First new bike since 2006 [though there's been a few builds and 2nd hand ones ;-)]. 2nd ever full susser and most complicated forks yet, I've got some twiddling to do! Least the weather is good.....
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Looks sweet - is that a Genesis Grapil (eyes aren't that good). If so - jealous!
Let me know how she rides
Cheers
Danny B
Yep, nice looking piece of kit. 😀
Indeed it is, not as less known as I thought then! A run up and down the road tells me the back end is more compliant than a c456! Sensible comment will have to wait. The bars seem narrow but at 740mm they not really, I guess I've got use to 780mm. I like the lack of hydroforming, the anodised finish, the bushings not bearings and the sensible slx full spec. At the new price is not bad value either to my mind.
So, results of the first ride - just a quick blast out on Wharncliffe trails. Overall thoughts: It pedals well, little bob even without propedal; its extremely quiet, I guess mainly owing to the shadow plus mech; lots of traction on rocky climbs; stable at speed but also very playful, you can throw it around and be involved, it doesn't just muller everything.
Things I especially liked: the feel of the rear end, firm when you want it to be, working with you when things get bumpy or furious. The fact that you're still very much involved in riding it, not just sitting while it does the work. The Shimano kit all just works.
Things I didn't like: at present the front end feels too high & the bars too narrow. My C456 is quite low owing to the slackset and short headtube and has a 60mm stem and 780mm bars, I think i'll be changing the cockpit around some. The Revelations are firm/don't sag, but when moving quickly go through their travel. I seem to remember my other Revelations being like this when new, they bedded in nicely after a few rides so I hope these will be the same. The Rubber Queens aren't a patch on Hans Dampfs in wet & muddy conditions, quite skittish. I can see them being good in summer though, they certainly roll fast.
Think that's it, subject to a few personal touches we should get along just fine!
Looks a giggle. Enjoy.
Nice - how are the trails. Were muddy as hell on the Greno side at the weekend and I can't see it getting any better with the forecast.
Not ventured down the Wharncliffe side yet since I bought my bike.
(A stable-mate Genesis Latitude 00).
Cheers
Danny B
Trails a boggy mess, pretty much everywhere. I think I'll be putting it away for a while until things improve.
Very interested to hear more Daveh, looks great. Im seriously considering one. I think they look good value at the new price too.
Does it ride light? Do you think you'd ever want to use a longer stroke shock on it or does it feel just right?
How is that ano finish in the flesh, some photos it looks great others a bit dull, I guess its understated stealth?!
Ace. Looks (and sounds like it rides) a lot like my Hemlock. This is a Good Thing, far as I'm concerned!
Do like the look of those is she a weighty beast?
Bear in mind my thoughts are presently based on a single 1.5 hour ride in Wharncliffe, read: smooth Transpennine trail/fireroad, a quick up and down the crags (quite Peak District rocky in places, otherwise fast singletrack) and a through the trees mud fest.
Does it ride light? I’d say yes drawing on personal experience of c456, Rocky Ridge & Heckler. Uphill: You can’t feel any bob, its barely there if you look at the linkage, and this is with propedal off. Subject to my comments on the RQ, it finds traction. My Heckler had a tendency to stop dead if you hit something fairly big fairly slow, whereas the hardtails ping over. It seems like its going to ping over rather than blow through the suspension. Downhill: The Heckler (with coil) always felt as if it was doing the work, you just pointed it and pedalled, so much so I sold it and went back to the Rocky Ridge (then c456). The Grapil is stable (as my c456 with 2º slackset) but also involving, you can work it and pop off stuff. It feels great. I can’t foresee the need for a 140mm back end, but there again I am (was) a hardtail fan, soggy doesn’t suit me. Last night I took the bars out to 750mm and dropped the stem 10mm, the front end suited me much better then. May still look to a 70mm or 60mm stem, we’ll see.
Finish is nice in the flesh, I guess pretty much like any other black ano frame. Black, matt and looks like anodising! 🙂 Its certainly stealthy!
Weight on my (Weight Watchers!) electronic scales was 30lbs without pedals for a 20”. Not light weight, but not heavy either. The frame is supposed to be 7lbs ish, I guess there’s probably a bit of weight in the wheels (slx hubs, 470g rims).
Robbonzo – I can email you a target price if you’d like. 🙂
I've just pulled the trigger Dave, its your fault if I don't like it! 😉
Ive gone for the Grapil 20, I think I will be swapping out the wheels for my WTB i23's, going 1x10, and swapping over some XT bits from my other bike. I literally cant wait. Got a great deal.
Regarding the rubber queens, there's an interesting thread today about them, seems that they need to be run at lower pressures to get the most out of them.
cheers for your insight Dave.
That's what I like to see, a man of decisive action and reckless spending! Subject to the usual personal tweeks I bet (hope!) you'll love it. Do report back. Very tempted to hear about your deal but I won't ask, one of us might end up upset! 😀
Oh, and must try lower pressures as you say, I just fear for the tubes!
