From that Roadie vs MTB thread and some of the speeds quoted…

I ride a gravel bike, 35mm stock Giant semi slicks, the bike is a bit beefy for a road bike at 24lb ish and I ride with flats and MTB gear, no lycra on show by order of SWMBO. I’m not exactly a streamlined rider either – wrong side of a 25 BMI but not by much.

Using a 50T big chainring and 11-32 cassette. At full effort I’m getting 22mph or so on the flat, normal out of breath effort around 17mph. Pretty much every ride is coming out at 14mph average over 15 to 20 miles according to Garmin, I don’t push things to the max all the way round a ride and don’t autopause when I stop to take a breather photo. I occasionally overtake other cyclists, but get overtaken just as much.

I can see that club riders on Strava local leaderboards getting 25 to 30mph averages and can see with their level of activity, fitness how that is possible.

If I look at my place on the leaderboards I’m pretty average, if I narrow down by age and weight then I’m a better than average. I’m pretty happy with that if I’m enjoying the rides.

What I’m wondering is how to get into that next step up from around 15mph average to 20mph average. I see lots of people claiming 20mph average as if it’s simple and easy and everyone should be doing it, but it doesn’t add up for what I see out and about which is either really fast club riders who ride a lot or average riders like me pootling around at roughly the same speed. If 20mph was easy shouldn’t I see more people doing that?

Do I just keep pedaling until my legs can push a 50T chainring at a higher cadence to get the higher speed?

Do I have to find the time to ride more?

Does a carbon road bike, streamlined rider and skinny tyres at 100psi mean a shortcut to a lot more speed?

I’ve got half arsed personal target for average speed improvement over 20 miles by the end of this year, managed getting from a measly 10mph average after coming off statins back in Feb to the 14mph I’m getting now so pleased with that.

Just wondering if I’m aiming for the impossible and the average figures I’m seeing as being easy by the swoonmeisters online aren’t real or are really the top speed or the average speed of their fastest segment and their whole ride was a lot slower.

Curious more than bothered!

15 pages of it here…

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/roadies-whats-your-average-speed

Speed is so dependent on conditions, what you’re riding, your route, road surfaces, etc. Much better to work off something that is less influenced by external factors (e.g. power.)

20mph is more likely to be attained in a group or even just a pair, 17-18 is more than respectable on a normal road bike solo. And I am much faster on my proper road bike than my gravel bike on road.

oh dear god no! please lets not do this again 😈

A “faster” bike will obviously help. The quicker you go, the more energy is expended in simply moving through the air. Riding in a group will be the easiest way to faster speeds though. If you can do 17mph. solo then 20mph in a group is no more difficult.

Watch for the cheats who set their gadgets to ignore speeds below “x” mph on their journeys, due to thing like red traffic lights, artificially boosting their average speed.

oh dear god no! please lets not do this again

Shut up spoilsport 😛

I see lots of people claiming 20mph average as if it’s simple and easy and everyone should be doing it

It is simple and easy if you are fit and have trained well. It is not simple and easy otherwise.

There is also a massive difference between an average speed of 15 and an average speed of 20 as the increased effort is exponential.

Graph in kph but 15mph is roughly 25kph and you can see the aerodynamic drag increase from that point

oh dear god no! please lets not do this again

Cheers for the input, move onto another thread if it bothers you that much – 🙂

Edit: Added smily, didn’t want to appear too dismissive!

15 pages of it here…

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/roadies-whats-your-average-speed

Ta, usually search before posting but forgot this time, typical.

As Mr B says there are so many variables, you could add distance of ride, temperature, humidity and a whole load of others. Flat smooth tarmac is the ideal then things like surface dressing can know 1-2MPH off my average, it just seems to suck at your wheels.

Those Strava riders posting high average speeds – were they in a group? Which way was the wind blowing that day? How much rest had they had before the ride? Again lots of factors to consider.

How to get faster? Zonal training helps improve your efficiency but it’s tedious and you have to do it on your own and be disciplined about it. Short interval training will also help as it gets you used to putting out lots of power – as you get stronger keep the intervals the same length but shorten the recovery periods.

oh dear god no! please lets not do this again

Cheers for the input, move onto another thread if it bothers you that much

[/quote]

I was actually typing the below expanded post while you replied to that but left it too long and missed the edit window, but here it is for you anyway:

What I’m wondering is how to get into that next step up from around 15mph average to 20mph average.

more riding, more often and harder efforts, if you want to do it properly then an actual training plan will help.

I see lots of people claiming 20mph average as if it’s simple and easy and everyone should be doing it

It’s not simple, it’s not easy, you can get there but it’s hard work, a lot of the faster rides you see will either be group rides (massive aero and effort benefit), or people representing a few ‘good’ rides as their ‘normal’

Do I just keep pedaling until my legs can push a 50T chainring at a higher cadence to get the higher speed?

