[Closed] Lakes nuclear dump?

I'd be happy to have it in the Chilterns. They're even putting in a new railway that could be used to bring the waste!

I'd be even happier to see it "burnt" in a new generation of nukes but at least if we put it into storage it'll be there for when the oil runs out.

Sounds like the usual nimbyism from retired white settlers.

Ask the real locals, who I'm sure would be very much for the increased employment opportunities helping retain young adults in the area and supporting a rural economy.

Same nonsense going on over my side of the solway with wind turbines...

Its always struck me as odd the Nimby thing, its normally only people that it affects that care, so that would mainly be people who live there! Other people aren't generally going to campaign on your behalf

"Dump"?

You mean "Repository"

Lets store it under London.
Plenty of room there.
Or Surrey. S'nice and quiet.

See who complains then.

relevant link: http://what-if.xkcd.com/29/

Without the nuclear industry, all that's left for normal working Cumbrian's is serving tea [on minimum wage] dressed as a character from Beatrix Potter

Or farming.

I read somewhere that the site could be 4 times the size of sellafield which is huge. It seems daft to **** over an area of one of the most beautiful national parks in the world, just to keep a few local people (me) in a job.

Just build some more reactors or something.

Why can't it go down unused coal mines?

My fav bit is with Allerdale and Cumbria County Council: they were against the zip wire up Honister but they're looking pretty keen on an underground dump. It's reassuring to know they've got my best interests at heart 😯

Why can't it go down unused coal mines?

Geological stability/permeability - it needs to be somewhere very stable with a very slow groundwater flow. Coal mines tend to be the exact opposite, whilst igneous formations (such as on the west coast of Cumbria) tend to be very stable.

Sounds like the usual nimbyism from retired white settlers.

Ask the real locals, who I'm sure would be very much for the increased employment opportunities helping retain young adults in the area and supporting a rural economy

The repository will be hundreds of metres underground. The surface footprint will be very small.

Hey - send it to the moon - nothing would go wrong (Space 1999) LOL 🙂

The repository will be hundreds of metres underground. The surface footprint will be very small.

Anyone interested should have a read of this presentation which puts forward a not-entirely unconvincing view of the possible impact of the infrastructure needed for first the testing, then the implementation of a storage facility based around Gillerthwaite in Ennerdale.

Why can't it go down unused coal mines?

+1 Stick it all in Yorkshire.

Though it stinks of Nimbyism, down in Devon/cornwall we get a lot of it. Some rich tits from London buy a nice weekend house, then get their stink up when Tesco want to build a superstore that would provide a couple of hundred jobs, Wind farms bringing in contract or a new road.

On the subject of background radioation I'm sure the granite of Dartmoor would kick out more than that would.

Hardly recent news either - national repository has been discussed for donkeys years...

the fact it is never done in a highely populated area shows that no one really wants this near them for obvious reasons [ which you may disagree with if you wish] but they are obvious.

Really? We store a fair amount of active material bang smack in the middle of Plymouth.

To me it makes sense to store in Cumbria. The geology is right and the low population reduces risk. Whether or not you agree with the ethics behind nuclear power, at the end of the day, it has to go somewhere.

Got a mate thats already laying concrete for the above ground facilities - its on the boil.

Think hes working out Whitehaven way, bit hush-hush but had a few and beans were spilled ...

Personally I think the power stations and repository should be close to the source... I mean if it is that safe and clean what is the problem with putting it near London?

Am I right in thinking we already have 35000 tons of waste?

Got a mate thats already laying concrete for the above ground facilities - its on the boil.

Deep waste repository is many years from construction. There is a Low Level Waste Repository near Drigg which he could be working on... Not hush hush though, and neither will the deep repository be once the decision is made about where to put it. If you're particularly interested see here:
[url= http://http://www.nda.gov.uk/ukinventory/waste/long-term-waste-higher.cfm ]Current status of Higher Level Waste Disposal in UK[/url]

Am I right in thinking we already have 35000 tons of waste?

