[Closed] More Tory Lies?

Just the same as Labour lies then........allegedly

I thought I would quote a Tory paper so as not to be accused of bias sources. Guardian reader here.

Toilet Paper reader here.....

Guardian reader here.

Leather elbow pads on your tweed suit?

The problem with this article is that it flings around the terms resident and domicile as if they mean the same thing. They don't, they are two completely different things. I don't know whether he has broken any rules but I would be surprised.

If he has broken no rules then why they lack of clarity from The tories? People have been trying to get this info for 3 years.

If he is clean then come clean. Myself I am certain he is completely corrupt and will have been avoiding taxes.

ashcrofts donations would not have been illegal under current legislation regardless of his tax status as they are donated from UK registered corporate entities. The noises from the Labour government on changing the rules to out him haven't been followed through as it would severely disrupt their own income stream. The Tories have pegged their cooperation on any new law to a legal cap on Union donations.

The offer of transparency on his status was merely to show some willing. The fact he has reneged on them is a moral matter not a legal one.

Now, about Gordon's private £50k polling slush fund that has gone un-registered in the members interests register...?? (and that is illegal).

FWIW a Guardian, Prospect, Private Eye and Spectator reader.

And is [url=

David Cameron, at some old rave (about 15 seconds in)? 😀

Pretty sure it ain't, but quite funny, all the same. Some of his circle involved in organising big parties in 88/89, iirc.

More seriously, Ashcroft is shady. Never [i]quite[/i] sure what to make of him buying up VCs, either...

comrade - giving the Imperial War Museum £5m to enable them to display his collection of VC's is so un-philanthopic, dont you think!? 😉

Stoner this thread is in reply to the thread about that. The truth will out over that as well. Nowt proven yet.

His donations may well be illegal. Under investigation at teh moment as the companies he donates thru appears to be a shell company created for that purpose and Ashcroft himself is not registered to vote in the UK so he cannot donate either.

If he is clean then why the lack of clarity?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-blue-baron-how-the-tories-rely-on-ashcroft-1812270.html

If he is not UK domiciled then he and others have mislead parliament. Lots more to come on this story. Wait and see.

I've found the Tory u-turn on their deficit reduction plans very amusing this week.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/stephanieflanders/2010/02/camerons_nixon_moment.html

Its highly amusing that one capt. Shows how little clue they have. So many U turns that does anyone know which way they face now?

[i]giving the Imperial War Museum £5m to enable them to display his collection of VC's[/i]

I'm aware of the scale of his, er, generousity (thereby keeping them "in country"). There's just something about the [url= http://www.victoriacrossheroes.com/collection.html ]accompanying rhetoric[/url] that makes me rather uneasy.

[i]"Part of Lord Ashcroft's general interest in bravery...."[/i]

Spare me.

there's nothing "unclean" about not paying UK tax on overseas earnings, it's just not politically appealing to announce to the world that's what the party's main bankroller is doing. You're trying to contrive illegal activity where there is none. These guys dont get stinky rich and then drop the ball on something so straightforward. Any press coverage is more than likely opposition plant.

He certainly hasnt mislead parliament. He may well have mislead the honours committee though about his tax-domicile intentions, but that's not the same thing.

You can huff and puff all you like TH, but if Ashcroft is convicted in a court of law, I will eat SFB's shorts.

I shall go and find the Gordon thread - pity I missed it while working today...

These eight heroes are very different people, with very different strengths and frailties, but all share an inspirational courage that Gordon Brown celebrates in these fascinating and moving portraits.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Courage-Eight-Portraits-Gordon-Brown/dp/0747565325

spare me too 😉

And Labour on the other hand are soooo fabulous.....no U turn on Afghanistan, Iraq or giving the banks all our money then making US pay for it.........t'rific

I dinnae care much for Brown, comrade. Though I feel somewhat sorry for the great clunking fist - on account of him having wanted the job for [i]so[/i] long, and then...

I read the title as 'More Troy Lees'
it should have been
disappointing

10p income tax uturn anyone ?

"45 minutes to launch strike on UK" - the mother of all NuLab lies.

Stoner - I think you will be found to be wrong on Ashcroft. He has broken the law I am sure. If it is proven as I am sure it will be that the donations were channelled thru a shell company then the donations are illegal.

Stories opposition plants? In the mail and the telegraph?

you never heard of Will Lewis and Balls' being best chums?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/its-not-a-splash-its-balls-1686267.html

The Telegraph hasnt been the blue rinsed standard bearer for years TJ. Do keep up! 🙄

He has broken the law I am sure.

I knew we didnt need a justice system. All we need is TJ and his chippy politics to sort out matters. SO much more efficient...

Captain Flashheart to the forum please, Captain Flashheart. Thread waiting. Thank you.

😉

OFFICIAL NOTICE: As of 05-02-2010 things that appear in The Daily Mail are now to be considered true.

We've always been at war with Eastasia.

OFFICIAL NOTICE ENDS.

[i]All we need is TJ and his chippy politics[/i]

Disliking Ashcroft is not what I would regard as chippy.

Captain Flashheart to the forum please

Oh no, spare us from prolonging yet another of these STW "my party is marginally less venal than your party" wrangles, please.

Complete with the obligatory selective quotes and recollections, of course.

