[Closed] Pentland Hills Thread

Good idea, especially this time of year when the trails are at their worst...

Good shout Druidh. Often handy to have an update on conditions etc. Goes without saying that it is muddy up there at the moment though. More frost needed - had some excellent crispy Boxing day rides in the past!

That parking idea seems ill thought through. As you say, people will just park on the verges round the corner from the car parks unless they are going to put signs along all of the verges and enforce parking there too. Certainly seems contrary to council policies on encouraging healthy living.

No enforcement.
No yellow lines.
No barriers.

I was last there Wednesday. it was muddy and unpleasantly windy.
parking doesn't really effect me too much personally as i nearly always ride there from home.
So will there be a special man who comes round and checks for parking tickets? will the revenue from parking pay enough to cover that?
Seems pointless, although we have the right to roam and ride, not to park 😉

Mind you, if it works like the 7Stanes etc, it might still work if funds were ring fenced for path maintenance etc. Having glanced through the report, it seems that this is the intention, and people may therefore be prepared to pay. You don't see lots of people parking on the verges and streets just outside the Innerleithen car park for example, so maybe my initial comment was too cynical. As Fraser says, I suspect it will affect few cyclists directly since most won't drive to the Pentlands.

Aye, I don't see it having that much impact on us (though, guilty admission, I do drive to Bonaly with the downhill bike sometimes even though it's only a couple of miles)

Even with the ringfenced funding though it'll still probably just offset a budget cut elsewhere rather than adding development money.

The thin end of an undesirable wedge, though most of those affected won't be cyclists. At least it's not as bad as the enthusiasm some were expressing elsewhere that we should be indicating to the Council that we are keen to pay to park our bicycles in Edinburgh.

brr brr and brr. Highly muddy, highly cold and highly windy today. Standing water turning to ice on the tops, mud starting to crust. Garmin was reading 2C today.

mud starting to crust

More of this please. Long overdue a good frost to firm up the Pentlands and make it rideable with causing erosion. Sadly the forecast is for well above freezing, so I'll still be avoiding the Pentlands for the foreseeable future.

I bet less than 5% of those using car parks are riding.

1:20? Might not even be that high. I'm more concerned that we'll see some of the nearby roads lined with cars, narrowing them and potentially causing accidents if folk aren't careful when pulling out, opening doors etc.

pixelmix - Member
mud starting to crust
More of this please. Long overdue a good frost to firm up the Pentlands and make it rideable with causing erosion. Sadly the forecast is for well above freezing, so I'll still be avoiding the Pentlands for the foreseeable future.

I think Al Is probably right with the low numbers of bike racks and roof racks I see at Flotterstone . I think Ive done less riding there this year than most with a fairly poor summer followed by warmer , windier and wetter winter. I'd still pay a couple of quid to park there though .

1:19 actually 😀

I get your point tho druid.

The cars with bike racks that I tend to see in the car parks tend to be for families. It would be a shame to put off parents & their kids from cycling round the reservoirs.

Maybe we should be putting forward a voluntary contribution system & set up work teams to help repair paths / gates etc?

...or just a tax on dog sh*te......

..as for a condition report, is there not room for a wee website giving routes & conditions etc?

Heaven forbid a Facebook page........

Any updates on Pentlands conditions, and/or the Water of Leith?

The last few days have been relatively dry and breezy, so I'm hoping that things might be just a little bit better than they have been.

That section of the Water of Leith by the tunnel was a right muddy mess last time I rode it. Any improvement this morning?

I was up there last night - ok on the main routes, still boggy elsewhere, but I've seen worse. I blame the sheep. Nice frost this morning - would be perfect up there now.

WOL at the tunnel has been scraped back to the solid base for about 20m eastwards from tunnel mouth and looks like it's being re-surfaced. Ace news. Full speed exits are back ON.

I missed this first time round, car parking charges would be excellent news, anything that brings some more money into the PHRP can only be a good thing. I think a lot of people don't realise just how big a struggle funding is for organisations like the PHRP.