Last inventory of UK nuclear waste was in 2010:
[url= http://http://www.nda.gov.uk/ukinventory/summaries/index.cfm ]2010 Waste Inventory[/url]

the fact it is never done in a highely populated area shows that no one really wants this near them for obvious reasons [ which you may disagree with if you wish] but they are obvious.

Do you know where the UK's nuclear warheads are manufactured?? 🙄

I reckon that we should have done it somewhere further North - rushed the job through and got the waste down there in the repository before the Scottish independence referendum! Your problem now boys 😀

This is terrible news and must be stopped

I'd encourage anyone who loves riding in the lakes to sign the following petition

http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/no-nuclear-dump-in-the-lake-district

I don't normally publicise such links, but 38Degrees are really good and have helped overturn some major things recently

Thanks

Jon

How exactly is an underground nuclear repository going to stop anyone riding their bikes in the Lakes?

This is terrible news and must be stopped

I'd encourage anyone who loves riding in the lakes to sign the following petition

Thanks

Jon

Serious question Jon, what should we do with the waste we've already accumulated and has no other disposal solution? Like it or not, we have nuclear waste. What do we do with it?

Playing devil's advocate somewhat but it will have NO impact on anyone who loves riding in the lake district, you won't see it, you won't know it's there and it won't have any impact on our day to day lives or those of our children's children's children etc. All the shoite that is pumped out of coal fired power stations or all the waste we bury in landfills (heavy metals, carcinogens, non-degradable hydrocarbon products etc etc) are all a much great and more immediate risk to our landscape and health.

Sounds like knee jerk reactionary drivel from you tbh nimbyism and white settlers - awesome use of logic.
As noted only those affecected complain.

the fact it is never done in a highely populated area shows that no one really wants this near them for obvious reasons [ which you may disagree with if you wish] but they are obvious.

or perhaps the geography and geology of these remote areas is the real reason these project are situated there in the first place.
You do know a similar exercise in Sweden had two towns virtually BIDDING to be the winner of the process!

Oh i like playing the guessing game about what folk i have never met feel about issues.

as you said only those "affected complain about these things" - guessing plenty in West Cumbria are delighted then! Unless you know otherwise...

Isle of Man would be a good place, same type of rock and easy to exclude from traveling if things go wrong and with clever engineering they could extract heat from the waste and turn it in to a tropical paradise, heaven knows it needs something to liven it up.

Well glow in the dark trees will make night riding easier 😀

Jokes aside...not read anything about it yet so am sitting on the fence until I have.

I did think we should consider using the Falklands for this kind of thing and then see if anyone still wanted to take it from us.

Seeing as nuclear waste is so inert and causes no problems to the population and will create jobs making a big hole in the countryside to bury it.

So why not use the

Isle of man,

Isle of white, or

Northern ireland,

nice little enclaves easily protected, and just move or leave the natives there to work with the stuff

boltonjon - Member

This is terrible news and must be stopped

I'd encourage anyone who loves riding in the lakes to sign the following petition

http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/no-nuclear-dump-in-the-lake-district /p>

I don't normally publicise such links, but 38Degrees are really good and have helped overturn some major things recently

Thanks

Jon

somehow, i find myself on 38degrees mailing list.

increasingly, i feel inclined to ask to be removed from said list, it seems as if they're against anything happening anywhere ever, and that's just not a helpful way to behave.

this crap has to go somewhere, it makes some kind of sense to me that it goes somewhere it (or the industry required) is welcome.

it seems the only place with a sympathetic council is Cumbria - so here we are.

Yeah I removed myself from their list for the very same reason.

Yet they will not allow a zip wire.

or perhaps the geography and geology of these remote areas is the real reason these project are situated there in the first place.

You do know a similar exercise in Sweden had two towns virtually BIDDING to be the winner of the process!

As someone near enough to be affected by an accident at Sellafield and what a slight breeze might bring, I do find myself recognising the stuff has to go somewhere but thinking London/the home counties would be ideal. After all they get the majority of the nice so only fair they get this too surely?

