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DSLR advice

40 posts & 18 voices | Started 4 months ago by crashtestmonkey | Latest reply from flyingmonkeycorps

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crashtestmonkey - Member

A very generous Munqe chick has offered to buy my a DSLR for my imminent big birthday. Both total noobs so am getting as much bafflement as help from surfing camera forums. Like Canons but have a few options; EOS500D, 550 and 600D. From what I can gather 550 has few more Mpegs, and is better at movies than the 500. 600 has a couple of tweaks over the 550 such as the screen, but even what camera debate whether its worth the difference.

Couple of questions then;

Are the newer models worth the extra for an all-round beginner SLR (movie interests me less than scenery/action stills)?

Importers seem much cheaper than UK, SLR-Hut have the 600 for £400, what are the warranty implications (or peoples experiences of) and do you get stung with import and VAT charges that offset the price?

On paper to a noob this looks like the best bang for the buck

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/80640/show.html

but slr forums seem to suggest the tele lens is poor, so a false bargain (especially given their mantra "glass is for life, a camera is for christmas")?

As its a pressy, and an expensive and generous one at that, MC would rather buy new than used (my semi-pro brother suggested getting a better used one of bay of flea), and from a UK dealer than an importer.

Or is there a must-have alternative or killer deal I've missed?

Posted 4 months ago #
ski - Member

The real difference is in how they handle, so its worth playing with a few in the shop before buying & seeing which you prefer.

If it was me, I would spend the money on a decent quality lens to start with and worry less on the body to start with.

Think about what you want to use the camera mostly for and match a lens to those needs.

http://www.dpreview.com/ is worth checking out for procduct info.

& the EOS 500D is a great camera tbh. & that is coming from a Nikon fan

Posted 4 months ago #
molgrips - Member

They are all good, don't get too hung up on the arguments people have. They are just mega-nerds waffling about tiny teeny details, hardly any of which will have any noticeable effect on the pictures you take.

Key things are size, preference, lens range and availability, features you like ie weatherproofing, flip out screen, super fast burst shooting etc.

I'd tend towards Sony or Pentax personally.

I would not import - apparently customs are very hot on spotting camera stuff and you are highly likely to get stopped for duty, making it not cheap.

I would say more cheaper lenses is far better than one expensive one, because it will allow you to do more stuff. Remember that a 'poor' lens is highly unlikely to be actually poor. You will only see the difference if you really really look for it. If you are printing out your pics at home or posting them online there'll be practically no difference.

Posted 4 months ago #
nmdbase - Member

550D is much better than the 500D. You can get them new on egay cheap.

Posted 4 months ago #
ski - Member

Do you think that's a record for a photographic post here molgrips?

4 posts & no bitching yet

Posted 4 months ago #
crashtestmonkey - Member

They are just mega-nerds waffling about tiny teeny details,

yeah, not sure why I thought STW would be any different

read a few 500 vs 550 threads on dpreview and elsewhere and opinion was split on whether the differences were worth it.

Are the new 550s on ebay imports with little or no warranty though? Bignorman have the 550 with an upgraded quality kit lens for similar price to the jessops 500D twin lens deal

http://www.bignorman.com/product/ProductName/Canon-EOS-550D-18-55mm-IS-Lens-Kit-%28Free-Upgrade-to-IS-MK-II-Lens!%29/ProductID/11811/

better quality base lens + newer/better body worth it, and treat myself to a decent (possibly used) big lens as and when?

Posted 4 months ago #
The Flying Ox - Member

My sister's Sony Alpha something-or-other is pretty sweet. I prefer it over my fairly old Nikon D40X.

Bonus is you can use it with all manner of old SLR lenses that you'll find for peanuts on eBay, whereas my Nikon is limited to more expensive Nikon/Tamron lenses only.

Posted 4 months ago #
soulman - Member

I really rate the nikon d5100 which I find better in low light than the canon, also the 55-200 vr has a good rep for image quality.

If you want it for sports/action then the Sony A55 is a quick camera if you can live with the EVF.

Advantage with Canon is the range of F4 L zoom lenses which are stunning value and quality.

Posted 4 months ago #
bwaarp - Member

Nikon
Nikon
Nikon
Nikon
Nikon
Nikon
Nikon

did I say Nikon? Better colours and dynamic range.

Having said that I now use mirrorless micro four thirds cameras such as the Lumix G3 or GX1. Why? Because they are a shit load more portable for cycling. You can carry more lenses at about half the weight.

The G3's sensor takes as nice photos as the 550D in a package that is much smaller.

Posted 4 months ago #
nmdbase - Member

I bought from HIM

My friend has a 500D and the 550D is better, he ended up buying one too.

Uh oh, here comes the arguments ^

Posted 4 months ago #
don simon - Member

did I say Nikon?