You’ll need to focus on both power and cadence, not one or the other. 50/11 spinning out (well not out, but a fastish cadence of 100RPM) should have you topping out at about 35-36mph, my guess is you need to work on both aspects at the moment if you want to improve, you either don’t have the strength to push the big gear properly, and also cant spin a smaller one fast enough.

For ref, I can keep up with a rolling club chaingang on my SS (46/17) up to ~27mph, then I can’t spin fast enough, so if you can’t get over 22mph on the 50 tooth then you need to work on the spinning as much a the brute force/power.

Do I have to find the time to ride more?

yes/no/maybe, possibly you just need to focus on riding harder

Does a carbon road bike, streamlined rider and skinny tyres at 100psi mean a shortcut to a lot more speed?

not really, it will gain you a bit but the difference between my 700x38c 30+lb everythignbike with racks and such and my 700x25c 18lb road bike over say 30-50 miles is maybe 2-3mph depending on route, but it’s always worth working on the engine regardless of bike.

I’ve got half arsed personal target for average speed improvement over 20 miles by the end of this year, managed getting from a measly 10mph average after coming off statins back in Feb to the 14mph I’m getting now so pleased with that.

You’re doing well, just keep at it, but remember the gains get harder as the speeds get faster, aero drag starts to become more significant as well, its a lot hard to jump form 15mph average to even 17mph average than it is to jump from 10-14, getting >18mph average on a solo ride starts to be come ‘hard work’ in anyones book.

Just wondering if I’m aiming for the impossible and the average figures I’m seeing as being easy by the swoonmeisters online aren’t real or are really the top speed or the average speed of their fastest segment and their whole ride was a lot slower.

Some internet exaggeration, some mild misrepresentation of figures, and some genuinely quick people, but they’re a self selecting sample, quick people are normally into their stats and will also like to show off, even if not intended that way, and they should, they should be proud of their efforts, but for every person posting about the ease of the 23mph average ride, there are 100’s who either didn’t read the thread, didn’t post or don’t care.

Also, don’t overestimate the importance of route choice! anyone can bash out a good time on a flat route with no wind (or a tailwind!) a bit harder if you live somewhere hilly.

For ref… the midpack club riders round here who can do 18mph average, do something like Ride London > 22mph, throw them at Dartmoor and it’s suddenly nearer 15-16…

If you want to get faster and if that will help you enjoy your riding more then look into specific training, but if it won’t increase your enjoyment then don’t bother, find somewhere nice to ride and go there at whatever pace you like, sometimes the best rides are the slow ones, I did a beautiful 1-night mini-tour a couple of weekends ago over Exmoor and North Devon coast, cruising back through Cornwall, 165 miles at a glorious average pace of 12mph, it was ace, and going faster would have ruined it 🙂

I’m pretty happy with that if I’m enjoying the rides.

^^^^^^^^

Sorry but with a BMI “wrong side of 25” you are probably a bit of a fat biffer, and recently on statins also suggests you may be a bit past your prime (sorry). Add a slowish bike you’re not going to be troubling the leaderboards. Fast road cyclists are skinny buggers on skinny wheels, it’s not just about the bike but a fair chunk of it is.

Note I’m not trying to say there’s anything wrong with being a fat biffer a bit past his prime. I guess most of us here fall into that category, and still enjoy our cycling. If you want to get fitter, ride more and perhaps find a club to ride with. Our best 25 mile TT by far was a week or two after a 2 week touring holiday in the Dolomites. Someone back from a similar cycling holiday just smashed their PB on the local club TT last night.

Kinda pointless thread, as some people only go out and smash themselves and others ride most of their time in specific training zones.

Loads of folks on here claim they can average 20+mph, but what they aren’t telling you is that’s for 1 ride a week fully kitted up with their Zipp 303’s going absolutely eyeballs out.
I follow Steven Kruijswijk on Strava (https://www.strava.com/pros/3056059), and he spends the VAST majority of his time rolling round in z1/z2 at 19mph – i’d suggest much as they might like to think so, most members of the forum are not quite as quick as Steven.

Kinda pointless thread, as some people only go out and smash themselves and others ride most of their time in specific training zones.

Is indeed. If you want to know how quick you are, go racing 🙂

Most of my time I’m riding to power zones. Probably nowhere near as much % of riding time in z1/z2 as Kruijswijk though as I’m not training for a season of WorldTour racing and rarely race for more than an hour. Kruiswijk also based in Gerona (envious!) so his rides are a fair bit lumpier than mine.

the only time i’ve averaged 20mph was ride london. my local road club still won’t talk to me…

This comes up a lot, even talking to people IRL, and I’m convinced that for a lot of people when they claim they average 20mph, what they really mean is that when they’re rolling along a nice section of their ride they look down at their speedo and it says 20mph.

