If however you want regular FS bike then in my opinion best ones tend to be made using lots of cold forged bits and hydroforming
Bikes are a bit like cars, once you've spent a certain amount there are very, very few really crap ones.
As to brands/marketing, people will pay far in excess of a products costs if they believe the hype - you've only got to look at the high 'value' fashion items. Many years ago I did some work at an importer of materials and silks - they were buying scarves in at dozen for a pound - that eventually ended up in Liberty at £50+ each.
As for bikes, for me the cost of the frame is irrelevent - its how it rides thats the key. But its in the components where you can make a real difference, and usually money talks.
Its also very enjoyable in buying a mainstream bike, and then swapping and buying top end stuff over time - whenever deals and/or breakages happen.
All the gear and no idea, comes to mind. He's been happy riding his old bike for ages so dont believe the hype of any make, large or small, it's about testing them, even if it's just off the kerb outside the shop. As Bruce would say .... Don't think.... Feel
I am fortunate enough to ride a few premium brand bikes. Ibis Mojo, Salsa Selma and a Whyte 19. But after lots of research I felt (not knew) these were the right bikes.
As I am lucky enough to be in the job I am, I wanted to have bikes which were outside the upgrade every year route.
But it's logical that you get the best price vs quality from the big brands. Trek/Spesh/Giant have frame designers, suspension designers, colour gurus etc.
Is my Mojo better than a Fuel? IMHO slightly, but I would tell my friend with a smaller budget to buy a Trek. If they love the Fuel they can always upgrade in the future.
Boutique for me is custom. Nicholi, Jones, Independant Fab etc. Yes one day, but I am still getting there.
Is my Mojo better than a Fuel? IMHO slightly, but I would tell my friend with a smaller budget to buy a Trek
My Fuel has a retail price of £5500, I could've bought a very bling Mojo SL for that, if not less. It's not about 'being fortunate' enough to be able to afford boutique stuff, and that's what I don't really get. Mainstream doesn't necessarily equal cheap.
only price 
Njee. You are right. But my mojo retails at very similar to your Trek and every single part is how I wouls like it. Frame, Wheels, Components were all my choice. I also looked long and hard at the 9.8 with the plan to make it into my dream 9.9. But I know that next year there won't be a new better '11 mojo coming out
So for me it made more sense.I have ridden most 'special' bikes, corporate or niche but felt that the Mojo (not SL) suited me best.
Why have you changed from your pimp Epic?
But for my brother who haf a 1500-2000 budget he could get a bike (EX8) almost as good as my Mojo for a lot less. At the top end its all abput choice, your pimp EX is the mutts, in its area the best. But in six months there will be a Trek ever so slightly better. My ibis will still be a rival....
But buying niche/premium/boutique you also run the risk that the bike you choose might not match your riding stlye. Buy big brand and you can almost know that you will jump on and like it.
If a small builder/designer/engineer matches your style exaclty, then and only then you know their choice will be spot on. But that's their style, the big guys are buildimg and designing bikes to all riding styles and shapes. You know it will work. I had two decade of MTBing and two years of riding great Trek Fuels (Alu and Carbon) and Anthems before I went a tiny bit off mainstream.
your mad 
I think boutique v mainstream is the wrong approach for your friend.He needs to decide what he wants the bike to do,then test ride bikes that will do this,then decide which he wants ,based on ride spec and price.
The mainstream brands may not be as "excitinf",but how much of that is media hype anyway? I've moved from a Rocky Mountain ETS-X to a Trek remedy,coz I wanted more travel and a burlier build.Can't say I've noticed any difference in build quality,but the trek offers more bang per buck IMO.
Ian
Anyone can afford a 5k bike. Its called 0%APR.
What is crackers is someone buying a 5k bike and driving round in a 2k car. I couldnt get my head round that.
Especially as mtb's plummet in value.
Buy any frame- get it resprayed in a colour of your choice and its unique, far better than boutique. Simples
Especially as mtb's plummet in value.
And cars don't?
A 5k car doesnt plummet in value over a year does it?
Anyone can afford a 5k bike. Its called 0%APR.
What is crackers is someone buying a 5k bike and driving round in a 2k car. I couldnt get my head round that.
Especially as mtb's plummet in value.
Buy any frame- get it resprayed in a colour of your choice and its unique, far better than boutique. Simples
That’s the spirit 0.1% counts as a recovery apparently, lets get up to our eyeballs in 0% magic free Debt again!!