WOL at the tunnel has been scraped back to the solid base for about 20m eastwards from tunnel mouth and looks like it's being re-surfaced. Ace news. Full speed exits are back ON.

Excellent news - was a bit interesting coming out of the tunnel at 20mph in slicks and sliding around in the mud. I don't mind getting mucky but it is a useful commuting route if it could be a wee bit drier.

I tweeted the council about this the other day and they promised to look into it, but I'd be surprised if they started work that quickly. Any idea when this work was started?

That is good news - I've been avoiding that section of the WoL for a while now

It's just fine with the right tyre choice.

Saw on the BBC website some lassie was attacked on the WoL path up near Colinton. Not good.

Saw on the BBC website some lassie was attacked on the WoL path up near Colinton. Not good

pixelmix, no idea about the work/tunnel, but i've been surprised by the council and how quickly they've acted on a complaint (i emailed first thing in the morning, was fixed by the time i got home that night!)

It's just fine with the right tyre choice.

I don't mind a bit of slidey riding, but it's a right pain getting to wherever you are going and being covered in mud solely because of that section! The rest of the WoL is reasonably dry at the moment.

Saw on the BBC website some lassie was attacked on the WoL path up near Colinton. Not good.

Fantastic up there today, trails frozen nicely apart from the bigger puddle/bog bits that still weren't frozen enough to hold 13 stone of hangover. Was tempted to give the revamped Phantoms a whirl but decided not to based on that. Cox's/Jonny Zebra is riding nicely now its solid. I'm not sure I've ever seen as many walkers up there as I did today, but didn't see any other bikers. Get up there tomorrow if you can!

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FWIW, I was up the Gypsy Glen route today (walking) and I don't think I've ever seen it in better condition. All the boggy bits were solid, only a few frozen puddles to avoid and the normally loose gravelly surface was bonded together by the frost. I'm seriously considering going back tomorrow with the bike!

I'm seriously considering going back tomorrow with the bike!

Do it! I left it too late to make the most of it today and because it was riding so nicely spent ages trying to decide which trails to ride and dithering around. Its almost better than summer when its like this. Some sheet ice bits to watch out for though.

Well, I ended up going out this afternoon for a quick blast round the Pentlands, still sussing out the new bike. Less ice on the Maidens descent than last time I was out and only a few patches on the Glen Road to watch out for. I stopped for a quick photo at Johnstons Bridge.
[img] [/img]

I took advantage of the completely frozen conditions to do a recce of Nai Trail. OMG!!! I haven't been along there for ages and it's been completely trashed by bikes. There are a few trees down now too - as a result of recent gales. Normally, I'd clear some of these off the track but I decided that it's probably better to leave Mother Nature to her own devices.

Such a shame the nail trail. It was put in some magazines "must do" route of the pentlands I believe and thus took more traffic than it could bear.

I wonder if we can repair it - either with permission or by stealth - or does it require too much work?

druidh - OMG!!! I haven't been along there for ages and it's been completely trashed by bikes.

It depresses me the impact that bikes are having on the more popular paths up there now. There is just to many people riding, I have seen a massive change since I started riding up there 5 years ago.

Bigjim, any evidence of the Pentlands 'Megaavalanche' event that was held on Cox's in October?

When I heard about it I was pretty p*ssed off but wasn't going to bitch on here as I know the guy who organised it and he's a pretty decent guy (and embarassingly keen/good on the bike...).

druidh, as always, gutted to hear about the condition of Nail Trail. Would be really cool to do some guerrilla repair work on it but not sure if that would just antagonise whoever was laying the nail traps in the first place.

Also not sure what you could usefully do to it other than trying to hardcoat/armour the bits that are getting trashed. I know my favourite combo of left-corner/jump/right-corner is now blown-out-mud-pit/jump/blown-out-mud-pit 🙁

Had a great ride today, first time in nearly 5 months in the Pentlands due to the conditions. Ride included Phantoms and Black Hill, the latter was bloody brilliant, as was the descent to Bavelaw. -5C outside at the moment, so tempted to go out again tomorrow, time to fill yer boots, it was like a bloody cold summers day.