This is very obviously NOT the same as averaging 20mph 😀

I had this with my old boss, he used to bang on about going out and sessioning Strava segments but would never show me any whole-ride data.

On here everyone seems to average 20mph usually on a fatbike wearing 5/10’s and eating a pork pie.

In the real world most quite committed riders are 17/18/19mph and only a few pretty focused ones hit 20mph+ regularly.

Kinda pointless thread

With hindsight most definitely, seemed a resonable question at the time. I guess asking in one of the places fast times are posted was futile.

wors wins the comments 🙂

thecaptain – Member

Sorry but with a BMI “wrong side of 25” you are probably a bit of a fat biffer

Only slightly, but no offence taken, genetically unfortunate to have a broken pancreas and extra insulin ironically tends to encourage weight gain. I have been lighter and it’s slowly shifting.

I’ll never be a racing whippet so not chasing the leaderboards.

I’m convinced that for a lot of people when they claim they average 20mph, what they really mean is that when they’re rolling along a nice section of their ride they look down at their speedo and it says 20mph.

This is very obviously NOT the same as averaging 20mph

+1

This comes up a lot, even talking to people IRL, and I’m convinced that for a lot of people when they claim they average 20mph, what they really mean is that when they’re rolling along a nice section of their ride they look down at their speedo and it says 20mph.

This is very obviously NOT the same as averaging 20mph

I had this with my old boss, he used to bang on about going out and sessioning Strava segments but would never show me any whole-ride data.

Thread may not be entirely pointless, this is what I was wondering in less words than I used.

Firstly I would say going from 15mph to 20mph avg (door to door is how i think of it, not specific segments) is not ‘that next step up’ – its actually several steps up from where you are right now. Thats not being negative about where you are, more highlighting the difference between these 2 avg speeds is quite big in real world terms. Set yourself a first goal of avg 17 mph, then 18 etc

You can spend a few quid and make 1 or even 2 mph difference without any extra effort straight away – 28mm or less road tyres and going clipless (pref. roadie style rather than mtb). Also wearing ‘road’ clothing will help a little (even if its just improved comfort on the bike)

Make yourself a bit more streamlined when it matters – hit the drops when you’re 18mph + etc.

Ride in flatter areas 🙂 Where I ride normally (round Cambridge) I’m 2 or 3 mph faster than when I ride in the hills.

But most importantly its sorting out the engine. If you want to get faster, you’re going to have to ride harder. Intervals, tempo rides etc. I found a heart rate monitor helped me structure some of my rides.

Good luck!

I keep thinking I ‘can average 20mph’ but the truth was more like ‘have once or twice averaged 19.999mph by riding hard on relatively flat routes’.

Even then it took some dedicated wannabe time trialist posing (yep, forearms on the tops, wrists dangling over the front 😉 ) and eventually tendinosis in my hamstrings from spending too long in a time trial tuck without adequate stretching and strengthening etc. etc.

This was on a Cannondale Synapse with 35mm deep Ultegra wheels and 25c tyres, so not an aero machine but not a gravel bike!

Took me years to get to that stage also, when I got my first road bike I arbitrarily decided I should be doing 17mph average over 100 miles and that took a long time to achieve, even at my ‘peak’ it would only take a head wind or a few too many steep climbs to drag me back to 17mph.

The comments about exponential difficulty definitely ring true.

Anyway, mostly rambling pointless post but does make me wish I didn’t sell the road bike, maybe when my next cycle-to-work scheme comes around, my wife will kill me after the loss I made selling the last one… 🙄

rocket – Member

Ride in flatter areas Where I ride normally (round Cambridge) I’m 2 or 3 mph faster than when I ride in the hills.

Vale of York – all my elevation data is pretty much due to railway bridges.

My best ride in recent years (and it really was a one-off) was down near Cambridge last year: 74Km, 150m of ascent and an average speed of 31kmh. My commute home: 25Km, 500m ascent, avg speed of 20.9kmh. Ride round the Dales: 126Km, 2200m of ascent, avg speed of 24kmh.

All rides on my own so no drafting, etc. The Dales ride is much more typical of my riding.

I think if you swapped to 25/28mm slicks while the weather is okay you’d be pleasantly surprised.

I’m now in the camp of it’s the engine more than the bike, based of my personal experience of comparing my Alu road bike with my chinese carbon “gravel bike” on slicks – the times are near enough identical.

It has taken me almost two years to increase my 50 mile (non stop) average by 4mph on a fairly flat route.

Keep it up and most importantly enjoy!

P.s. is using auto pause when stationary (non of that below 5mph nonsense) at traffic lights/while taking pictures classed as cheating?

P.s. is using auto pause when stationary (non of that below 5mph nonsense) at traffic lights/while taking pictures classed as cheating?

