Old Yvette must be wondering when the bad dream ends?

I can’t see that Cooper would have inspired the British people that she should be the next Labour Prime Minister, her whole leadership campaign showed just how deeply uninspiring she is, so least she won’t have to deal with a general election defeat in 2020.

Her bad dream will probably come to an end on Saturday. Were she to win the leadership ballot it will last for another 5 years imo.

Does Matt in the Daily Telegraph think that Liz Kendall might win ?

Despite being Tony Blair’s personal choice she has pretty much conceded defeat.

The general thinking by everyone is that Corbyn has won. Worryingly if you are a Labour supporter it appears the Tories have already worked out a strategy based on him winning.

The quote below from the Guardian around Corbyn’s 99th speech sounds more Socialist Worker than Labour and seems out of touch with the majority current electorate thoughts.

loudest applause coming for a pledge not to renew the Trident nuclear programme, to resist bombing campaigns abroad and to reach out the hand of humanity to migrants.

Blimey, if that’s ‘Socialist Worker’ I dread to think what you would regard as the political centre ground.

sounds more Socialist Worker than Labour …………to resist bombing campaigns abroad and to reach out the hand of humanity to migrants

Indeed, it seems like an eternity since Labour had any commitment to peace and social justice.

I take it dragon that you won’t be backing Labour if Corbyn becomes leader with all this talk of not bombing people and reaching out the hand of humanity?

Bring back Tony Blair who knew how to bomb the crap out of foreigners and had no time for this humanity nonsense, eh ?

Suggesting that we’ve got better things to spend a hundred billion quid on at the moment than some pointless weapons systems, just so we get to play with the big boys?

Thats communism innit?

Bring back Tony Blair who knew how to bomb the crap out of foreigners and had no time for this humanity nonsense, eh ?

Thanks ernie Genuine laugh from me for that one.

Suggesting that we’ve got better things to spend a hundred billion quid on at the moment than some pointless weapons systems, just so we get to play with the big boys?

Sounds more SNP than Labour.

I was totally against Iraq and the results are a disaster, but that doesn’t mean that we should rule out using force if required. Standing back and watching ISIS take over Syria and Iraq does not equal being humane.

Standing back and watching ISIS take over Syria and Iraq does not equal being humane.

Except thats not whats happening, is it? Syria is in the midst of a civil war, with both sides giving as good as they get. And in Iraq and Syria you’ve got loads of different factions, all funded and supported by different regional powers, all having proxy wars with each other.

We haven’t even got a clue whats actually happening on the ground, let alone come up with any kind of meaningful or achievable plan as to how to provide a solution.

So the sooner we get out of the colonialist mindset that ‘we must do something’ and then start lobbing ordinance around, the better.

And given the catastrophic results of our recent interference in the region, I’d say that someone like Corbyn advocating that we keep our noses well out of it, would be a vote winner with a lot of people.

It’d make a refreshing change from both main parties slavishly following each other into yet more disastrous adventures in the middle east, as Dave seems hell bent on at the moment

So, all the meddling in the Middle East with invasions and bombings have only served to make matters worse until we’ve reached the situation in which we now find ourselves.

How is more of the same going to improve matters, this time?

Just asking…

Standing back and watching ISIS take over Syria and Iraq does not equal being humane

When the govt asked for permission to bomb Syria we were going to bomb the forces that fought against ISIS in the civil war
We seem to forget this every time we mention that we should be bombing them
Had we been bombing them who know how much stronger ISIS would now be

We have changed sides on who we bomb but not that we should be bombing the,

I was totally against Iraq and the results are a disaster, but that doesn’t mean that we should rule out using force if required. Standing back and watching ISIS take over Syria and Iraq does not equal being humane.

So you’re saying that we should support Assad? What were you saying two years ago?

Sorry, I’m getting a bit confused. Who is it we’re bombing this week?

Keep up Wopster…

Its Cardiff this week

So the sooner we get out of the colonialist mindset that ‘we must do something’ and then start lobbing ordinance around, the better.

So you’re saying leave them to it?

Thats exactly what I’m saying!

Because any other course of action is utterly futile, and can only possibly make things worse. The very last thing Syria needs, right now, is yet another country getting involved, lobbing bombs around. There are far too many in the mix already.

Yet that self-evident truism seems to be lost in Westminster, who wilfully ignore both the cock up of 2 years ago, where we were going to side with ISIS, and the fact that it was out disastrous invasion of Iraq that set off this whole chain of events in the first place.

in comparison to everyone else, Corbyn sounds like the voice of reason by saying we should stay well out of it!

So you’re saying leave them to it?

I think it’s up to those advocating intervention to tell us how not leaving them to it provides a better outcome. Because right now, I’m not seeing it.

Well, maybe there’s another way other than bombing?

A refugee from Syria commented this morning (whilst trudging trough the rain and mud into Hungary) that “There is no “Syria” any more. It doesn’t exist. There’s just a war zone, that’s all…”

Its largely irrelevant as long as we bomb someone and have an enemy
Have you read 1984?

Its Cardiff this week

Makes tenuous joke about having already bombed in Swansea

Well, maybe there’s another way other than bombing?

Again, it’s up to those advocating intervention to make their case.