Why?
At that level they will be much of a muchness, make a decision, do you need/want specific features like the moving backscreen?
Mpixels don't really mean shit outside the marketing dept at this level either.
So unless one of the choice has an outstanding feature you want, I'd say they're more or less the same.

Posted 4 months ago #
molgrips - Member

Lenses lenses lenses. Lenses are where the fun lies. My fave things are my 30mm f1.4 and my 8mm fisheye. The camera just captures what comes out of the back of them. The lenses excite me with possibilities and results

Posted 4 months ago #
Cougar - Member

On paper to a noob this looks like the best bang for the buck

I'd suggest you're better off getting the standard kit (with the 18-55 lens) and buying the 55-250 zoom instead. The 55-250 is a considerably better lens than the 75-300 and can be had for just £140 (on Amazon). That said, that's a good price for what you get and will be hard to beat.

The Canon / Nikon debate really boils down to personal preference; there's not a huge amount to separate them all in all. Both have comparative strengths and weaknesses. For me, the Canon felt 'right' and intuitive whereas the Nikon didn't (which is why I bought one), plenty of people would say the opposite. Either way, you won't go far wrong.

Posted 4 months ago #
bwaarp - Member

Why?
At that level they will be much of a muchness, make a decision, do you need/want specific features like the moving backscreen?
Mpixels don't really mean shit outside the marketing dept at this level either.
So unless one of the choice has an outstanding feature you want, I'd say they're more or less the same.

Personal bias but I prefer the pictures Nikons produce.

Anyway, why not a mirrorless EVF camera? What does the OP want to photograph? I bloody love the portability of my girlfriends Lumix G3 and my GX1.

Posted 4 months ago #
molgrips - Member

I think it's probably time for me to stop suggesting Olympus

Posted 4 months ago #
bwaarp - Member

I think it's probably time for me to stop suggesting Olympus

Enron round two! I'm surprised the CEO's didn't perform ritual suicide over that one.

Posted 4 months ago #
ski - Member

And watch this thread pitter away into yet another pointless bickering session.

Meanwhile the OP leaves thinking what a bunch of..........

Posted 4 months ago #
molgrips - Member

Bit bonkers though, since apparently Pens are selling like hot cakes in Japan. I read that someone was thinking of buying them up.

Posted 4 months ago #
crashtestmonkey - Member

if its all about the lens, there's a 70 quid difference between these 18-55mms on a 550D

http://www.digitalrev.com/search?t=s&q=550D

with the more expensive one being similar to the bignorman deal, and similar price to the 500 twin kit at jessops.

I've had a canon compact for years and like the feel and layout of the canon DSLRs, the buttons seem to be in the "right" place.

A left field entry are the compact system cameras which allow fitting different lenses?

Posted 4 months ago #
meehaja - Member

A camera is only as good as the photographer and the lens. Try to find a camera that comes with a kit lens (18-55) and a nice telephoto zoom (70-200 or similar) that will give you a good range for close and long range stuff. Budget for a decent bag, a couple of SD cards, a spare battery maybe a cheap tripod as well.

Nikon are better than canon, as using a canon causes cute puppies to spontaneously combust.

Posted 4 months ago #
molgrips - Member

An E-PL3 would be in your budget.. they are very lovely and to be honest feel a lot better quality than SLRs the same price.

Posted 4 months ago #
UrbanHiker - Member

CrashTestMonkey, its a bit like bikes at the level your talking. Consider a 2k Cannondale, a 2k on-one and a 2k orange. Your not going to end up with a "crap" bike, but you might well get one with one better than the others. The next person along may well not like your choice but like one of the others more.

Go for a test ride is what they say about bikes, I would suggest the same with cameras. At the level your talking, they are all about the same level of quality, all very good, outstanding really. But they do feel different in your hands, it makes a surprising difference how they feel.

If you then like the feel of more than one, get the 2nd cheapest*. If your new to it all you wont know what you want till you've used one for a few months/years. Once you know, you can trade up. They keep their value amazingly well.

*2nd cheapest in my experience is more often than not the best value for money etc

Posted 4 months ago #
Shackleton - Member

CSC/EVIL/mirrorless designs aren't really left field. They are just newer designs that use electronic viewfinders to replace the bulky mirror box and pentaprism of traditional SLRs and are therefore able to be smaller.

I love my recently acquired GH2 which was bought after playing with the other halves GF2 for 6 months. I'd stopped taking my SLR biking and climbing and well, pretty much anywhere due to the size and weight. The GH2 with 14-140mm lens (eqivalent to 28-280mm in 35mm terms) has a smaller footprint and weighs less than my Canon 350D with the 18-55mm (28-80mm ish 35mm equiv) kit lens.

Mirrorless designs allow a much wider range of lens fitments. I use a nikon macro lens on my GH2 and have a couple of c-mount (cinema/film style lenses) lenses to play with as well.

Mirrorless designs also tend to be better at video at this price point.

