid is not a pie.

i had a pork pie for elevenses – it looked a bit like this:

and now i feel epic.

We went to the much-vaunted pie pub in Banbury a few weeks ago and whilst the food is undoubtedly very nice, they also run with this half-a-job pastry on the top only. The Cornish Pasty would never have evolved with this kind of half-baked half-bakery.

I have nothing to contribute other than a) Stoner who I know in real life and had down as a sensible and well informed sort of chap has clearly gone batsh!t crazy and b) its days like this I remember why I keep coming back to this place.

STW should essentially be the final arbitor on all pastry/meat related quandaries. With the power of veto. With an axe if necessary.

“What about a steak and kidney pudding made with suet pastry? Pudding or Pie”

It’s pudding for pie lovers. The perfect example can be found at The Church Inn, Uppermill. Their steak and kidney pud is served with the traditional chips, mushy peas and gravy. I find it goes even better with a pint of dark mild brewed on the premises.

Now that’s the sort of lunch a southerner can only dream about.

Yunki, that barely qualifies as food, never mind Pie.

I was starting to salivate reading MT’s description of the Steak and Kidney pud… then i was nearly sick in my mouth when Yunki’s pic popped up

Bad Yunki 🙁

My 2p – Pie has to be encased, sloppy gravy with a puff pastry does not constitute a pie. It’s just a lazy/cheap chef not doing it properly

Down here in the south of France 8) pies don’t exist which is one of the main reasons further European integration should be firmly resisted.
If the north and south can debate pies for this long imagine what would happen in Brussels , mind you we would have Neil Kinnock fighting our corner so no worries their then.

I’m pretty Southern and I feel that I should stand up for the ‘totally encased’ pie fanatics on this thread.

Pies that come with just a twee little puffy lid that explodes all over the table when you attempt to cut into it should be ceremonially shot from a cannon off the White Cliffs of Dover never to be seen again!

Mash is acceptable for fish, sheperd’s and cottage pie, but I am not sure why.

Bad Yunki

That boy has the devil in him…….

Remember the thin, soggy, beige membrane of raw pastry twixt ‘beef’ and crust?
Ewwwwwwwwwwwww.

I thought that historically the whole point of a pie was to use the pastry case as a “dish” to contain the contents and hold it away from your probably manky, unclean, leaky container; the case itself didn’t get eaten so could be used again.

This suggests that pies should (a) be fully enclosed and (b) be short crust. These two conditions I personally am fully in support of (puff pastry? Seriously?).

Puff pastry is perfectly acceptable – on a dessert.

Pontypine sized dishes with puffy flaky hats might qualify under the dictionary definition but I put it to the STW massive that the dictionary has been subverted by philistines.

And just what the hell is a pizza pie? Gadzooks.

A pie is a thing of beauty and I find myself (for once) fully in agreement with the sentiments of the north. Self supporting, encased by pastry, gravy that oozes out when cut, with a predominance of meaty products flavoured with perhaps a small amount of select veg – onion, a few chunks of carrots or peas.

It’s pudding for pie lovers. The perfect example can be found at The Church Inn, Uppermill. Their steak and kidney pud is served with the traditional chips, mushy peas and gravy. I find it goes even better with a pint of dark mild brewed on the premises.

Now that’s the sort of lunch a southerner can only dream about

I am actually dreaming about that now.

The problem with the “stew with pastry hat”, be it short or puff, is that it should really be a plethora of dumplings (not sure if there is a specific name for a gathering of dumplings) for it to succeed as a dish.
Pie with pastry (unless it’s the exempt few), stew with dumplings.

mmmmmmmmpie[/url]

I have the good fortune of a stockist at the end of my road however even these delightful offerings have nothing on the home cooked versions.

Today this place has made me a happier person, I’m glad to read that there are at least some of us who still take these things seriously.

Stew with a hat does not equal pie.

This +1000. The hat also keeps the stew slightly hotter than the surface of the sun.

Shepherd’s and fish pies have honorary status because everyone knows they are topped with mash, so whilst nomenclature may not be strictly accurate, you know what you’re getting if you order it.

Have the scot’s done battered pies yet?

It’s really quite simple.

Can you pick it up in your hands and carry it to your mouth? If you cannot (for any reason other than “it’s a really big one”) then it is not, by any sensible definition, a pie. A pie is self-sustaining and stands alone, proud. It does not require third party support from some party-sized casserole dish.

Stew with a hat does not equal pie.

I associate myself with those remarks.

End of thread surely.

I’m a proper southerner and agree with all the above – short pastry all round, thick oozing gravy = pie. Though I do propose that puff pastry is to be fully endorsed on a beef wellington like wot Mrs P cooked on Saturday. But that’s definitely not a pie.

I’m a proper southerner and agree with all the above – short pastry all round, thick oozing gravy = pie.

Not quite sure why the northerners are trying to annex the concept of pie, they seem to believe proper pies are unavailable in the south?

Mmmmm real northern pie…..

The definition of a pie is quite simple. Can it be comfortably slapped on a barm cake?

I will hold my hands up and admit that piegate came when I was at a low-point in my life. I was in the final death-throes of terminal man-flu, and crankier than Cressers on crack.

Whilst I might concede that pro-pie-ganda spouted by some in this thread regarding a clungy-wrapped, concrete encased, inverted turtle of a meat product is the correct definition of a “pie”, it is still, not to put too fine a point on it, crap.

And the mighty slab of puff pastry that covers the full spectrum of pastry textures from slippy, gravy-slathered underbelly to fluffy light scabbed-knee top still reigns supreme.

You win this battle, but you still lose the war!

I’m moderate in my pie prejudice, I can contain my rage when presented with stew with a short crust hat (at least it’s the correct pastry) but puff pastry has no place in a savoury meal full stop.

Stew with a hat does not equal pie.

I’m pretty sure that I have been served one of these abominations in Wigan.

Suprised the place in question is still in business.

puff pastry has no place in a savoury meal full stop.

I politely refer you to my post above and urge you to reconsider that statement with due consideration to beef wellington.

thepurist – Member
puff pastry has no place in a savoury meal full stop.
I politely refer you to my post above and urge you to reconsider that statement with due consideration to beef wellington.

Is this the Sunday puff rule like the Friday Kylie? And anyway it doesn’t puff so much on a Wellington.