Heres what you could have won:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo9AkjL_7YY[/video]

the tories are obviously in dissaray over what is looking like an increasingly impossible task, just a shame that labour cant deal with their own issues!

@kimbers I do have to sincerely congratulate you on a positive attitude, no amount of reality is going to deter you 😉

My prediction: no general election in 2017, Article 50 in Feb 2017, Brexit completed before Feb 2019

Tom Watson. Excellent speech, standing ovation when he said Labour shouod celebrate the achievements of the last Labour Government and not spend the time doing it down. Corbyn at rooted to his seat barely a token clap. Watson acknowledged it is the private sector which pays for schools and hospitals, the electorate know that and Labour must too.

Of course Corbyn and everyone knows that. Ccorvyn’s not advocating nationalising everything now is he?

Jamba – I did like the line that “the eleven years of Labour government between 1997 and 2008 were a completely unbroken period of economic growth”

😉

I thought Corbyn was at his best and pretty good. The first half of Tom Watson’s I thought was dire and nearly stopped watching, but when he started talking up the Blair/Brown years I actually got goose bumps and it seemed to set the place alight. Glad I stuck with it.

Wonder if the plan is to sideline Corbyn and set campaign strategy without consulting him.

“Jamba – I did like the line that “the eleven years of Labour government between 1997 and 2008 were a completely unbroken period of economic growth”

You might call 11 years of growth a ‘boom’ but it can’t have been ‘cos both booms and busts had ended… 🙂

Seriously though, bigging up Labour’s record in office is the right strategy. Maybe if Milliband had done that he’d be PM right now. Telling voters the last time your party was in power was a disaster isn’t really a vote winner.

You couldn’t make it up:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/28/len-mccluskey-labour-deputy-leader-tom-watson-unite-union

Telling voters the last time your party was in power was a disaster isn’t really a vote winner.

It isn’t rocket science or a political thriller worthy of the Ides of March is it ? 😉

McCluscy doesn’t seem to realise that the Unions pushing around Labour is as toxic as Sturgeon saying she could make Milliband Prime Minister.

@ninfan yes indeed, there is a joke in asset management that if you can’t find an index you have out-performed you should’t be in the business. 1997-2008 we’ll just ignore 2009-10 (due to media bias ?)

@ninfan yes indeed, there is a joke in asset management that if you can’t find an index you have out-performed you should’t be in the business.

Most AM firms shouldn’t be in business then – especially when costs are included in performance. Its a bit like brexit, all the data shows that AM fail to achieve sustained outperformance and yet anecdotally I have never met a PM who has underperformed!! Odd that…

“Capitalism is not the enemy, money is not the problem, business isn’t bad. The real world is more complicated than that, as any practical trade unionist will tell you.

“Businesses are where people work. The private sector generates money to pay for our schools and hospitals. I don’t say this to win elections. I say it because it’s true, and people know that it’s true. That is why it wins elections.”

Burn him!

Who forgot the magic autocue spray to cleanse this speech? Outrageous, no wonder Lennie was so unhappy.

“It confused me, it seemed to be saying that New Labour and the ‘third way’ was the way forward again. Now, it doesn’t surprise me because Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell are putting forward an alternative. The right wing of the party have got no vision so they are going back to yesteryear,”

His irony filter seems to be broken. Because having Derek Hatton back at the conference, saying how chuffed he is that Jeremy, Len, John and all their Union chums are now dictating policy will have every voter welcoming in this bright new return to 1979 future come the next general election

having Derek Hatton back at the conference

Would that be the Derek Hatton of yesteryear or the Property Developer version of today? Not that I’m defending him, I can’t stand the bloke, but if you’re going to use him as a stick with which to beat Corbyn, then that should be the 2016 version of him not the 1980s one.

then that should be the 2016 version of him not the 1980s one.

has he changed his political views then ???

has he changed his political views then ???

No idea. Not sure being a property developer and having your own media company is particularly compatible with being a 1980s trotskyist revolutionary though.

His irony filter seems to be broken. Because having Derek Hatton back at the conference, saying how chuffed he is that Jeremy, Len, John and all their Union chums are now dictating policy will have every voter welcoming in this bright new return to 1979 future come the next general election

Yeah but don’t forget, to the bright young things of Momental, anything further back than 1990 is pre-history shrouded in the mists of time before time.

Nice to see such enthusiasm getting ready for the condemnation of historic repetion…

to the bright young things of Momental, anything further back than 1990 is pre-history shrouded in the mists of time before time.

Or maybe they’re more interested in looking forward? It seems to me that the only people banging on about the 1970s/80s are the ones who are still stuck in the late 90s. Blairism/3rd Way is now a 20 year old philosophy. Is it just possible that things might have moved on since then?

Derek Hatton. He does look better with the beard. Funny how once a lefty politician gets off that gravy train he truns into a property developer.

Here is a hint for the Labour supporters, Hatton is electoral poison.

@dazh free money (citizens income), £500bn of borrowing and nationalisation is most definitely the past. It’s an electoral open goal to point out that the kids all for it have not witnessed the disaster that Labour in the ’70/80’s where. IMF bailouts amd all.

Here is a hint for the Labour supporters, Hatton is electoral poison.

But, daaaaaaamn he looks HOT! 😀

Baroness Chakrabati appointment to the Shadow Cabinet expected to be confired very shortly.