It looks like you have the normal Rubber Queens. i.e. not black chili. I find the black chili ones very good. I believe Dan Atherton runs them at 40PSI so they must be ok 😉
Yeah, they're not the black chili, and 2.2s not the 2.4s. I know from my road bike that black chili is good! I reckon they'll be great summer tyres but the knobbles are too short for deep mud and the sidewalls seem to squidge quite a bit despite relatively high pressures. We'll see I guess.
Nice, looks tall, do they do a 29er version?
Hey daveh, I think I bought your Heckler! It's gone to a new home (portlyone off here) since then though 🙂
Tall? BB is 13.2 inch static, which I think is relatively low isn't it? Perhaps its perspective in the photo owing to the saddle, I did think after posting, it was just a random height while helitaping, I don't ride it that high. No 29er to my knowledge.
flyingmonkeycorps - black 06 frame with DHX coil, from a bloke who mysteriously missed out any 40's while counting the cash? 😳 If so yes, how did you get on with it? I take it its still going strong then? Too short and too much bike for me.
I will indeed report back when it arrives, I won't ask what you paid, lets just both stay happy.
Ah, i though saddle was at optimum height, as you were
daveh - sounds like the one, I'm pretty sure we went for a ride round Wharncliffe (you on your Rocky Ridge, me on a Stiffee) when I came to pick it up.
I really enjoyed it, also found it a little bit short and it was probably a size too big for me too, but I had great fun on it around the Peak, Lakes and Alps. Far as I know it's still going strong, I think it's been powdercoated (possibly blue) now and had at least one more trip to the Alps...
LOL , it didn't take long for the 29er brigade to come sniffing!
Well done sir, someone bought a new bike and it has 26 " wheels ! (The shock, the horror)
Grapil arrives at the Dealer on Thurs, hopefully Ill have it in time for some easter fun!
Looks lovely- low-slung too
rOcKeTdOg - Member
Nice, looks tall, do they do a 29er version?
For the 29er lovers
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now that is a sorted 29er.
Forks need dropping to 120mm
For the 29er lovers
It looks like a full suss road bike. Not a fan of 29'ers. Although that frame looks noice.
hora - Member
For the 29er lovers
It looks like a full suss road bike. Not a fan of 29'ers.
Each to their own, but...... how the **** does that look like a road bike ???
Grapil arrives at the Dealer on Thurs, hopefully Ill have it in time for some easter fun!
If only, I've only managed the one ride, even if the snow disappears it'll still be a disaster zone.
Hora- without wishing to seem like a troll perhaps you should consider one, it's too early to tell but I'm hopeful it's going to ride a bit like my c456 but without the battering.
Pyga, never heard of that, looks a very nice piece of kit. I dare not try a 29er now, in case I like them!
daveh...new bike looks nice.
Those standard Rubber Queens are pants. I tried a pair and couldn't believe how bad they were, they didn't grip anything. I rode the new track at Parkwood Springs last year, and they didn't really grip the hard packed surface...at all. Properly sketchy. Admittedly, I am comparing them to Maxxis High Rollers ( Super Tacky front, 60a rear).
Just changed to Hans Dampf's and I'm well impressed with them.
Daveh how much do you weigh?
That Pyga frame is sweet!
Itching for a go on a Pyga oneten and a Banshee Prime at the moment. Both look really sorted but I've never tried a FS 29er (though I'm loving my rigid Karate Monkey)
Daveh how much do you weigh?
A lady never tells! In recent years between a very rare 14 stone and a hopefully not to be repeated 17.5 stone. Presently I'm at a baby induced 16 stone (it's not just the women who put on weight!). Why'd you ask?
I had a theory on the c456. Some riders said rigid others not. I thought it could be partly rider weight. Im 97kgs of pure pork and never felt beat up. Maybe had to be a certain weight to overcome (?) the rigidity?! I felt it was very compliant!
Bregante - Member
Itching for a go on a Pyga oneten and a Banshee Prime at the moment. Both look really sorted but I've never tried a FS 29er (though I'm loving my rigid Karate Monkey)
I demo'd quite a few 29er FS a few weeks ago at a Leisure Lakes demo day, looking forward to having a go on the Pyga
I'd certainly agree with your theory hora, I did a bit of road biking a couple of years back and if a frame was described as stiff, it'd be fine. If it was described as comfy, it'd be like a wet noodle. I reckon the 'trail buzz' ride of the c456 is pretty good, better than most Ali frames, but when you hit bigger stuff you know about it. I think I'm just going soft in my old age.
Agree. I need to see a Chiropracter again as I feel stiff allover. Just an annual thing then Im fine.
77kg, my mate's C456, that I rode for 20 miles, was stiff as a screwdriver. Hated it.
2nd ride this evening, still not much the wiser tbh owing to, er, trail obstacles. 750 bars and dropped stem much better, no need for a shorter stem as the steering is nice and speedy. Still feeling very nice but need a proper ride to really tell.
Trail obstacle (its not the side of the trail, the trail runs straight into it!):
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Grapil arrived today, minus the reverb which will be along in a week or so. I'll be getting it built tonight and hopefully maiden voyage tomorrow. Pics to follow as im changing a few bits over, including mud tyres 😉
I thought you must have bottled it!! Looking forward to hearing your thoughts before judgement day (WMB trail bike of the year test out next Tues) ;-). Conditions here still too bad to run up against my/it's limits!