TJ/13fm - I hate to say this, but I reckon that the Nail Trail should be off-limit to bikes until it recovers. Judgng by its current condition, that would be a couple of good (i.e. warm/dry) years).
The section from Balerno to the pylon is basically OK.
Round the pylon is as bad as I've seen.
From there to the wee bridge is passable.
From there onwards, it's truly awful. In fact, I really can't work out what was going on just South of the bridge because it's massively chewed up over a really wide area - much wider than the trail.

I can't see how any of those bits could be repaired and, in any case, there are a couple of fairly hefty trees down across the trail too.

What makes me particularly sad is that I included that trail on the wee Google Earth map I drew up and shared.

TandemJeremy - Member

I wonder if we can repair it - either with permission or by stealth - or does it require too much work?

I've done some drainage work with an eye towards summer but tbh it's just been damage reduction. Hope it'll have some effect. Very bad lie of the land in there, lots of places the trail goes right through the low points...

That's why I won't post details of my local trails on tinterweb. Might seem tight but I like them as they are and I have enough work to do keeping them clear of branches and the like. But there are a few folk on here that have ridden them for the price of a pizza.

Northwind - Member
The longer route's relatively intact as it's just naturally better drained and located. (but then it has a few fencehops)

aaaand it's gone.

Don`t think i will ride the Pentlands again, like riding on egg shells, Nice though if you get it frozen like you did Steven 🙂
Slight hijack;
There are similar trails down here at Pencaitland the same,
Kinchie trail is trashed, one long rut, and i know it is all not been just by the local gang (which includes me). i do not blame the walker who has dragged branches across it to try stop cyclists, as it cannot be a pleasant walk now...
Guess thats what happens when you blog and film stuff 😳
So im bowing out of xc stuff for a while and staying on the sandy stuff...

Druidh were you along the coast Saturday? 😉
twin Larry tracks from Aberlady point to NB, i know Gary B came later and saw our 7 sets of tracks
if not you, then there is another... 🙂

Not me coastkid. I was going to ask about best places to go though.

Druidh, I've edited my post, you might want to edit your posting my post 😉

Im busy Sat to go out, but Port Seaton to Gosford Bay then JMW to Aberlady is nice, (Gosford Bothy cafe)

Or Aberlady to NB as mentioned,(Westgate Gallery Cafe is ace. bike parking in wheelie bin compound)

Or Seacliff to Tyninghame,(Tyninghame Cafe)

or John Muir Bay from Tyninghame to Dunbar then around to Barnes Ness,
(Old cafe in High Street)

Or you could just spend all day riding the miles of criss cross sandy singletrack around Gullane, (German Cafe)

Spoiled for choice 🙂

Bigjim, any evidence of the Pentlands 'Megaavalanche' event that was held on Cox's in October?

No way - I have previously commented on the state of the steep bit at the end of Cox's a month or two back - I thought a large group had been down it with locked rear brakes as it has become a mud chute. I didn't ride it yesterday based on that - I did the first bit then took the right down the the jonny zebra bit. Bit of a shame about that, it was such a sensitive bit of trail that steep bit.

I remember there was some adventure race in the Pentlands in 2008 which saw a load of people on bikes go down Phantoms and it was never the same after that. Apparently they were supposed to stick to paths on a 50k OS map and they didn't.

Does this post date tie in with the pentland megaavalanche?

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/its-glorious-out-there#post-3137131

edit, no dates are there, but it was 2 months ago, so would fit...

Yeah, about the right time. If you imagine trying to race down that steep bit, blind, then there probably would be a hell of a lot of back brake!

