Outlander PHEV anyone?

Desperate for a new car. My bought in 2011 for £1k bangernomics estate is really on it’s last legs.

My commute is 25 miles there (morning through town at 6am) and 35 miles back (motorway to avoid town 4-7pm) so 60 miles a day, 14k per year.

I know we have electric charge points at the science park building down the road that I might be able to use that used to have Mitsubishi i-miev but they have no gone but will check this week. This would let me drive to work on electric in the morning, recharge and then drive most of the way home on electric.

Typical weekend driving is 20-30 miles per day to check sheep, go for a dog walk, do the food shop to total annual mileage around 17k + holidays and business trips which would add a few k more (latter would be expensed anyway).

Noticed that you can pick up the Outlander PHEVs for under £20k now with <30k miles so look like they might be an option to save £2k a year on fuel. A lot of money for me to spend on a car but the fuel savings and having a nice modern car are appealing.

You won’t get 32 miles of a charge, 28 is about it on average.

30-35mpg in petrol mode, but it’s about the most practical plug in hybrid available. Loads of space, comfy and quiet.

Paint finish is thin so stone chips are common, and the charging flap is made of cheese.

Having driven one I’d have to say I’d pass…

The interior space is nice and large but the drive controls/switches etc. are really poorly laid out – and don’t get me started on the sat nav. It also bings and bongs at you in a nanny state way if you so much as think about doing something out of line 😉

If you’re only doing short hops then the electric power is OK – I’m not sure what sort of setup you’d need to get it recharged quickly enough to be able to use it’s max range each day though. As soon as you need to use the petrol engine the whole thing goes downhill…

It hoovers juice (driven just on the petrol engine it does under 25mpg) and starts having an attack of the vapours if you try and cruise above 75mph. It probably works best as a town car – or one for someone trying to avoid tax or the congestion charge.

If I really had to have one I’d get the diesel but I’d probably look for something else with a better class of interior. There’s probably a good reason for lots of them coming up 2nd hand (might be worth while finding out the battery pack life too and how much that costs to replace when the time comes).

It’s the most over bullshote MPG claims ever.

There really out to be a clamp down on such exaggerated claims.

Happened to read about them on a WhatCar review of 7 seaters. General view was dull to drive and onky really of any interest due to Govt discount. If you want a leccy car but something small or a Yaris/Aurius Hybrid ?

I had one as a hire car for a 3 day business trip – mostly consisting of a 3 hr motorway & mixed A/B-road drive there and back.

It was a nice enough car, but as above fuel economy for this type of trip was rubbish – I think we achieved 27MPG overall. It’s probably very different for town use – the electric drive really does work – it was quite impressive that it would do 75mph+ on the motorway in purely electric mode if requested.

The layout and functionality of the controls is shocking – I had the worldwide analysis manager of a major engineering company in the passenger seat, and neither of us could figure out how to get the sat nav to give us a predicted arrival time.

One thing was great though – you can set the point at which regenerative braking starts – I set it for “neutral drive” to be about 1/3 pedal travel, so lifting the foot off the acclerator is moderate braking (elec motors regenerating) – for the twistly B road section you could brake and accelerate with the one pedal.

If you’ve got stop-start town driving it would make sense. It did seem very very complex though and I suspect very very expensive to diagnose / repair.

A mate has one as a works car – he has an Eco role so seemed appropriate.

Says it’s Ok to drive, the electric charge is great for all the shorter journeys they have to make, but overall it’s not much economical to drive than a regular car

I still quite like the look of them though

Depending on the size you need, have a look at the BMW i3. I bought one last September and it is amazing. 60-90 mile electric range, and a petrol generator for back up on longer trips.
Free road tax, sensible insurance and great to drive.

+1 for looking at an i3 – when considering the PHEV I kept coming back to thinking “this technology would be amazing in a smaller car”.

I was looking at leasing an i3 but due to IR35 it looks like I may have to go full time not contractor. I would need something that will definitely be able to go for a 200 mile drive and back no problems so the i3 is probably out. heard some bad stories about them even with the engine backup.

Shame as I quite fancied having the most carbon fibre car in work (work in composites manufacturing research).

Doesnt look great for the PHEV. I had heard the petrol range was bad. Recently hired the 1 litre turbo focus pool car which is woeful too. 350 miles on £60 of petrol! My 16 year old diesel does better than that and could actually accelerate faster than a grannies scooter.

I did see a PHEV pull out of a petrol station (seemed a little ironic) on pure electric mode and it went like a rocket.

The other options are something silly like an Elise (pretty much zero depreciation but not a relaxing drive!) or something predictable like a BMW 320d tourer.

It hoovers juice (driven just on the petrol engine it does under 25mpg) and starts having an attack of the vapours if you try and cruise above 75mph.

A Maserati Ghibli will do better than that! 3.0 V6 was showing between thirty five to forty-ish cruising around about seventy-eighty between Cornwall and Bruntingthorpe, better fuel consumption than my 1.7 Puma, not that that would be difficult…
Stunning car to drive.