No, I was just rather optimistic about delivery times! Ha. I will most definitely report back. Heading down to Dorset tomorrow so Im hopeful its reasonably dry and snow-less.
You must have ridden it by now. I guess it must have exploded or been so fast you broke free of gravity.....
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New Grapil has been unboxed, tweaked and unfortunately not had much of a chance to ride despite of good weather at the weekend. I was moving house so basically had a quick blast down the road. First thoughts are good, and echo what you've said Dave, super stiff at the back, angles feel great and with the 740 bars fitted it feels like it will be great on the descents. i'll get out for a proper ride at the weekend. My local trails round Brighton will be well suited to the bike I reckon. Oh and a Rock shox reverb will be here soon too although not sure how you route it as there seems to be only one guide on the top tube which usually takes the front mech? Ive changed it to 1x10 but may go back as I miss how quiet the bike was. Maybe my superstar guide needs tweaking? what you think?
[img] http://www.flickr.com/photos/93361362@N02/8634549800/ ][img] http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8247/8634549800_161c0810c5.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/93361362@N02/8634549800/ ][img] http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8247/8634549800_161c0810c5.jp g"/> [/img][/url] [url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/93361362@N02/8634549800/ ]GRAPIL CLOSE UP[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/93361362@N02/ ]robbonzo[/url], on Flickr[/img]
[img] http://www.flickr.com/photos/93361362@N02/8633443295/ ][img] http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8382/8633443295_9fc24724c7.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/93361362@N02/8633443295/ ][img] http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8382/8633443295_9fc24724c7.jp g"/> [/img][/url] [url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/93361362@N02/8633443295/ ]GRAPIL FRONT[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/93361362@N02/ ]robbonzo[/url], on Flickr[/img]
Way cooler than mine! 🙁 I've ordered a bit of colour for the front end though to perk it up a bit. Were your rubber queens folding? For the reverb I tried a number of combinations but settled on clipped to the top tube front mount, over the shock, thru the GT style triple triangle and up to the reverb. Its neat and works well.
Yeah pretty sure they're the std folding ones, I haven't tried them as went straight to mud tyres - the mud king on the back is excellent by the way. Tbh I had a Mountain king 2.4 folding on my other bike and I wasnt sure about it, I think you've got to go for the black chilli ones, and I really like the Protection casing on the mud king too. No punctures with that, and the casing seems to deflect hits really well.
Forgive me if im being dense but how does the reverb clip to the top mount, if the guide is only wide enough for one cable?
Nice bikes, simple and unfussy. How well do they pedal?
Only a quick blast so far, DaveH is probably better placed to comment, but it seemed to climb really well, just getting on with it. My other bike is a Morewood Shova single pivot with 135 QR, and it was very stiff compared to that, not surprising I guess.
Oh and with the changes it weighs 28.6 lbs. not too bad. 😮
That Pyga thingummy may have just converted me... Actually quite want!
Clip wasn't the best word I could have used, tie wrapped I should have said. The dropper routing is on the downtube which a) makes no sense and b) is too long a route for the reverb hose!
My only other experience of full suss is a heckler and pedalling is night and day compared to that, there's no need for propedal as far as I'm concerned, just leave it fully open and bob still isn't an issue. Had a good ride at Sherwood at the weekend, the RQs made a lot more sense on the dry stuff but I still wasn't able to push as hard as I'd have liked as I'd blown my legs on a road ride the day before! I have ordered a shorter stem though to get the front end as I like it.
A bit more info: the std front wheel weighs the same near enough as my pro2/DT 5.1 but the std rear wheel is over 1lb heavier than my pro2/DT 5.1/34t XT cassette rear wheel!
Thanks for the replies, think I might need to get a demo.
Nice one Dave, I'd be interested to see how yours is looking once you've pimped it a bit. I think it would make a great bike for enduros too.
@Fathomer, drop the guys at plush hill cycles an email, I got mine from them and they were really helpful. They have a demo bike - in the shropshire area too.
So everyone who is asking about a Pyga. we do have a demo bike so if you want a go then get in touch. It's currently at Singletrack mag but will be back soon. We will also have a OneTwenty650 demo back too.
Just beware, once you ride one you will have to buy one. Yes they are that good.
Check out www.r53sport.com for contact details.
Here we go then, changes complete.
Pro2/DT5.1 wheelset with tubeless Hans Dampfs
RS Reverb
Bontrager RXL saddle (cos I have one on my road bike, it was cheap and at 150g it offsets the Reverb a little)
780mm Answer Pro taper bars (splash of colour!)
70mm Whyte stem
Lockon grips
XT cassette
Saint pedals
30.2 lbs on Weight Watcher scales (super accurate 🙂 !)
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what chainring size are yo using for the 1x10.
i am waiting for mt grapil 10 to be delivered and am planning to go 1x10. however, because its got a sram chainset the BCD is 120 and the smallest chainring i can use is a 36. will this be too big
I had a 34T on mine but gone to 32 which feels spot on.