What is the benefit of these big seat packs, over a rack & drybag on a hardtail?

Also, how much stuff can you actually squeeze into a framebag such as Revelate/wildcat/buggybag etc

I am quite happy with my mini panniers/rack/drybags for my bikecamping needs this year, I like the look of all the new bag solutions, but need convincing that they are £££ better 😉

With frame bags you can tack side to side in a tail wind for extra speed

Depends if your going off road.
Rack’s can break when loaded up and your bouncing down a bridleway. As yet I’ve not seen set of soft luggage break but I have seen 3 racks fail.

Frame bags take a lot of weight from other areas like backpacks which can relieve the backache/bumache you’ll inevitably have after a long day in the saddle.

Racks and panniers put a lot of weight out back, not good for handling. The frame bags allows you to centre the weight distribution.

The point of “bikepacking” is to get out and explore singletrack further afield than a day trip would allow, while the extra weight makes it difficult to do the very techy stuff, its still mountain biking.

Also IME racks stiffen up the rear end of a bike, no point having a nice supple steel or Ti frame, to then ruin it with racks.

I should mention I go bikepacking with a tractor 😉

[img]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-bqAku2yagg8/T5JSP3zrnuI/AAAAAAAABLQ/ESUjWY_jUqQ/s800/IMGA0464.JPG[/img]

I like the idea of frame bags a lot, but not so sure about loosing 2 bottle racks, esp in hot weather in the middle of nowhere.

Has anyone got pics of their kit, that fits into a frame bag?

I was thinking the same thing last night. Done many bothy trips with my young son, carrying coal, on top of the rack, full set of panniers and a 75l rucksack. Not ultralight but started going with my son when he was 5. Cant really understand the advantages with frame bags etc. Am I missing something

I’ve never used panniers, so coming from the other side of this I don’t see as many advantages with a luggage system that weights 2-2.5Kg before it has anything in it and has fittings to break – but I’m only carrying 8-9kg of kit for multi-day rides. For a really epic ride, I reckon I’d try out rear panniers and fork-mounted carriers of some kind as well to be able to carry enough kit.
Frame pack for heavy items keeps weight low and central so you can still hop the bike or generally ride off-road relatively unhindered, I only put light bulky kit like a down gillet and bag in the seatpack.

More here – MTBR pannier vs softpack thread

OP, have you thought about fork mounted bottles or a bladder inside the frame bag?

motorman, you got a PM.

My frame bag (a homemade version of the revelate one) holds a 3l bladder, spare inner tube, bike tools, mini pump, waterproof, and a few clif bars. So, assuming your two bottles are 750ml ones, you can double the amount of water that you carry there over your current bottle cages.
For me a large reason was that the frame bag allows me to ride without a rucksack which, ime, makes a massive difference over multi-day rides – with a loaded bike and 1×9 I find that i’m out of the saddle much more. Going on your pictures though, I’m guessing you already don’t use a rucksack, so this might not be as much of an issue.

You can’t ride fast on proper off road with panniers and rack – you can with a frame bag and seatpack.

Any opinion on the gear from bikepacking.eu or buggybags? 8)

I have a buggybag – It’s great VFM, very well made, durable and tough ie not that light due to the cordura fabric but looks like it’d survive a RTW trip.

Motorman – Have you see this post: bike-options-for-bikepacking (on STW)?
I posted some links near the bottom of the post…There’s a lot of info on the Bikepack.eu bags on Bike and Bivi.
Have you looked at the Fatbike forum on MTBR too?

I’ve a Bikepack saddle bag and bar bag. I’m very pleased with them but I’m thinking of ditching the saddle bag for some rides, as I can’t ride technical descents with it being in the way! A problem with all saddlebags though…If I didn’t live near a load of mountains it wouldn’t be a problem.

my frame bag is quite small (18″ scandal 29er) but it fits; tool bag (thomson stem bag), 2 tubes, tarp +pegs, stove, gas + lighter, some food and some clothes. + a map,micro lock and a few bars in the map pocket.

i used to use a rack + drybag, i found it difficult to keep the drybag in place and then the rack stripped the frame threads. seatpack has a sleeping bag, bivvibag & liner. sleeping mat + extra clothes + lots of spare room. that would all fit with a winter bag but spare room would be 1 or 2 blocks of noodles worth.

what are the prices like on them buggybags, what kind of ball park?

I’ve a Bikepack saddle bag and bar bag. I’m very pleased with them but I’m thinking of ditching the saddle bag for some rides, as I can’t ride technical descents with it being in the way! A problem with all saddlebags though…If I didn’t live near a load of mountains it wouldn’t be a problem.

Saddlebags are fine absolutely to ride normally in techincal terrain, I can still drop my saddle 5 inches with the Revelate saddlebag so it just hovers over the rear tyre. Also lowers the centre of gravity too.

It’s been off some pretty big drops and jumps fine with mine.

you must run 26 inch wheels on a big frame then rik ?

there is no way i could drop my saddle on my 20″ 29er 5 inches despite it being close to max atm ….. and still get a saddle bag in there

there is no way i could drop my saddle on my 20″ 29er 5 inches despite it being close to max atm ….. and still get a saddle bag in there

On my FS29er im already close to hitting the bag with the tyre at full travel (cant fit anything to the bungees under it), and thats with only 80mm travel. Thankfully im still abale to slide back along the bag, so dont have any problems descending due to that, just the usual minor issues due to weight strapped to the bike.

It’s a hardtail – 18 inch Ti456 with plenty of post showing.

I wouldnt go bikepacking if carrying the gear impeded on the riding itself.