We should sell it to Iran, get some third party to convince them they can make bombs out of it..

or sell it to the jocks, just say it's half price, and suggest they could maybe sell it on to Iran..

I'm sure they'd buy it all.

bury it in the shareholders back yards

Great, another ton thread.

Oh, "Lakes" 😳

Having read a bit on the website is west Cumbria really geologicaly suitable?

NIREX anyone? its all been discussed before and never been sorted. Wonder if it will be built before the stupid new railway thingy.

This is terrible news and must be stopped
I'd encourage anyone who loves riding in the lakes to sign the following petition

Thanks

Jon

[img] [/img]

OK some simple things.

Where do you think most of the waste already is?
What should we do with it?

Serious answers only?

Former resident of the area and worked for the big bad factory.

So if the repository doesn't go near the majority of our waste we are all happy with transporting it across country by rail for a generation? After all rail accidents never happen, and rail lines pass nowhere near urban centres.

We make waste to generate power we all use, its time we took responsibility for immobilising it safely to protect future generations and produce a safe ultimate disposal route if nuclear does become a fuel of the future.

Where do you think most of the waste already is?

Sellafield and Drigg

What should we do with it?

Store it somewhere deep under ground in a geologically stable area

Serious answers only?

You have clearly been in Oz too long if you're already ending statements with an upwards inflection, even through the medium of internet fora 😉

Shhhhhhhh!
Don't tell them where it is - they'll all stop visiting for fear of growing an extra arm...

So if the repository doesn't go near the majority of our waste we are all happy with transporting it across country by rail for a generation? After all rail accidents never happen, and rail lines pass nowhere near urban centres.

We make waste to generate power we all use, its time we took responsibility for immobilising it safely to protect future generations and produce a safe ultimate disposal route if nuclear does become a fuel of the future.

Ennerdale is absolutely the most beautiful part of the lakes. You know, apart from the dirty great nuclear power station virtually in view of it.

But yeah, nuclear power. We can either stop using so much electricity or use nuclear power. It's a very simple choice.

The Lakes do have a bit of an earthquake habit - not massive ones I grant you, but they happen and we have had some significant ones over the last few years. Throw in the addition of fracking going on in Morecambe Bay on the Lancashire side, and the suggestions that operations may be extended to the Cumbrian side and up the west coast, which are potentially linked to increased incidents of earth tremors this isn't looking so clever.

Most of the people moving to the Lakes with money tend towards Windermere/Ambleside, not up the west coast. The transport links are not great, and not really ideal for transporting waste either. The main option is the train line that runs through several towns and villages, is unelectrified and really needing some significant investment.

Now if they were to offer us something in return... like the bridge between Barrow and Fleetwood to bring more investment into the west of Cumbria, and upgrade some of the roads to remove the dangerous bottlenecks, then perhaps we could see a fair deal. As it is we get dumped with the crud that no one else wants anywhere near them, in a location that is not the best and threatens some of the least developed areas of the National Park with so little benefit returned it is ridiculous.

Also - most of the jobs go to contractors who get to drive like knobbers over the fell roads at the end of shifts. Try being on Corney Fell 20 minutes after a shift change. So we don't really get the jobs benefits either.

Ennerdale is absolutely the most beautiful part of the lakes. You know, apart from the dirty great nuclear power station virtually in view of it.

Also - most of the jobs go to contractors who get to drive like knobbers over the fell roads at the end of shifts. Try being on Corney Fell 20 minutes after a shift change. So we don't really get the jobs benefits either.

The transport links are not great, and not really ideal for transporting waste either. The main option is the train line that runs through several towns and villages, is unelectrified and really needing some significant investment.

Well said Cap Kronos

Does anyone remember a news story about 2 years ago about the UK processing other peoples nuclear waste??