Why does pointing out Labour mistakes cancel out Tory mistakes? Or offer some kind of balance? Just because someone criticises one party doesn't automatically mean they are pro their opponents.

As I said earlier, there is a load of rubbish written on the subject of Ashcroft because the term resident and domiciled are used interchangeably. The Information Commssioner in his Press Release seems to suggest the undertaking about residence however as the undertaking was private it is pretty difficult to judge until it has been publicised which it now will be. Whether he has met the undertaking can then be judged.

My guess is that this will play out as follows. I am sure Ashcroft will have had a far better understanding of the meaning of the undertaking than whoever dealt with it from the other side and therefore will have complied with it. However, it is quite likely that the wording will not achieve what was hoped. In this case, whilst the government's fault through incompetence, some mud will stick because he will have complied with the letter rather than spirit of the undertaking.

I think this is why the Tories have been keen not to address it full on but it will be a pretty small victory for Labour.

"45 minutes to launch strike on UK" - the mother of all NuLab lies.

"45 minutes to launch strike on UK" ? ....... I've never heard that one 😕

There [i]was[/i] an attempt to exaggerate the perceived threat which Iraq allegedly posed.

But I think you have just exaggerated the exaggeration ..........well done ! 😀

More Tory lies :

Sir Michael Scholar head of the UK Statistics Authority, gave the Tory shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling, a rare and extraordinary rebuke -

[i]Dear Mr Grayling

VIOLENT CRIME STATISTICS

I do not wish to become involved in political controversy, but I must take issue with what you said yesterday about violent crime statistics, which seems to me likely to damage public trust in official statistics.

The Statistics Authority's views on this matter are set out in the Note below.

I would be grateful if you would take account of our views in your future use of, or comments upon, these official statistics.

I am sending a copy of this letter to the Leader of the Opposition, Rt. Hon. David Cameron MP, to the Home Secretary, Rt. Hon Alan Johnson MP, and to Dr. Tony Wright MP, Chair of the Public Administration Select Committee.

Yours sincerely

Sir Michael Scholar KCB[/i]

[url= http://timesonline.typepad.com/crime/2010/02/stats-chief-gives-chris-grayling-a-clip-round-the-ear.html ]An extraordinary rebuke for the Shadow Home Secretary over his abuse of crime stats to claim the existence of 'broken Britain'[/url]

Johnners and Stoner (first post above) sum it up rather well.

As to the 45 minutes, I seem to remember that it was alleged that British troops etc in Cyprus were within range of those fabled WsMD.

Change the ****ing record TJ. its not as if labour are above reproach is it?

Yes Captain, Cyprus was mentioned, but not the UK. As I said.......an exaggeration of the exaggeration 😀

Change the **** record TJ. its not as if labour are above reproach is it?

I think that is [i]exactly[/i] what TJ has done.........."changed the record".

The Tories are not above reproach ........they are also a bunch of liars.

Not much difference between any party, they all have their, um, secrets.

We'll not be getting anything like democracy until all company donations are banned. Companies don't vote, therefore they should butt out of the electoral process.

Donations should be allowed only from registered voters in the electorate.

If this means the parties can't afford advertising etc, even better. They may actually have to come and speak to us.

GG - I was reading about their use of crime statistics this evening with disgust.

Mark Easton (The only man at the BBC who can add up) has covered it really well.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/02/conservative_estimates_on_viol_1.html

The only thing to get me more pissed off than tribal partisanship is the shoddy use of statistics 😉

epic - and the tories will agree to that, right about the same time the Labour movement agree to a cap on Union donations, since they dont vote either...

I notice that pissing on His Holiness the Tony has just dropped off the radar screens...

I know he wasn't, like, PROPER labour. Presumably all the other Labour pillocks we see parading themselves across the media these days aren't PROPER Labour either to the likes of ernie and TJ.

Never mind. CallMeDave and his chums will be in power soon so we can all forget about what a useless bunch of twonks the current lot have been and really get stuck into the Eton Rifles whilst old New Old Labour spend the next few years eating out their own innards in the wilderness...

A Plague On..., you know.

Presumably all the other Labour pillocks we see parading themselves across the media these days aren't PROPER Labour either to the likes of ernie and TJ.

They're not proper Labour to me, either.

Politicians in "massaging the data for their own means" shocker...

Change the **** record TJ. its not as if labour are above reproach is it?

It's a key advantage of being in opposition - it means that it's slightly easier win "king of the castle" when playing on the moral tor. Labour destroyed the tories (who were doing a damn good job at it themselves) in the mid nineties. I actually came on here to point out the shameful abuse of statistics by Grayling and his idiots in the shadow home secretary's team, but ernie beat me to it. CallMeDave and his team are not only failing to win that higher ground, but are dismal and clueless in their attempts to mount a decent challenge to take it - I wonder why...they've taken so many U-turns in the past few weeks they don't even know which direction they're facing anymore.

there's massaging and there's completely going against the guidance of the NSO (National Statistics Office)

We'll not be getting anything like democracy until all company donations are banned. Companies don't vote, therefore they should butt out of the electoral process.

.....and the tories will agree to that, right about the same time the Labour movement agree to a cap on Union donations

Perhaps the common-sense approach would be to simply ban all political parties.

Or is that a tad too radical ?