From what I’ve been told by a friend who was interested in on and knows someone with one, the electric power won’t work if you have either the heater or air con on?
If that’s correct it’s pretty pointless for most of the year in the UK?
Also said the mpg was very disappointing!
Flip of that is, I know someone with a i3 BMW and loves it, only issue so far has been with a charging point that wasn’t working properly.

You do too much mileage for a PHEV.

Can any electric vehicle currently do a 200 mile journey?

Here goes with the classic STW “get what I’ve got”:

I drove the PHEV but decided against it because it was huge, fugly and had a stupid dashboard as mentioned above. Instead I went for a Golf GTE which can also be had for similar money. It’s essentially a golf which can do a realistic 20-25 miles on electric depending on heater use. It suits me perfectly for my mix of short range electric and longer range hybrid driving. I’m currently averaging about 80mpg average over the long term and saving tones on fuel compared to my preveous small diesel merc. Not to mention the BIK saving as a company car driver. And it’s quick as well.

Friend of mine has one, said it’s great around town but has quite a small fuel tank which means he’s pretty much always to he petrol station.

Father in Law has an 2014 (I think) diesel version, seems ok. Not as big as I thought it would be inside.

the electric power won’t work if you have either the heater or air con on?

Not quite.

All model have electric air con.

The base GX3 model doesn’t have an electric heater, rather a normal one that runs of engine cooling water. Hence the need to use the engine for heating. The other models have an electric heater that can also be used to pre warm the car when still in charge via the mobile app.

The outlander really makes sense if you want a large 4×4 which will be your main family car , but also do short journeys and commutes if less that 30 miles.

2 folk at work have them as company cars. They have the higher range ones with the electric heaters. Charging points installed for free via a grant at home and they use a phone app to have the car all warmed up and ready to go. They each have around 10 miles each way to work, in urban conditions and rarely use anything other than overnight charge on a daily commute.

Company car tax is very low compared to petrol or diesel but there is a fair bit of planning required on charging etc, particularly if going more than 50 miles or so.

They have both said they are good as company cars but they wouldn’t buy one.

Riding mate has an i3 and loves it.

Would small and electric not make more sense? Zoe, Leaf etc.

Leaf is a possibility and very much on my radar but electric only means I cannot use it for say popping up to Sheffield for a meeting and the 80 mile range is cutting it very close on a 60 mile commute if I can’t charge up. At least with a hybrid I have the option of the IC engine.#

The other worry with the Leaf is it would have to be outright battery ownership as to lease the battery for my mileage would cost more then I spend on fuel.

Seen a black GX4 (thanks for the info on the GX3 Jonnyboi) at a car supermarket place near home for £16k which might be worth a look.

The added benefit of a 4×4 is it will be a lot nicer around where I live and I can sneak up on the sheep in electric mode and not have them spot me. They recognise the sound of my car and the land rover now and come running before we get the chance to fill the feed trough!

Will check out the Golf Hybrid when I get 5 mins.

Spotted a nice 2012 BMW 320d tourer that would be the predictable option. It’s the new 2012 model and should see 50-60mpg but is a World destroying diesel.

Jonnyboi,

Thanks for the info, I will inform my friend when I see him next Wednesday.
It seemed a bit strange to me, but I hadn’t any other information to go on.

@boi one of my worries with hybrids is what the performance would be like once the batteri s get a bit old – do you have rubbsih elec perofrman e (understood) and rubbsih hybrid as eelctic boost isn’t there either ? What do you mean by “good performance” ?

I think I remember reading that the PHEV drivers were hogging all the free charging points at motorway service stations. They thought I might as well plug in to get a free 30 miles or so. Problem was that purely electric cars that really needed a charge could not use the charging point.

Think they now charge £5 which makes people think twice before charging their plug in hybrids.

I have had one of these inflicted on me as a company car (GX4S) version, I’ve been driving it for 12 Months now, 25K miles. Prior to this I had the default STW/UKC Octavia Estate. I miss my Octavia.

The PHEV is ok for short commutes, mine is 14miles, I get to work wit about 1/3 battery left on a good day, and I don’t drive quickly. If I charge at work I can just about get home on electric – it’s mostly uphill.

It’s a nice enough car to drive most of the time, the adaptive cruise control makes motorway driving much more pleasant, especially through roadworks etc. It is however either really quick of the mark and powerful overtaking or utterly gutless. It all depends on how much battery you’ve got. With a fair amount of charge it’ll go well, once you’ve used your charge – ie gone more than 15-20 miles – it’s a sack of shit. You press the accelerator, wait a while, then it revs it’s nuts off, then eventually you start to accelerate, after a while you’ll then get a surge of power. It just does not feel connected to your throttle at all. If you want to drive a long trip abroad – I took mine to the alps last summer – then prepare to spend a lot on fuel. At 70mph on French motorways with bikes etc on the roof I averaged 20mpg, with the ridiculously small fuel tank that translates to a fuel stop circa every 200miles, which inevitably means filling up at service stations if you actually want to get anywhere without diversions. Another trick it plays on on you when you want to give it a bit of power up a longish drag (woodhead pass or French motorway) if your battery is nearly empty it just runs out of power, you get a “Loss of propulsion power” warning light and the bloody thing practically goes into limp mode while it tries to charge itself and push you up the hill.