Sellafield currently reprocesses nuclear waste for 34 other countries

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/647981.stm

So, yes, all us power sapping Brits need our electricity - so we need a good source of power (nuclear or renewable - i'm happy either way)

However, why on earth should the UK Government risk one of our most spectacular national parks to build even more storage for nuclear waste??

For the record, i grew up in the shadow of Sellafield and fully understand the shite that place has pumped out over the years and the damage its caused to people, families and the environment

Now you lot can't rant as much as you want

Nimbyism aside we shouldn't be putting it in bad ground, regardless of whether the locals are up for it or there's a nearby nuclear plant. And there's a lot of conflicting claims on that for the geology of the lakes granite (and even the positive claims seem uncertain)

Find the best place- put it there.

As the crow flies i stay 30 miles from sellafield/drigg across the solway, as others have said that place and (every other nuclear plant) has released enough shite over the years and been massively subsidised by our tax money to keep it afloat, the nuclear industry and their lobbyists in this country are Machiavellian in their deceit, shut them all down and use the subsidy money to give every single home it's own solar panel system or electricity, air source heat pump for hot water and heating and industrial ground source heating where possible for housing estates, instead of having lights blazing in empty shop windows/office blocks etc at night pass new legislation that make it a criminal offence to waste electricity - how many town centres/retail parks are emblazoned with floodlights up and down the country - these burn a phenomenal amount of electricity, this may be taking it too far but i hope you get my point, there is a wanton waste of electricity in this country and i'm sure we could cut down by a massive amount if we really had the drive to do so.

Make nuclear redundant!

Does anyone remember a news story about 2 years ago about the UK processing other peoples nuclear waste??

Sellafield currently reprocesses nuclear waste for 34 other countries

We are currently returning HLW to Japan.

Like many industries the Nuclear Industry had a past, same as coal, oil, chemical, steel etc. It's also grown up over the years. Mining has left hundreds with disease and occupational injuries, asbestos has killed plenty and will carry on doing so and construction has claimed many lives and left others with major industries. The key is to learn from the past and move forward.

The majority of the waste that the UK needs to deal with is historic. It already exists, something needs to be done with it. The amount that ongoing nuclear generation will contribute is small.

The plan here to deal with waste is mostly about what is there.
http://www.sellafieldsites.com/solution/waste-management/ilw-treatment-and-storage/the-plan/
if we stopped generating today and accepted no more fuel this would still need doing.
There is no option to turn it off. The waste exists and it must be dealt with, it must then be stored. As above where should it be stored is a big question. However nowhere is not one of the answers.

As the crow flies i stay 30 miles from sellafield/drigg across the solway, as others have said that place and (every other nuclear plant) has released enough shite over the years and been massively subsidised by our tax money to keep it afloat, the nuclear industry and their lobbyists in this country are Machiavellian in their deceit, shut them all down and use the subsidy money to give every single home it's own solar panel system or electricity, air source heat pump for hot water and heating and industrial ground source heating where possible for housing estates, instead of having lights blazing in empty shop windows/office blocks etc at night pass new legislation that make it a criminal offence to waste electricity - how many town centres/retail parks are emblazoned with floodlights up and down the country - these burn a phenomenal amount of electricity, this may be taking it too far but i hope you get my point, there is a wanton waste of electricity in this country and i'm sure we could cut down by a massive amount if we really had the drive to do so.

Make nuclear redundant!

Perhaps we could use the money to teach you what a full stop is?

Grammar aside, the pollution caused by the nuclear industry is miniscule compared to that caused by the fossil fuel industry. I suggest you look there first if you want to reduce pollution. You can have as many solar panels, heat pumps and insulation as you can shake a stick at, but the majority of the UK's electricity is still generated by burning fossilised dead stuff, and that's a bit Dickensian, really.

Rusty Spanner - Member
Lets store it under London.
Plenty of room there.
Or Surrey. S'nice and quiet.

See who complains then.

Foolish comment But not surprised.
Pretty shocked to single out the Lakedistrict
one for its beauty/environment and also a massive threat to the tourist trade too.
Just doesn't make any sense

Just doesn't make any sense

Aside from its proximity to the location of the vast majority of nuclear waste in the country, its geology, and the established nuclear industry already there, you mean?