Notice suggestions that it might have been the uni club, it was organised by [b]a[/b] uni, but not [b]the[/b] uni 😉 [b]The[/b] uni club are pretty good at staying off squishy stuff on their big rides, or so I've seen on my infrequent outings with them.

druidh - Member

TJ/13fm - I hate to say this, but I reckon that the Nail Trail should be off-limit to bikes until it recovers. Judgng by its current condition, that would be a couple of good (i.e. warm/dry) years).
The section from Balerno to the pylon is basically OK.
Round the pylon is as bad as I've seen.
From there to the wee bridge is passable.
From there onwards, it's truly awful. In fact, I really can't work out what was going on just South of the bridge because it's massively chewed up over a really wide area - much wider than the trail.

I can't see how any of those bits could be repaired and, in any case, there are a couple of fairly hefty trees down across the trail too.

How do we deal with this then if it really has deteriorated to teh point that bikes need to keep off it? notice at the entrance ? Publicise it round the forums?.

Its a real shame. I have only been down it once in the last couple of years

What makes me particularly sad is that I included that trail on the wee Google Earth map I drew up and shared.

I don't think that was the real cause - was it not included in a magazines route guide that caused immediate increased traffic?

I am in the process of trying to arrange some more repair dates and maybe something could be done with it. Do you know who the landowner is?

Which bit is Cox's? Is that the bit going down to Green Cleugh?

I must be out the loop as I haven't a scooby where Cox's Is.? I did a lot less riding in the Pentlands last year , Probably up a total of six times . If you stick to the higher parts and out of the woods Its usually still pretty rideable.
Shame a lot of It has been ruined but a lot of that is down to two fairly poor summers and bad winters.

Mark/Stanfree, Cox's is the skinny, slightly exposed singletrack along the top of the cliffs above the Dreghorn end of the red road.

Initially the 'megavalanche' route was supposed to avoid the steeper run out (taking it instead across the boggy stuff towards Jonny Zebra 😕 ) but I think someone had a rush of blood to the head on race day.

I think a lot of factors contributed to Nail Trail suffering, must confess when we first discovered it (well, were shown it) about 8 years ago I blabbed to all and sundry, just because it was such a nice bit of trail. The fact its so close to one of the major car parks can't help...

Maybe collaberate with the rangers and put up laminated signs at the start of trail sections asking bikers not to ride it due to damage and trying to let it recover?

If I came across a sign politely asking me not to ride a particular section of trail for a short period of time while it was repaired/naturally recovered, i'd take heed...some wouldn't though but it would probably help.

I definately think that the Pentlands needs a voluntary MTB group to help maintain and educate riders. The repair days last year were a very good start. I'd help out/be part of it.

There is just to many people riding, I have seen a massive change since I started riding up there 5 years ago

I've seen even bigger chances in the 5 years prior to that, and the 5 prior to that, and the 5 before that...etc..

I'm not sure that erosion/damage is specifically a bike thing. Though obviously they don't help, especially when riders tend to concentrate on certain trails - and then so you notice changes in those more.

The biggest changes I've noticed in trails being destroyed etc etc. have been from when we've had a load of snow, it melts/freezes/melts again then rains. Black hill 3 years ago springs to mind. We had that really bad wet spell, the trenches appeared basically overnight and it's never recovered.

In fact I'd struggle to think of a trail that's not seen significant change in the years I've been riding in the hills.

So no particularl comment to add to this discussion, other than change isn't a change. No change would be.

I didn't think nail trail was in the PHRP. Most trails in the park do have those little colour coded signs indicating sensitivity to cycling.

We were out for a quick loop on Sunday - which was lovely on the frozen ground btw - and the bottom of Maidens is a mess of tyre tracks from the junction with Phantoms down to the rocky section before the road at Glencorse.

Obviously a lot of people don't want to get muddy when they're out on their bikes so lots of new lines down Maidens* and generally all the areas that would have been a little muddy line are now wide expanses of mud.

The bottom of the rocky road from Kinleith is shocking too, there is now axle (at least) deep mud from the fence on one side to the wall at the other although from what we saw horses are making a contribution to this too.