Also – a family in Yemen, starving and driven out of their homes by Saudi bombs (sold to them by the British) were interviewed by the BBC. The family head (the Mother – the Father was dead) said that she would prefer it if one bomb could take them all out at once because that was the preferred option as opposed to staying alive and starving slowly to death.

Imagine yourself actually coming to that.

JY I was taking the widespread reporting of a certain Corbyn victory at face value, it could be wrong and thus that would be a mistake 😉

The invasion of Iraq was a mistake (as job in Afghan not completed yet and forces allocated to Iraq too small) but the way the exit was managed was the disaster

JY I was taking the widespread reporting of a certain Corbyn victory at face value, it could be wrong and thus that would be a mistake

As long as it is wrong and not you 😀

Ps well played made me chuckle

Is it just me? I don’t get the sense from anywhere yet that others think the f****g wheels are coming off EVERYTHING.

Edit: Except perhaps binners.

If I were in charge I’d have the full intelligence agency rollout to try and gather enough intel on the situation to be able to make a proper decision on what to do.

Maybe they already have, and have realised that getting involved in a proxy war would be tantamount to declaring war on the powers themselves.. wasn’t that what happened in Laos?

TBH I remain unconvinced that Corbyn will win the ballot. If he is declared the winner I’ll be quite frankly gobsmacked.

This. I’m still not believing it til I see it.

So you’re saying leave them to it?

It’s not a question of leaving them to it, but a question of whether whatever action we take will make a positive difference. I think we can all agree that the precedents are not good on this score.

Whopping many countries sell weapons to the Saudis. Vice news published this piece a few days ago on French military sales into the region and ahollande made a trip to Saudi recently a big part of which was arms talks

https://news.vice.com/article/if-the-us-wont-sell-you-weapons-france-might-still-hook-you-up

EDIT, me too posting it. Thanks for saying so, best to try and keep things as civil as possible otherwise there’s no interchange

Maybe they already have, and have realised that getting involved in a proxy war would be tantamount to declaring war on the powers themselves.. wasn’t that what happened in Laos?

The sorry history of Indo-China post WW2 should be required reading for anyone advocating military intervention in the Middle East.

On Yemen the Saudi coalition were asked to intervene by the Yemeni President.

Well bombing ISIS has pushed them back in Iraq stopping them getting to Baghdad and also prevented an even worse conclusion to the Sinjar massacre.

We haven’t even got a clue whats actually happening on the ground

Not true the UK and US have a very heavy intelligence & surveillance setup plus we’ve had (have) forces on the ground.

If I were in charge I’d have the full intelligence agency rollout to try and gather enough intel on the situation to be able to make a proper decision on what to do.

Hi…. yes, I was just wondering if you fancied popping to Aleppo for me? Yes, we need to know whats going on there, so we know which side to bomb…. and you can only get so much information from satellites. You should be able to just drive there. It’ll be fine. We’ve got a Land Rover you can use. If you could have a word with a few people… a sort of vox pop to get their opinions on what they think we should do? And if you could get us plenty of pictures… in fact, why not take a camera crew and get some film while you’re there?

No, no…. We’ll send a couple of bodyguards with you. I’m sure it’ll all be fine. Nothing to worry about. Just give us a call when you get back, and we’ll go through everything.

See you in a week or so then…..

On Yemen the Saudi coalition were asked to intervene by the Yemeni President.

Much like the Afghan President invited the Soviet Union to intervene and the Vietnamese government requested assistance from the USA!

Hi…. yes, I was just wondering if you fancied popping to Aleppo for me? Yes, we need to know whats going on there, so we know which side to bomb….

Sarcasm is always such a valuable contribution. That’s great, thanks.

Seriously though Molls… would you be volunteering?

Theres a reason we haven’t a clue whats going on. Because the beardy blokes get all beheady if they suspect you might be there to see whats going on. Then theres the other side dropping barrel bombs from Helicopters, and all the other heavily armed nut-jobs aligned to god-knows-who, all having their I’m-more-Islamic-than-you fun and games

So if we’ve not a clue whats going on on the ground, how on earth are we meant to deal with it by lobbing more bombs around?

I know that as a former colonial superpower its all very irritating, and a bit embarrassing, to the politicians in Westminster to realise that they’re completely impotent, but we are, so we need to deal with that fact and move on. Do we really need another disastrous escapade to ram home the limits of our shrinking military capability?

Only one politician is presently saying this. And I think a dose of realism would be very welcome to a lot of people.

Much like the Afghan President invited the Soviet Union to intervene and the Vietnamese government requested assistance from the USA!

Or why the communist insurgencies in Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam and China had popular support.

Seriously though Molls… would you be volunteering?

No, but I’m not an intelligence operative. You’ll notice that I am NOT advocating lobbing bombs around, that is in fact the opposite of what I am suggesting.

No, but I’m not an intelligence operative.

Are suicide missions in their job description? We haven’t got a clue whats going on, so why on earth do we think that we have the answers?

We need to get over our colonial arrogance, once and for all

and you can only get so much information from satellites.

Which is why they aren’t only using satellites but a whole raft of information gathering and surveillance kit. The UK alone has out there 10 drones, Rivet Joint aircraft, Tornado’s with RAPTOR pods, the GCHQ/NSA base on Cyprus and also in certain cases there have been boots on the ground. The US will have plenty as well, with France having just entered performing surveillance activities as well.