If nuclear was a threat to the tourist industry they'd be long gone - there has been nuclear work on the site of Sellafield since the 40s

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sellafield ]WTF there is nuclear in Cumbria, who would have thought it!![/url]

Some light reading

http://www.sellafieldsites.com/
http://www.nda.gov.uk/

Perhaps reading some of this may enlighten people. Sellafield holds most of the UK's nuclear waste and has done for a while. The National Low Level Waste repository is at Drigg just down the coast. You can seem most of this from the western fells.

It's not new, it's Cumbria the poor cousin of the Lake District that all the stuck up tourists don't visit.

Yes that will be it - I mean apart from that everyone would be desperate for one of those near them

Only two - that seems remarkably low for all of Sweden - its a geology problem isn't it rather than a popularity/risk thing I assume

Go look up the proposal. The geology must be right for a site full stop. Also most proposal like this get whittled down to a shortlist of 2 or 3 options - surely you don't seriously think there are only 2 places to store waste there!!!

After the technical considerations are met yes it does become a popularity thing. People are aware of the dramatised risk of nuclear, and after these towns saw the "real" risk i.e. proper statistically verified figures they were falling over each other to win the facility to their area to secure all the employment benefits etc etc.

As others have said this stuff must go somewhere and to shout sacrilege at it being built at the EDGE of the lakes is pretty poor IMO. Most folk would not even know it was there, yet alone pass round by that side of the lakes. The fact the geology is correct is the factor determining a site, and its proximity to sellafield, our waste processing plant makes total sense.

People should be aware that a nuclear dump has just been created in Dundee

People should be aware that a nuclear dump has just been created in Dundee

Well, I suppose there's no risk of it affecting tourism there 😉

Oh I don't know, I'm not far from RSS Discovery.

I'll open the window and see which way the winds blowing.

Yes lets store it some where ugly!

The need for a long term nuclear repository is as old as the hills they want to store it in. The fact that since the advent of the nuclear industry the search for the perfect geological formation to safely store it has proved fruitless means that they've had to scale back the ideals for what level of assurance can be given But its a bit late now the horse has already bolted to change our minds now.

I'm typing this not far from a nuclear power station that generates +2,000MKe at Heysham using a computer and drinking a nice hot cuppa.

I mean if it is that safe and clean what is the problem with putting it near London?

2) it's not geologically appropriate

3) land is expensive

4) labour is expensive

5) construction would disrupt more than two goats

As others have said this stuff must go somewhere and to shout sacrilege at it being built at the EDGE of the lakes is pretty poor IMO. Most folk would not even know it was there, yet alone pass round by that side of the lakes.

If they were building it at Sellafield then I doubt there would be much of a problem.

Calling halfway up Ennerdale the 'the edge' of the Lakes is stretching it a bit. I don't care/mind about the stuff once it's underground, what I am vehemently opposed is industrial clutter - the towers that would be needed above the shafts, the new roads on Ennerdale Fell - all affecting one of the most wonderful places in this country.

Sure, the hand of man can already be seen on Ennerdale, and perhaps it would be even better without the trees and the lake, but it lifts my heart when I hit the High Stile ridge or reach Looking Stead and see it.

http://www.jamesbellphotography.co.uk/blog/walks/haystacks-and-the-high-stile-ridge#more-669

(The panorama titled 'Looking into Ennerdale from High Crag' about 2/3rds of the way down. The most likely location for the site would be on the green strip just before the lake).

As this panorama clearly shows, the location of any site at Gillerthwaite would be clearly seen from both the Mosedale ridge and the High Stile ridge. It would be in a different league to the distant sprawl of Sellafield or the towns you can see from the Western Lakes.

I am told more suitable geological locations exist, but this one is favoured, perhaps because local populations are low, and this makes the council more easily rolled over.