5K bike 2K Car? Sounds like that person has their priorities in order to me…
Compared with Cars, bikes hold there value stunningly well, Especially MTBs, if someone tried to sell you a car telling you they had “used it mostly off road” and “Not had any big crashes” would you buy it?
I like bikes but I came to realise its the person and the person's fitness and attitude that are more important than a bit of bling.
Riding around on 5k (even 2k) doesn't make you a better rider.
Hence rider training is in order for me this year and Im aiming to get out more
hora last year i was driving to rides in a £180 mondeo with a 5k bike in the boot , not so bad this year my cars worth £1500 but i do more miles on the bike than i do in the car so why not 
Why have you changed from your pimp Epic?
I change every season (another case for mainstream there actually, I really struggled to sell my Titus, where as people have bitten my arm off for my Epics for the last 3 years!), and just fancied a change from Spesh. The Fuel seems very nice, even more bling than any of the Epics!
I love orange but would certainly not consider them boutique. Take Ventana offering frames for a price which not far off mass produced stuff. Everything bar the bearings made in-house (including the powdercoating now, so they have control over the quality), offering custom and semi custom geo, customer service where you speak with the main man, trade in programme - the list goes on. There are others in a similar vein too.
I've had warranty issues with big brands in the past. I'd rather them spend less on flashy advertising and more on basic customer service and support and REAL R&D - so they are not sending out poor product which is being tested by us! Grrrr.
@hora -
Agreed.
But given a 7K pot of free money and tasked with purchasing a car and a bike I think I’d weight my spending towards the bike end of things, cant see why people see such importance in a car...
Who wants a pricey car? It only gets keyed it’s not like you can drive the thing at any speed anywhere anyway, if your not stuck behind some blue-rinser then the rozzers have a camera waiting for you…
Nah something to transport bikes and people that is all a car is for these days, so why spend more on it?
so they are not sending out poor product which is being tested by us!
You really think it's the mainstream manufacturers doing that? As a percentage failure rate from what I've seen I would say the boutique brands are far more guilty of that!
cookeaa- my criteria for a car is reliability. If you could find me a reliable car I'd pay ANYTHING! £500 or £5,000!
Sod the keying, speed etc etc.
b r - Member
Bikes are a bit like cars, once you've spent a certain amount there are very, very few really crap ones.As to brands/marketing, people will pay far in excess of a products costs if they believe the hype - you've only got to look at the high 'value' fashion items. Many years ago I did some work at an importer of materials and silks - they were buying scarves in at dozen for a pound - that eventually ended up in Liberty at £50+ each.
As for bikes, for me the cost of the frame is irrelevent - its how it rides thats the key. But its in the components where you can make a real difference, and usually money talks.
Its also very enjoyable in buying a mainstream bike, and then swapping and buying top end stuff over time - whenever deals and/or breakages happen.
That man has underlined this whole thread with one stroke. I've done the same and come round full circle in 20 years of riding. I now have Specialized DH and AM bikes and a Giant road bike. I'll ignore my hardtail.
Is that a Newsboy? You have bought among the most pointless bikes ever, well done
Do people really consider Santa Cruz to be boutique ?
Wow, I've got two of them. 
Do people really consider Santa Cruz to be boutique ?
They do feel very special even though the designs arent anything special. they just get the angles etc etc 'right'.
Do people really consider Santa Cruz to be boutique ?
I'm just as surprised that people don't.
But as I said before, I think it's more a disagreement about what the word means than about what SC (or Orange) actually do.
Personally (and probably like many others on here) my attitude to bike buying is more like "what can I get cheap that's suitable for the sort of riding that I want to do?"
I don't flatter myself that only one bike designer is clever enough to create a bike good enough for my immense talents.
And this all comes back to what is boutique?
Is it only custom built bikes, properly bespoke stuff? In which case there's hardly any out there! Or is it small manufacturers with a small number of employees working on a small scale?
On another note... WGAF!?
I bought the Chameleon because I wanted something with horizontal dropouts to run a Rohloff and it was the first bike to turn up on ebay locally at the right price.
I bought the Blur because, on paper, VPP sounded like the best suspension linkage and it was cheaper than an Intense.
So, all this time I should have been feeling smug and looking down on other people on their common bikes. I never knew. 
This topic has been closed to new replies.
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