Presumably all the other Labour pillocks we see parading themselves across the media these days aren't PROPER Labour either to the likes of ernie and TJ.

They're not proper Labour to me, either.

Politicians in "massaging the data for their own means" shocker…

Change the **** record TJ. its not as if labour are above reproach is it?

It's a key advantage of being in opposition – it means that it's slightly easier win "king of the castle" when playing on the moral tor. Labour destroyed the tories (who were doing a damn good job at it themselves) in the mid nineties. I actually came on here to point out the shameful abuse of statistics by Grayling and his idiots in the shadow home secretary's team, but ernie beat me to it. CallMeDave and his team are not only failing to win that higher ground, but are dismal and clueless in their attempts to mount a decent challenge to take it – I wonder why…they've taken so many U-turns in the past few weeks they don't even know which direction they're facing anymore.

there's massaging and there's completely going against the guidance of the NSO (National Statistics Office)

We'll not be getting anything like democracy until all company donations are banned. Companies don't vote, therefore they should butt out of the electoral process.

…..and the tories will agree to that, right about the same time the Labour movement agree to a cap on Union donations

Perhaps the common-sense approach would be to simply ban all political parties.

Or is that a tad too radical ?

ban all political parties.

Gus – as a "liberal"* Id whole-heartedly agree. But I dont quite see how the preclusion of an organised party structure would help your socialist ideal to power?

* I appreciate the paradox of a liberal applauding a banning, but it is for the greater diversification of democracy. Means to an end 😉

Stoner – Member
epic – and the tories will agree to that, right about the same time the Labour movement agree to a cap on Union donations, since they dont vote either…

I know 🙁

Ernie may have the best idea.

I dont quite see how the preclusion of an organised party structure would help your socialist ideal to power?

Yeah, I know what you mean…………… 😐

But sod "socialism"…………let's go straight to an autonomous communistic society ! 😀

…….after we've slaughtered all of the bourgeoisie – of course.

I am but a humble farmer comrade… 🙁

autonomous communistic society

Yeah. That'll work.

autonomous communistic society

It's a bit like Grange Hill, but without the heroin.

I am but a humble farmer comrade…

Are you ? A property owning class enemy ? ………..well I'll be …… I never realised.

OK, I'll have a little think……..I'll come back to you on that one, if I may.

Grayling = [GCSE maths] FAIL.

Ashcroft who bankrolls the tory party was supposed to be a UK resident in 2000 following his peerage. Since then the tory party has refused to say if he has or not. Now the information Commissioner has said they have to confirm his tax status.

Clearly there is something to hide or Callmedave would have released this information – after all its fairly straightforward.

So – did Ashcroft lie about his tax status? Has his millions that has kept the party afloat been illegally donated?

Is Hague in his back pocket?

Is this Tory corruption again?

Who to believe?

The liers who get money this way?
Or the liers who tried to get Unions public funding (so the unions could then continue to bankroll Labour).

Or another way..
The liers
or the incompetent, murderers of almost 100,000 civilians and downright corrupt?

TJ- What are you going to chose?

Stoner – Member

epic – and the tories will agree to that, right about the same time the Labour movement agree to a cap on Union donations, since they dont vote either…

If you remember the Tories when last in power tried to stop union contributions by insisting on rather onerous continual votes for the political levy. More people now pay the political levy than before this mendacious piece of legislation.

The political levy does not all go to labour.

Hora – WTF are you on about?

Or the liers who tried to get Unions public funding (so the unions could then continue to bankroll Labour).

Never heard this one before.

I hold no brief for Labour and do not attempt to defend where they are wrong. However the continual love in with the Tory party on here needs a bit of tempering with reality. It needs to be pointed out what an inept, mendacious and corrupt bunch they are.

Ashcroft is clearly one of the most corrupt politicians for a long time. He personally bankrolls the tory party with money he has made thru tax avoidance. He has corrupted the government of Belize. He has tainted the tory party. He is a liar and he should be removed from all political influence.

Can one of the toryboys on here defend Cameron / Osbournes economic policy? That is if you know what it is this week?

Once again the latest Davos summmit backed Browns economic policies has left Cameron floundering again – hence the latest U turn – the 4th ? Or is it the fifth since the economic crisis?

He is a liar and he should be removed from all political influence.

Mandelson. Blair. Brown. Vaz. Etc.

CaptainFlashheart – Member

Presumably all the other Labour pillocks we see parading themselves across the media these days aren't PROPER Labour either to the likes of ernie and TJ.

They're not proper Labour to me, either.

Most of my friends consider me rather a wishy washy liberal.

As I have said many times I am no labour supporter. My vote normally goes to other parties but not always.

CFH – I don't disagree completly. Brown is no liar and I think Blair is deluded but sincere( is that better or worse???). Mandelson is just foul, mendacious and a cancer on politics and Vaz thick and vengeful.

I do like the way the only defense of Ashcroft you and the other ttoryboys can make is to attack Labour. Can't defend the indefensible? 😀

I have no need to, TJ. Thus far, as Stoner put correctly on the first page, he has done nothing wrong. So, why do I have to defend anything?

Theres also the "Union modernisation fund"
It uses taxpayers' money to give to the Unions to "modernise" through the Union modernisation fund. And then the unions give it back to the Labour Party in the form of donations.

I do like the way the only defense of Ashcroft you and the other ttoryboys can make is to attack Labour. Can't defend the indefensible?