Unelected and rewarded for her whitewash with a £75k-£100k pa job and a life peerage. Corbyn’s politics in action

I disagree on UBI btw, wherever its been trialed , its been a success with productivity increases and econimic gains throughout the board.
Trialed i seem to recall in a district of Holland, Canada and i think Nigeria

free money (citizens income)

Funny I can’t remember UBI being done in the past? Or are you counting Thatcher deliberately throwing millions onto the scrapheap and making it easy to claim the dole as a citizens ‘income’?

£500bn of borrowing

The bank bailouts would suggest it is still a very modern concept.

and nationalisation is most definitely the past.

All the big privatisations happened over 20 years ago, and have in most cases proven to be an abject failure characterised by under-investment, incompetence, and monopolist companies ripping off consumers to line their shareholders pockets.

So what is the future? More socialism for the rich I suppose?

It seems to me that the only people banging on about the 1970s/80s are the …

.. Tories who want to twist everything into tribal attacks on Labour without any real substance…?

Tories who want to twist everything into tribal attacks on Labour without any real substance…?

could be Molgrips… could be

or more worryingly perhaps even..

The sort of people who saw that their mate John got knocked off his bike..
They discovered that John was eating a sandwich whilst riding along, so to avoid getting knocked off their bike themselves they have decided never to eat sandwiches again

Anyway… Tory party conference next. Everyones been focussing on labour this week, which has all been fun and games, but never underestimate the appetite of the Tory party to start a civil war over Europe. I suspect thats the reason we’ve heard very little capitalising on the bickering in the labour party, which given the apocalyptic forecasts, hasn’t actually been that bad

I expect to hear the words ‘Brexit means Brexit’ abut 90 million times from Theresa. I expect that the more reasoned cameroony wing will be arguing for a ‘soft’ Brexit involving staying part of the single market, with free movement, while the rabid right wing mentalists will be demanding that we carpet bomb Dresden (again)

I like to ride up a steep rocky climb by my house. It’s hard, and I failed at first. However I didn’t conclude that it was stupid and give up MTBing. I kept trying til I got it right.

We do this often in real life. So why would we conclude Socialism is bad simply because a particular set of governments failed 30 years ago?

Wait, I know this one – it’s because people with a vested interest in the failure of Socialism have managed to fool those who have a vested interest in its success.

Well, it’s working a treat in Venezuela.

Oh…hold on…..

I like to ride up a steep rocky climb by my house. It’s hard, and I failed at first. However I didn’t conclude that it was stupid and give up MTBing. I kept trying til I got it right.

I thought you were about to launch into a pro-Brexit monologue for a minute.

CaptainFlashheart – Member
Well, it’s working a treat in Venezuela.
Oh…hold on…..

Big success on the Soviet Union, too. And China, where they’ve adopted, er, Capitalism as an engine of growth…

I’m not talking about communism, obviously.

I thought you were about to launch into a pro-Brexit monologue for a minute.

More likely to be a pro EU metaphor.. it all depends on what the top of the hill means to you. For me, it means working together with our neighbours and having open doors. To others maybe it means standing alone?

Wait – hold on a minute.

Is all this argument over socialism simply a mis-understanding of the definition of the word?

We do this often in real life. So why would we conclude Socialism is bad simply because a particular set of governments failed 30 years ago?

Read this it will help explain.

I despise the tories and what they stand for, however I’m not stupid enough to think that Trotsky socialism will work

I’m not stupid enough to think that Trotsky socialism will work

Me neither.

I think we do have a communication problem, because that’s not what I mean.

but never underestimate the appetite of the Tory party to start a civil war over Europe

Indeed. If anyone thought the brexit vote was going to put to bed tory divisions over Europe, they were sadly mistaken. Ironically I think it could make them worse. It’s a massive opportunity for the labour party. If labour can maintain a semblance of unity, agree a line of attack on brexit around retention of free movement/membership of the single market, then they can expose tory divisions and construct a popular view of tory incompetence and division dragging the country down a brexit hole that they themselves created.

Funny to think that a couple of months ago everyone was praising the tories for sorting themselves out and installing May in contrast to the labour chaos, and now the situation could well be reversed.

It’s a massive opportunity for the labour party.

Not really because Labour voters are as split as the Tories over this.

Indeed everyone is spilt on EU (and on the race issue that lies underneath). If Jezza is sensible he can “make” this an issue for the Tories and that should be very easy to do. Theresa has her hands full with the three buffoons. Ok, to keep you enemies close but it can easily backfire. We shall see…

Re UBI – (1) I would like to see the evidence that trials have been 100% successful and (2) as someone who is sypathetic to the idea, I think you will find that Labour do not believe in UBI in its true sense as a substitute to welfare/benefits but as a complement/addition to it. As an employer I am largely unsympathetic to that idea especially if it is dressed up as UBI.

OOI, what is the Labour position of Europe?

If Jezza is sensible he can “make” this an issue for the Tories and that should be very easy to do.

Yeah, just present a clear vision of what Labour want and unite the party behind it.. oh wait..

Re UBI – (1) I would like to see the evidence that trials have been 100% successful

Also define success – I have a feeling that one of its key benefits may be hard to actually measure in quantitative terms.

Tell me more….I am all ears mol

Greater public happiness…