Two issues that I can see and I don't think will be addressed no matter how many mtb forums you post on are;
1-with the easy accessibility to these bits of the hills there are a lot of people using them that are just out riding their bikes, and possibily making their first forays offroad, but haven't bought into the lifestyle and don't have any contact with the 'mtb community' and dont know/care that they are doing damage.
2-Horse riders need to take some responsibility and think about how much damage hooves can do on soft ground.

*I don't really think this is too much of an issue except for the widening effect as it'll get resurfaced soon enough and everyone will complain about it being ruined 🙄

There, I've taken ages typing and deleting and re-typing that so I hope it makes some sense!

p.s. the work done by the stw work crew looks like it is holding up well.

The frozen horse hoof prints on Capelaw hill were knocking my fillings out on Sunday actually, was surprised they'd been up there but guess I've seen them up there before.

I like the idea of little polite signs, "We can't tell you not to ride this but it's probably not a very good idea" sort of thing, wouldn't stop everyone but for a lot of people I think it's a lack of awareness rather than a lack of consideration.

13thfloormonk - Member

Notice suggestions that it might have been the uni club, it was organised by a uni, but not the uni

Wasn't Heriot Watt was it?

TandemJeremy - Member

I don't think that was the real cause - was it not included in a magazines route guide that caused immediate increased traffic?

MBR... Can't have helped but it's not the cause, the article didn't come out til after the trail really started to suffer.

Northwind - Member
I like the idea of little polite signs, "We can't tell you not to ride this but it's probably not a very good idea" sort of thing, wouldn't stop everyone but for a lot of people I think it's a lack of awareness rather than a lack of consideration.

IA - I've seen even bigger chances in the 5 years prior to that, and the 5 prior to that, and the 5 before that...etc..

I'm not sure that erosion/damage is specifically a bike thing. Though obviously they don't help

Bikes don't help, but yes it is a general land use / path erosion issue.

The worst erosion I have seen is on Dreghorn Drop landrover track, where the rain runoff has eroded deep (4 foot?) gullies right down the road.

I think some of the main loops should be maintained and metaled. I'm not sure of the routes from Bonalay as that isn't where I start from apart from the rare occasion I go on a Wed night run, but the loop from Flotterstone is almost all good apart from the drop back down to Glencourse, which depresses the hell out of me as it is quite trashed in at least three places - tramlines at the top that have really widened recently, the middle bit that is cut up and boggy, and the bottom mudfest where it joins Madens.

I went round the back of Black Hill once maybe 4 years ago and was horrified at the gully gouged out the side of the hill.

The track down from East Cairn Hill is also quite eroded in places - but this isn't a main MTB route at all, it is another landrover track.

So yes, all usage - landrover, horse, foot, and bike, has a negative impact, and subsequent frost and water erosion can sweep away the paths.

The plain fact is the park is not being maintained enough. All these eroded tracks especially need corrected, or they will just get worse and worse, and we'll end up loosing the sides of hills.

Workparties are good, but they won't solve the issue. There needs to be a considerable amount of money manpower and resources put into maintaining the main routes and stopping the path / track erosion. I would also think that signs and maybe a path report website would help keep at lest those of us that give a toss from riding impacted trails. I have been there, and I'm sure most of you have as well, where you set out to do a route, and find yourself half way round in a bogfest, and no option but to keep going.

nikk - Member
I would also think that signs and maybe [b]a path report website[/b] would help keep at lest those of us that give a toss from riding impacted trails

The worst erosion I have seen is on Dreghorn Drop landrover track, where the rain runoff has eroded deep (4 foot?) gullies right down the road.

Aye, they appeared (in current really bad form) in the same snow/melt/snow/melt/rain cycle that did black hill in. It was amazing how quickly that went from "a little rough but you could still get a landy up it" to "scale model of the grand canyon". As you say, that needs serious work to fix that path, and not just manpower, needs machines! TBH i'm surprised the army haven't sorted it out, as it's basically there for their access. Used to see them using it fairly often, but not in recent years. I wonder if because it's in disrepair, or it's not repaired cos they don't use it any more...