Normal long runs in the UK (which I do a lot with work) I get about 35mpg driving at 65-70. I used to be able to get to south wales and back in my Octavia on half a tank, this thing takes nearly 2 tanks.

It’s 4×4, but ground clearance is low, and the exhaust is in a really exposed position, so be very careful offroad.

So, in summary, unless you are pottering round town, don’t waste your money.

K

Mitsubishi should really rename this vehicle:

Outlandish MPG

They’ll sell half a dozen instead of conning the public.

Can any electric vehicle currently do a 200 mile journey?

Tesla S but it’s not exactly the economy option.

well, rather than just expressing your fears on every hybrid or EV thread, you could, you know, go find out?

Who is that aimed at Del?

Keith – that’s a pretty damning review on your experience. I now see why they are not holding value!

We have one as a works vehicle. Neve made 30 miles on a charge the bloke who drives it is pissed of taking it to the garage to fill it up all the time as it’s not the most economical vehicle on petrol and the build quality is shabby. Hard to believe that this and his old Shogan that the PHEV replaced is built by the same people.

Its hard to think of a clearer example of greenwashing.

Its a big heavy SUV with really small electrical range and a not particularly economical petrol engine.

Would only make sense if you could do your commute on electric charge only

In a bid to reduce my company car tax I looked at one of these. I chose a Nissan Navara instead. Says it all, I think ….

I agree with all bol’s points, and would add in:
Entertainment value of combined power ‘GTE’ mode.
Timed pre-heat for the winter mornings if you leave it plugged in overnight.
Sub-20 mile electric range on a sub-zero day.
400 mile max. range on one charge & tank.
Slightly odd electrical quirks – radio not turning off, transient error messages.

In many ways it’s a lardy GTi that has a decent BiK tax rate. Without knowledge of battery life & replacement costs, I’d be wary of buying one with my own money, and I’d be concerned about long-term maintenance costs – two systems to go wrong & rarity value meaning fewer service choices.

andy – directed at Jambalaya. sorry for any confusion.

Can any electric vehicle currently do a 200 mile journey?

Tesla S but it’s not exactly the economy option.

model 3 coming soon. should be ~ 30k with gov subsidy.

BMW have a Tesla rival coming out this year. 3 series using their carbon core (carbon fibre over metal construction) that can apparently do 300 miles. I assume it’s to compete with the model 3 as it wont get close to the S or X.

I’m a big fan of hybrids and ev’s but everyone who has slagged off the Outlander is right I’m afraid. Its truly a disaster for anything except those looking to reduce bik on car tax. Horrible drive and heavy on fuel plus rubbish boot as its full of batts.

If the op is looking for a secondhand phev thats fun to drive then the Ampera is a bargain and does a true 35 miles on electric plus when you are using fuel it still does 50 mpg and is also a very nice drive.

Winston – another nail in the PHEV coffin, thanks. I keep forgetting about the Ampera so will go look again. Can you get them without the Vauxhall badge? 😉

tbh I have just spent the last hour looking at:

Caterham 7’s (and forum discussions about using one as a daily driver)
Lotus Elise S2 (Toyota engine, £15-17k’ish)
Porsche Caymans (£12k’ish)
Porsche 911s (996 C4 or 997) – £25k’ish

Wondering if I should just embrace the milage and have a nice car after 18 years of driving crap (1x Citroen ZX and 3x Peugeot 306 and bought the OH a Freelander as her second car after she had been driving a year!)

Most expensive car I have bought myself was my first ZX for £1900!

Oh I did have a breif flirt with an E30 325i tourer which I bought for £1! Awesome car but sold it in the interest of keeping my licence as it was too tempting…

you can but then its a Cheverolet badge so not a great leap…

Its a shame (not really) that Roadsters are appreciating like an escalator or you could have had almost an S2 with a ev drivetrain

Someone I know is having a classic 1979 Porche 911 rebuilt up with an electric drive. Amusingly it might well turn out to have the fastest 0-60 of ANY 911 built…

plus rubbish boot as its full of batts.

There’s no battery in the boot, they run along the floor between the axles.

The space in the boot where the third row of seats normally folds is taken up by the rear electric motor.

Well I have one and I think its bloody marvelous. But then I’m no longer a wage slave so most of my driving is fairly local and done on e-power from off peak charging. It also comfortably fits my biking and windsurfing toys and is a comfortable, relaxing drive.
It’s a good car for a certain type of driving needs, but you need to learn how to get the best out of it.

Nearly went for one as a company car in the New Year but binned it for 2 reasons:
1) BIK rate is favourable now (7%), but next year it goes up to 9%, the year after 13% and the one after that 16%. Given the high list price that’s a hefty tax bill.
2) I knew I wouldn’t get that bull***t mileage range. My 18 year old Audi A4 still returns almost 60mpg on A roads 🙂