I still ride fast and do all the jumps and drops i would normally do in the Peak/Lakes trails if i’m staying out for the night. Thats the beauty of the lightweight kit and carrying in framebags, saddlebags and some in a wingnut.

Thats why racks are no-no.

Rik – I still ride fast and do all the jumps and drops i would normally do in the Peak/Lakes trails if i’m staying out for the night

I should have stated I wasn’t really talking about jumps and drops, more steep, technical descents. I live in the Lakes and have rode nearly everywhere, legal or not when not bikepacking. I wouldn’t fancy trying a lot of it while doing it though. If you can ride your loaded bike down a lot of the off-road passes round here I’d be very surprised! I don’t think a lot of folk would be up for the hike-a-bike to get up to them with a loaded bike either…but that’s another matter.

If you can ride your loaded bike down a lot of the off-road passes round here I’d be very surprised

Can’t think of a pass in the Lakes I wouldn’t actually – Rode Rosthwaite in the wet top to bottom not so long ago with a loaded bike no big deal. Cant see why it makes it any harder, just your braking points are a little different. Steep and technical is what I ride on every ride.

Try not to compare everybody to your own ability and limits. I certainly know where mine are.

If your carrying the right kit a loaded bike is still not heavy.

Oh for the thread – I’d throughly recommend Eric at Revelate – a joy to deal with and talk too. But I did get a top tube bag of the chap from Poland and it was high quality esp for the money. The guy who runs it has written several articles which have been published in the mags.

Rik – Try not to compare everybody to your own ability and limits. I certainly know where mine are.

Whatever!

If your carrying the right kit a loaded bike is still not heavy.

I know it isn’t, I never said it was. Although it can be awkward carrying with bags attached.

Rik – Member

Saddlebags are fine absolutely to ride normally in techincal terrain, I can still drop my saddle 5 inches with the Revelate saddlebag so it just hovers over the rear tyre. Also lowers the centre of gravity too.

You can tell I’ve too much time on my hands when I’ve just looked through lots of pics of bikepacking setups and found that out of all of them, only one or two would be able to drop their saddles by more than a couple of inches…either the bag would catch the tyre or the bags attachment to the post would bottom out. Don’t believe the hype folks!
The only thing I can think is that Rik must have loads of seatpost showing and/or using a Pika bag rather than the bigger Viscacha?

Try not to compare everybody to your own ability and limits. I certainly know where mine are.

Oh, and if you want to be a Rik about things…I’ve just stalked you on Strava, how many pages of KOM’s have you got? Come back with statements like that when you have some speed about you. 🙄

how many KOM’s have you got! LMAO 😆

KOM’s? Dear oh dear.

OK. Everyone else out the thread, Iceman and Maverick are going full on Top Gun homoerotic. Volleyball anyone?

I’ve got quite a few KOM actually in the Peak and I only started using Strava upload a few days ago. Including one of the peaks most popular downhill on the same hardtail you talk about.

http://singletrackworld.com/members/d45yth/

You are being quite a petty minded d#I#c#k and how many have you got?

I am only trying to explain how bikepacking is the best thing to happen to mountain bike camping in years, as the relentless progression of technology in both bikes and camping equipment applied correctly means you can have multiple days on the hill without a shop and still ride hard terrain with fun.

d45yth,
I seen that thread, i’m liking your setup. What bar bags are you using?
I believe the buggybags used to start from £50 for a frame bag.

Can we keep this thread on topic please…do it for the kids 🙄

Alpkit have some frame bags to view at mountain mayhem, will try and get some pics

motorman – Member
Has anyone got pics of their kit, that fits into a frame bag?

Small frame bag

Big frame bag (bottle cages on front enabler forks)

Thanks John!

I was e-mailing a few folk last night to see if the stock mukluk bag will fit my bike, frame specs are pretty similar.

What is the small bag? looks handy for swapping between bikes for shorter rides.

Also been looking at the alpkit ones online, be interesting to see what they are like, looked pretty lightweight. I’m looking so gear that will last & made from heavier material 😈

Have they listed them as items on the shop yet? Pre orders etc.?

Motorman – My bar bag is a Large, Bikepack Double-twist SL. The small bag John is using is the same as mine, a Jannd Frame Pac…only available from the US as far as I know. Look for them on Ebay, the postage is cheaper when bought off there rather than Jannd themselves. Parcelfarce charge an £8 handling fee too!

Sorry for the thread going off track…For most folk, when using a saddle bag, dropping the saddle by a substantial amount is not an option though.

Links to my setup are:

My Bike with Bikepack Bags (Bike and Bivi)
My One Nighters and Gear Shakedown (MTBR – Scroll down for bike setup and kit list)

Now who has decided to re use “bikepacking” ?
It’s already in use as a term for camping whilst using your bike. Have a look at the book Bikepacking (alright I doubt you will find it) by Robin Adshead from the 1970/80’s.
If you don’t like the weight distibution of putting too much stuff on a rack use a handlebar bag. Stick the ligh and bulky stuff on the rack and things like a camera in the bar bag.

mattsccm – Member
Now who has decided to re use “bikepacking” ?
It’s already in use as a term for camping whilst using your bike.

Which is pretty much what it’s being used for here 😕

motorman – Member

Thanks John!

What is the small bag?

It made by JANDD Frame Bag
http://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FFP

Sorry for going off topic again Motorman, it had to be done though! 😆
Mattsccm back in the day!

They look fine bikes for a bit of steep singletrack riding 😈

jandd camelbak substitute

Singular Swift by rOcKeTdOgUk, on Flickr