Well it looks like you can.

Brown is no liar and I think Blair is deluded but sincere…..

🙄

Find an example of Brown lying. Not opinion where yo differ from him but fact.

Blair – no doubt he told untruths. My opinion is that he genuinely believes what he says – he is deluded rather than mendacious. That may actually be worse. I can't stand him.

Mandelson is a lying toad with the scruples of a ..a ..I can't think of anything low enough

CFH – you are an intelligent man. How can you believe that? We will see when the various investigations are complete but if he is clean why the refusal to give the information?

The public should be allowed to know whether a wealthy Conservative backer pays taxes in the UK, the Information Commissioner has ruled.

Does he pay tax in the UK as he said he would?

Is he registered to vote in the UK?

Two simple questions he needs to answer ( amongst other things)

Have you read what the prime minister of Belize has to say about him?

Come on – you can do better than that. I may have to bookmark this thread to see if you eat your words when his lying and corruption is exposed without any equivocation

Hora – the money that unions pay to various political bodies and lobbying groups (mainly but not exclusively labour party) comes from the political levy. As a union member you have to opt in to pay this small amount of money and it is ringfenced and kept separate from other funds. Most but not all union members pay it.

Find an example of Brown lying. Not opinion where yo differ from him but fact.

What like this kind of fact?

I think Blair is deluded but sincere

Can you not read roper.

I do not claim that to be a fact " I think" or "I believe" means its my opinion.
Now find a lie that Brown told.. Not where your opinion is different from his but where the facts are different from what he said.

Easy to do for Blair Mandelson and Vaz. rather harder for Brown.

TJ – I have no idea what the answers to the questions that you raise, but they are irrelevant as what is relevant is whether he had complied with the undertaking that he gave confidentially to this government. The Press don't know what he undertook, neither do I and neither do you so it may be better to judge once the facts are in the open which they will be in the near future.

As far as the Tory economic policy is concerned I will leave it to Stephanie Flanders as linked on the previous page to summarise

Rightly or wrongly, both men [Cameron and Osborne] believe that cutting the deficit quicker and deeper than Labour plans – starting in 2010 – could actually help the recovery, by preventing a costly run on government debt, and sharply higher long-term interest rates as a result. By and large, they've struggled to get this highly respectable – but deeply counter-intuitive – idea across to the British people. But yesterday, Mr Cameron had a bloomin' good try.

They have a different view as to what is important, we will never know who is right and who is wrong, economists are still arguing about the 1981 Budget.

Can you not read roper.
I do not claim that to be a fact " I think" or "I believe" means its my opinion.
Now find a lie that Brown told.. Not where your opinion is different from his but where the facts are different from what he said.

Lay off the insults TJ. They do more harm to your display of intelligence than they do to me. Also you believe that Gordon brown has never lied, you do not know this as truth.

hora – Member

It uses taxpayers' money to give to the Unions to "modernise" through the Union modernisation fund.

As far as I am aware, it was Thatcher who first came up with the idea of giving taxpayers' money to the unions to "modernise".

The Trade Union Act 1984, gave provision for state money to be given to trade unions for postal balloting – not a cheap operation by anyone's standards.

I don't think you can blame the 'New Labour liars' for that.

Daily Mail LOL im not a Sun reader

So *three* labour MP's and one tory peer get charged?

I am surprised, I hoped for more like 50 mps to be charged. were the tories just better at fiddling? My impression was the labour ones fiddled pennies for trivia but the tories got thousands for duck ponds. 4 being charged is pathetic. should be dozens of all colours.

No one comes out of this well apart from gorgeous George Galloway

So *three* labour MP's and one tory peer get charged?

And since the party in government is the Labour Party, I think we can safely say that we don't have a corrupt political system.

Unlike Italy for instance, where the first thing the Italian Prime Minister did on coming to power, was to a pass law making him immune from prosecution.

So we are indeed lucky.

What … nobody has blamed Maggie yet !!

I blame Thatcher.

Here comes the new boss
Same as the old boss

and the row over Ashcrofts tax status continues.

Early this week Cameron said "For years all parties have taken the same view that someone's tax status is a matter between them and the Inland Revenue. That needs to change,"

Howver when questioned on Ashcroft a tory spokesman referred to What Cameron said in Decenmber "Lord Ashcroft's tax status is a matter between him and the Inland Revenue."

George Young said ""He is in the same position as a number of Labour peers who are non-domiciled and who fund the Labour party."

In 2000 ashcroft promised to give up his "non Dom" status and pay tax in Britain No one can find any record of him having done so.

The company he uses to bankroll the tory party Bearwood Corporate Services he has not declared on the register of interests.

So Callmedave – which of the statements represent tory policy?

So Torys – which is it to be? Why won't they come clean? Is this man corrupt or totally corrupt? Without him the tories would be bankrupt.

I'm dreading the Tories. They will lie, cheat, fiddle, make a mockery of justice and generally have an extended w### in the faces of the electorate.

Trouble is, the Labour party have been doing exactly that since 1997.

Where are you now Mr Fawkes?

surely the message from the ashcroft story is that political party funding is inherently flawed, electioneering is an expensive business donors on the scale of ashcroft expect a return on their investments
He wants power and influence with the most powerful man in the country so So hes buying it, doesnt sound very much like democracy

Belive me, with the Money Tone is now raking in , it won't be long before he goes offshore in some tax efficient way. Whats wrong with playing the whistle FFS?