I think it's crazy that they're even considering using Ennerdale as a nuclear waste dump given the history of aviation incidents that have taken place. Imagine if a plane crashed into a nuke stockpile! Unbelievable!

😆

Nukes are the power of the future. Alarmist NGOs have shrieked until it's regulated to the point of farce - see here for a run down of the real severity of a load of "secret" "radioactive" leaks reported by a cynical non-journalist. [url= http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/28/nuke_waste_spill_rob_edwards_strikes_again ]man admits responsibilty for bases biggest ever radioactive leak.[/url] We already saw that those pools are safe to SWIM in FFS!

All that "waste" is only waste in the context of an old reactor designed for producing bombs with a by product of electricity. To a modern reactor it's called "fuel". ALL of it. How useful and abundant is nuclear energy? Another xkcd for ya [url= http://xkcd.com/1162/ ]here.[/url]

There's more energy in the uranium in coal than the coal in coal. And coal, coal dust, and ash isn't even considered nuclear waste.

Another xkcd for ya here.

More energy density per kilo in fat than coal? We should just feed half of Burnley into a power station - we'd be sorted for years!

Coal dust, now there's a horrible thing

I don't care/mind about the stuff once it's underground, what I am vehemently opposed is industrial clutter - the towers that would be needed above the shafts, the new roads on Ennerdale Fell - all affecting one of the most wonderful places in this country.

Wasn't the plan to dig a tunnel from Sellafield? Sure, there may be some short-term survey infrastructure there, but why would it need a shaft?

Anyway, I do find it slightly bizarre that some people are so vehemently opposed to 'industrial clutter', when what makes up a lot of the lake district's views is another primary industry's clutter - farm machinery, fences, sheds etc.

when what makes up a lot of the lake district's views is another primary industry's clutter - farm machinery, fences, sheds etc.

I agree with you there, but that's mostly found scattered around the more populated valleys and below a certain altitude. Ennerdale has significantly less agricultural clutter.

While, hopefully, you'd be right about the shaft, in which case I would have zero objection, as the main facility would be above ground at Sellafield, this hasn't been finalised in a proposal, and there may be a need for a multiple facilities closer to the site (Source - official MRWS report).

The pdf link I posted earlier is from someone opposed to the project, and obviously needs to be taken in that vein, but I don't think that a site in Ennerdale is out of the question, and if it were to go ahead, his view of its impact seems pretty balanced.

I guess we need to look critically at the arguments of those for and against, including any claims for jobs likely to be created.

I guess we need to look critically at the arguments of those for and against, including any claims for jobs likely to be created.

I would encourage people to take a read of the NDA site and look what is where. How much of this stuff is already in Cumbria etc. The difference of being in a National Park is interesting in some ways, but as I used to cross the boundary 4-5 times on the way to work I'd find it hard to tell you what was in or out.

Also all the tourists that would avoid the area didn't really ever go there, Ennerdale and that side is mostly a locals only area as it's too far and takes too long for all these tourists to get there.

I'm not saying rip up the fells but just as above read the evidence not the propaganda.

I think it's certainly no bad thing that the vocal campaigners are bringing the whole thing under public scrutiny.

If it makes those designing an eventual scheme (assuming it turns out to be geologically suitable) more mindful of avoiding a surface site in Ennerdale, that's a major plus.

The Lakes is a tiny place. If you can walk fast, you can tick every single decent summit in 24 hours. But in my view, this sort of industrial development within the valleys leading up to the central hub is out of the question.

Falls under the same heading as "recycling" IMHO, i.e. totally missing the point...... its not how you recycle that counts, its consumption of finite resources in an unnecessary and wasteful way thats the problem. This issue is much the same in that its a pitiful after thought to an expensive and wasteful process that starts with massive consumption and the waste of resources, and ends with lets chuck the outcome into landfill and ignore it as an issue.

why worry?

Not sure what you're getting at there Graham. It's things like this that need shutting down if we're concerned about finite resources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conna h's_Quay_Power_Station