A real fear of flying.

There’s been a few ” getting it out there threads” so I thought I’d get this off my chest.

I’m shit scared of flying. I know I’m not unique but the mere thought of flying somewhere has me very stressed and very scared. so much so, the travelling to/from the necessary family holiday is a real trauma for those around me. I never fly if I don’t have to but have just been “told” I need to go to the US for work in January. Of course I’m wound up about it – unfamiliar plane, route, designation, seat allocation at the back has me quivering (see below).. Thing is what to do?

The potted history is that I didn’t start this way. My first ever flight was to NZ in ’95 and I loved it. However almost immediately after then then company won two contracts in the Western Isles & Shetland – I was the chose software trainer so off I went. To cut a long story short I had a lot of bad experiences on multiple journeys to those destinations – aborted landings, diagonal landings, very bad turbulence, blow away from the approaching Aberdeen by very strong winds, and a panicked take off through snow storm at full power.

I will add at this time of my life I went through some really bad stress with remortgaging (girlfriend left) and work. Work tried to force me on a route around the US to NZ and I didn’t want to go – the edict was “the flight or your job”. I actually passed out from stress in the airport and was pronounced unfit to fly. That date was Sept 11 2001 – yes really – on a United Airlines flight. I then had 6 months of anti depressents which I hated to get me “back up to speed”.

I then went to Malaysia for multiple trip. there I landed in a thunderstorm, experience 14hrs of turbulence on the way home, had a pilot state “if you look to the right, thats where the Iraqi’s are firing the missiles” 8O.

Nowadays if I have to fly, I sit clenching the armrests waiting for take off and the cocktail of Tamizipam, Gin & Diazepam to kick in on rare long haul flights, or brave a diazepam only trip on a short flight to the Spanish family holiday destination. If – on the long haul – I wake up mid flight I get very nervous and feel compelled to talk around talk to a stewardess/steward in the Galley. And if the seat belt signs go on, its panic stations.

Over 10 years I’ve tried hypnotherapy, TfT, Counselling, all the courses, CBT – the latest round of hypnosis having some effect on me, but I’m still very afraid. And now with the work trip booked, and Mrs K wanting to go away in September I’m wishing this would go away so life was easier for everybody.

Anyone else with similar experience or some advice? If anyone’s got over this I’d be very interested in your story!

So I’m not afraid of flying but I have been in a helicopter that had a “hard landing” onto a heli-deck. Hard enough to break the landing gear and require the boat head into port as it couldn’t take off. Given at the time I was on a helicopter every 2-3 weeks (offshore oil and gas) the next few flights were pretty stressful.
I think I was lucky in that I’d already done a fair few flights before then and so recognized it was a rare occurrence.

Are you flying economy? If so I’d really recommend spending the extra for an upgrade to business / premium economy as the extra space etc can make a big difference.

If we go long haul (we see family in Barbados every 3-4 years) I always go in the same premium economy seat. Familiarity is part of the coping strategy.

Is there a possibility that such a phobia might count as a disability, and thus your emplyer would have to make reasonable adjustments?

First google hit suggests maybe

“

Phobias

There is nothing in UK law to prevent a phobia from being classified as a disability under the Equality Act 2010. However, the phobia would have to have a serious and long-term effect on the sufferer’s normal day-to-day activities. This was not the case in Pawlicka v St John and Red Cross Defence Medical Welfare Service, in which the claimant’s “necrophobia” (a fear of dead bodies or things associated with death) was found not to be a disability. The Government’s guidance on the definition of disability says that, while an “occasional apprehension about significant heights” would not be covered, agoraphobia – which can mean that an individual is unable to go out – could be classed as a disability.”[\quote]

I’d talk to your employer. Tell them what you told us, then suggest it might be a disability, then ask for business class or premium economy, if you think it’ll help. You could also ask for some therapy or treatment, since it’s them making you fly.

My large employer falls over itself to make you comfortable and safe in your job, their driving hours limitations are so conservative for example that we regularly break them because the alternative is more bother (I think it’s four hours). But then they are American and probably terrified of being sued.

Oh and for the Spanish hols, I’d stick the family on a plane and then drive.

‘d stick the family on a plane and then drive.