The army smoothed-out (ruined) that trail in the 90s IIRC - don't they use it any more?

Not that i've seen, since it became a gully. As you say, I've always thought of it as "the army road" cos they made it.

There needs to be a considerable amount of money manpower and resources put into maintaining the main routes and stopping the path / track erosion

Yep but sadly the PHRP has very little money coming in now, the car parking charges might help a bit hopefully. Needs a millionaire to leave something in a will really!

The army road was repaired a couple of years ago on the Castlelaw side, as they rally drive a Mule up there twice a day to raise and lower the flags on the top and it had made a right mess. There would be less motivation to repair the natural flood damage on the Howden Glen side as they don't need to get anything up there.

Don't forget another big issue for track repair is landowner permission, there are many landowners up there PHRP have to negotiate with. Black Hill for example is heavily managed as a grouse moor, and I would be very surprised if the owner gave permission to trail improvements that would lead to more people swanning through their grouse moor.

The army road was repaired a couple of years ago on the Castlelaw side, as they rally drive a Mule up there twice a day to raise and lower the flags on the top and it had made a right mess

Aye, but I remember fairly regularly seeing them take landys out the back of the barracks and up the Howden Glen side, but that doesn't seem to happen much these days. I guess they just minibus round the roads to the range now.

As you would expect, crispy and icy today. Most mud on main routes is frozen, although Pistachio was still a bit mushy in places. Lots of smooth ice around to catch out the unwary.

I've not ridden the Pentlands for a while but I did notice a lot of frozen tyre tracks around (presumably laid down in recent damp weeks) - certainly more noticeable than frozen footprints for example.

Set cold for a while. Maybe a frozen night ride this week, like old times 😉

Steven - if it's icy, shout me. Will come. But not thursday.
Bring some more of that SC n Bramble though.

Out tonight - proper crispy / crunchy almost everywhere I went. Just now trying to get blood flow restored to toes!

Was tempted tonight to keep riding up the hill but the lass had the tea and a bath on. She's the boss.

I'm keen to help out with any repair work that needs done. I haven't up there in a couple months as it's in a pretty poor state, but normally up at least once a week.

Maybe Tuesday? Or Monday if fitba is canned. Just filled the flask with the last of the 2009 stuff.

drookitmunter

Today's the day! Bloody perfect!

As a foreigner in these parts can I ask what your user name means?

Drookit - the rangers are being reorganised. I am awaiting them getting back to me with dates for trail repair days

No fitba, we've got a bye this week, so Monday is good for me.

As a foreigner in these parts can I ask what your user name means?

drookit to me means drowned/saturated, and munter is a bit of a derogatory term for a lass that is shall we say "no oil painting". I'm not sure they go together so I might have drookit wrong.

I'm up in Aberfeldy for a few days but I'm normally available weekdays after 6 or weekends so let me know if there's anything I can help with.

Drookit means soaked. Where I'm from (Elgin) Munter doesn't necessarily mean a woman - just a person who is a bit of a fanny and particularly ugly.

Point of interest; took the offspring up white hill for a forage yesterday - man, there's some tree damage up there... aftermath of the new year gale I suppose. Them DH trails must be affected, though saw a bit of dirt ramping making use of a hefty pines bole. The big beeches that fell across the footpath that skirts the road next to scout camp had been sawn up though.

Been up on the Pentland Hills for a run with the dog. Mostly frozen solid and probably good for riding. However, there are a couple of sheets of ice that could be a bit tricky. Might fit the Ice Spiker Pros on the 29er. 😀

Was up there last night. Great conditions, good mix of everything, hardpack, mud, ice and maybe some dust! Obviously cold in the open exposed bits where the wind was blowing. Great couple of hours.

So busy up there tonight, little clusters of lights all over the hills! Largely frozen solid, pistachio still liquid though. Bit icy but no major problems. Came back with a clean bike and bum, good stuff.

not much ice around today. muddy, but not stupidly muddy. Ground still a bit draggy. not too windy. sky grey. could be worse. Not really proper winter tho is it.