If you want the bulk of an SLR then I'd personally go with the 600D as the difference in pricing isn't that great and I find canon to handle better than nikon and the menus to be more intuitive. If you want portability but SLR styling/handling a Panasonic GH2 would be a good bet, the G3, GX1 and olympus E-EPL3 are similar but smaller and more compacty in operation but produce great images. Something in between? Try the Sony Alpha range.

It is quite hard to buy a bad camera at this price from the ones you listed so far, it is really a matter of deciding what you want to do with it.

Posted 4 months ago #
UrbanHiker - Member

Oh, ps pretty much all the kit lenses form canon/nikon (not sure about other brands) are amazing, so again don't get hung up on that. Though I would say if it covers from a below of 25 to above 50 that should cover most of most peoples requirements. Again they keep their value so trading up at a later date is common.

Posted 4 months ago #
PePPeR - Member

Whichever you go for I'd give Kerso a shout to see if he can sort you a deal out, he has a shop on Ebay, but it's better to deal direct with him if you can...

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/FLASH-CAMERA/DIGITAL-CAMERAS-/_i.html?_fsub=3&_sid=5873291&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

All his cameras come with a UK invoice and I recently bought a new Olympus Pen EP-3 from him and it came in nearly £200 cheaper than any UK dealer! He deals with all the major manufacturers and is normally very well priced.

EVIL cameras are the way forward, Olympus have just introduced a water resistant micro 4/3 lens, so the camera to go with it won't be far behind, as long as they can keep going with all the troubles they are having at the moment! I love the Pen, I'm using all my older Leica lenses on the front of it and am loving the small form factor compared to my larger DSLR's.

Posted 4 months ago #
IvanDobski - Member

As a Pentaxian I'd have to recommend the kr deals which are kicking about. Luckily quite a few of the mags etc seem to as well.

Posted 4 months ago #
Cougar - Member

It's iPhone / Android all over again.

Guys, it's ok to recommend something other than what you own, you know. Different things suit different people; what I've got is right for me, it might not be right for the OP / everyone else.

Posted 4 months ago #
billysugger - Member

If you buy a 550d, use the kit lense, stumble your way through rendering on Sony Vegas then let youtoob put it's mark on quality then your videos will probably look similar to this...

No changes to track effects on Vegas or anything

www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1D1yP_xXD4

Posted 4 months ago #
crashtestmonkey - Member

any specific K-r deals youve seen? the only con in the what digi camera bumper xmas issue was no video autofocus, and Im not interested in video. The mag falls into the usual trap if giving everything they test within a few % of each other in their overall verdict, rendering that part of the exercise pointless.

Posted 4 months ago #
billysugger - Member

Didn't see the 'don't want it for videos' bit in your post.

If I were you I'd go to a shop, see how they differ in feel and menu navigation then make a decision. There doesn't seem to be a bad buy on the market.

In other words what Shackleton said:)

Posted 4 months ago #
Chew - Member

The best advice i can give is get the same model of camera as all of your friends. If they have a Canon get a Canon, if they have a Nikon get a Nikon. Theres not much between the brands at that level.

You can borrow/share lens and other bits of kit.

Posted 4 months ago #
UrbanHiker - Member

Chew, that is a great bit of advice. Agree.

The K-r is interesting, you can get a battery adapter that takes standard AA batteries. This is great if you take it on long trips/holidays etc as you don't have to worry about a charger.

Posted 4 months ago #
tyke - Member

If you buy a Canon before the 25th of January there is a cash rebate available on the 600d and 550d - see
Canon Christmas Cashback

Posted 4 months ago #
molgrips - Member

*checks PePPeR's link*

Sonofa... he has the 70-300 for much less than I paid.. but he does have the 9-18mm for a good price - must've been the same listing I saw with a normal ebay search. I hope they stay available for a while.

Posted 4 months ago #
flyingmonkeycorps - Member

They're ALL good. Seriously. I think you'd struggle to buy a bad body from any big manufacturer made in the last few years - I still use my Nikon D60 and get some great shots with it, including one that's been blown up to A0 and exhibited in a gallery. Lenses make far more difference, but I'd suggest getting the kit lens to start with and seeing what you end up doing with the camera. Lots of people will say "get a telephoto zoom!" which is fine if you use it, but for what I shoot the longest lens I own is a 28-75mm zoom. I'd much rather have my 10-20mm than anything longer.

Buy what your mates have is great advice - there's a lot to be said for pinching lenses, especially when they cost so much. If none of your mates have SLRs, try and have a play with a few bodies and see which ones suit your hands / face best. I'm so used to how Nikons work that Canon or anything else does my nut in, but if you're starting afresh you won't have that issue.

Personally I wouldn't go for a 4/3 - I don't take my camera riding that often, and when I do I only really take snapshots on a compact. I also like a "proper" viewfinder and having some nice buttons and dials to play with. Can you do stuff like remote flash (or even a flash gun) on a 4/3? I really know little about them.

Posted 4 months ago #