Yes, you’re getting the benefit of that recovery time but not factoring it into the ride time 🙂

I don’t think it really matters TBH from a Strava pov as I think it works out avg speed based on moving time anyway.

This is a bit more reassuring than the previous thread.

My solo ride on sunday was 15.3 (avg moving speed) over 60 miles though I did have an hour+ break/rest midway to visit someone.

(50yo, 5’9″, approx 12.5st, should probably be about 11 🙁 )

At full effort I’m getting 22mph or so on the flat, normal out of breath effort around 17mph.

How much attention do you pay to your body position? If the answer is “not much”, then I think you could put a couple of mph on both of those for the same effort by getting a bit moar aero (have you got drop bars or straight?).

Yes, you’re getting the benefit of that recovery time but not factoring it into the ride time

Bugger, I think any of my personal bests have been on ‘auto-pause’. I just told myself the stops were too short to count 😳

amedias – Member

I was actually typing the below expanded post while you replied to that but left it too long and missed the edit window, but here it is for you anyway:

Cheers for the info, useful. I did go back and add the smiley as I realised it looked a bit more of an unfriendly comment rather than a cheerfully sarcastic northerner comment.

I seem to hover around the 15-16mph average, find it hard to push it any higher round here as there’s a lot of rolling ups & downs, rather than flat. (South Downs). Yesterday’s ride was 54 miles with 2703 feet of vertical ascent according to my Garmin with an avg of 15.8 mph. I’m certainly no racing snake, and am only really pushing past the 25-30 mile distance this year after a long break from the road.
I reckon more hours in the saddle with a bit of targeted training should help me to keep my speed up on the shallower but longer climbs, which is where I tend to lose it.

As alluded to, there’s also a difference between the average you achieve when really going for it and your overall average over weeks and months of riding.

On my “fast” road bike (not the tourer) I reckon my overall average is slightly above 15mph. Yesterday (for the first time in ages) I did a 30-mile route at just under 18mph – and it felt like it 😆

My point is, it depends on how you phrase the question “what is your average speed” and on what the response is relating to.

P.s. is using auto pause when stationary (non of that below 5mph nonsense) at traffic lights/while taking pictures classed as cheating?

Don’t really see it as cheating but I never use it.

When I got back into riding a few years ago I needed to stop a lot and rest. It was kind of a motivational thing to have the single average speed including those stops so as I stopped resting as much the number went up.

Just kept it that way ever since.

Cheers for the info, useful. I did go back and add the smiley as I realised it looked a bit more of an unfriendly comment rather than a cheerfully sarcastic northerner comment.

That’s OK, my comment would have looked unhelpful at best, and rude at worst without the extra gubbins I intended to post!

Good luck if you do decide to try and up your pace, it’s hard work but satisfying when you do see an improvement, remember though it takes time, and you will still have good days and bad days, look for the overall trends and above all make sure you are always still having fun, if it ever becomes more about the numbers than the enjoyment then you’ve gone too far 🙂

The speed you get will obviously vary but…

Tyres – even for a given width/purpose you can get a massive difference in rolling resistance. Your bigger tyres may work better on less than ideal surfaces, but there may be similar but far faster tyres available. A narrower tyre will be more aero but give higher rolling resistance at a given pressure (but you won’t be able to put as much pressure in a bigger tyre).

Different bikes:
Obviously something lighter will help you a bit up the hills, and if you have a narrower range cassette you’ll be in a more comfortable gear more of the time as long as you don’t need anything below the range you have. The main difference though is that a racier bike will put you in a more aero position, which will make a big difference as speeds increase. Lighter bikes are also surprisingly easy to honk up slightly too steep inclines on, so narrower cassettes are easier to get away with.

It sounds like you’re making good progress, without knowing a lot more about your route etc. I wouldn’t be able to say whether 20mph is achievable on that route for you, but maybe if you’re bothered take pics whilst moving and do get a faster bike if it matters to you. There is something nice about a fast road bike on a nice day.

OP 25c tyres at correct inflation +1mph
Short aero bars +2mph.

That gets you half way there at least.

This pretty much sums it up for me

20mph is more likely to be attained in a group or even just a pair, 17-18 is more than respectable on a normal road bike solo. And I am much faster on my proper road bike than my gravel bike on road.

I haven’t read any posts bar the first couple but has last weeks ‘I’m just wondering if my 26mph average over 40 miles is any good’ guy been on yet 🙂

P.s. is using auto pause when stationary (non of that below 5mph nonsense) at traffic lights/while taking pictures classed as cheating?

I don’t auto-pause but use the Garmin average and moving average speed to give me a measure of traffic congestion, lights and junction stops etc. for average and my ability on the second (how quickly I get back up to speed after the lights/traffic obstructions). The bigger the difference between them the faster I accelerate. It’s taken 5 years to get my commute average up to 18mph on a good day.