Same issue with high bridges and flyovers

I’m scared of flying also. i’d generally rather walk, but I’ve learned to qualify everything and that it’s not that bad really. Turbulence does get to me, I have been known to be reduced to a quivering, sweating wreck.
I have a system I go through each time that gives me some peace of mind and I can tolerate it.
I don’t ever drink on flights.
I can see where you’re coming from with your fear to be honest and two opposing things spring to mind –
It can’t get any worse. Things can only improve. Yo’ve seen how bad it can be and you’re still here!
If it really is that bad, just don’t get on a plane. It’s not bloody worth it. Just flatly refuse.

I flew twice a week on average for a year back in the late 90’s my conclusion is flying is a truely unpleasant nasty way to travel and sometimes can be really terrifying experience (so you have every right to be afraid). Taking off in a thunderstorm from Cork watching the cabin crew being thrown around like rag dolls. Staying at the same hotel as the American Airline cabin crew in LA, though poolside was very pleasant I heard some bone tingeing tales in the bar 😯 . I got to dislike it so much I changed profession (and I haven’t flown since).

Still the safest way to travel….

Love flying – hate turbulence.

Had a bad experience many years ago sitting near the back of a 747 with my 80 year old gran who had short term memory loss. Stressful to the extreme – the back end of a 747 is known for its fishtailing effect.

Since then I break out into a cold sweat at the least sign of turbulence – not because the small stuff scares me but because I know how quickly an how bad the big stuff can come along.

What helps for me:

Window seat. Helps to be able to see a reference point.
IPAD games – concentrate really hard on a simple/fast click game when it starts getting bumpy.
Count-down – you know how fast you are going so you know how many seconds it takes to travel a mile. If a storm is 10 miles wide then you know as you count the seconds the miles are passing. It doesn’t change anything but every few seconds is another mile forward.
Never drink booze.
Eat before the flight – on the off chance that you manage to fall asleep, the last thing you want is to be woken up at 10pm for a meal. I tell the hostie if I’m asleep just leave me, please.
Drugs – a tranquilizer helps. It’s still bumpy but you don’t care . . .

🙂

Still the safest way to travel….

doesn’t make it any more pleasant.

I think @PeterPoddy has it.
It sounds like you’ve already seen conditions as bad as it gets and yet in the end you got there safely in one piece.
So if the worst scenario works out fine, then by extension an average trip shouldn’t be anything to worry about.

the wings are the only thing doing the flying, the tube you’re in is just along for the ride.

Skydiving. Seriously. Do a tandem on a sunny day, blow it all away.

Or, have you tried the BA course? Have heard good things, but never needed it myself.

Oh, and a better seat isn’t necessarily an answer. Had a a very, very scared flyer a couple of rows behind me on a brand new CX A350 recently. Staff did very well to help calm him down. Equally, had someone giving birth to a dolphin on a flight between LBA and SOU last week. It’s flying that’s the issue, not if you’re getting a particular vintage port!

Above war stories interesting but please go and see your GP as next step. Anxiety is a real thing and they will help.

I hate flying too, really hate it. Always think something big will happen (terrorists, mid-air collision, birds, thunderstorms) the lot. But my family live abroad so unless i catch a boat i cannot get to see them so have to fly.
Sometimes i can be okish and even ride the turbulence and think I’ve cracked it – but it comes back.

The oddest strategy that helped me is to get on a plane with a feeling of impending doom then when it all goes well i feel happy bit by bit – this being during the flight. I actually look forward to the landing then and try to adopt a more rational logic to the mechanics of landing.

I have recently flown to South Korea then Guam for work but the doctor gave me some powerful pills that knocked me out – i wont do that again.

Fear of flying engulfed me once at Bergen heliport.
This was after 15 yrs of working offshore.
I was stopped in my tracks,nothing i could do or any mental persuasion, was getting me on the chopper.
I was pretty calm at the time just mind boggled where the fear came from.
That’s it,no way was i going to go on another chopper.
Went to the receptionist and told her my story and that i was just going to go home.
She suggested i should go to speak to the pilot first,it might help she said.
Anyway i went to have a chat,told him about my dilemma very calmly he ran through the flight procedure,told me the checks that they do,also he said that he’d been flying choppers for 30yrs and he wouldn’t take it off the tarmac, if he wasn’t 100% with everything.
You need to trust me he said!! Wow! when he said that,my fear just went out the window.
That was 10 yrs ago,never any issues after that.
If the subconscious has issues with trust and control,then fear will raise its head.
You’ll find it very difficult to overrule the subconscious mind,work with the trust and control isues and see how you get on.
Best of luck

Anxiety is a real thing and they will help.

work with the trust and control isues and see how you get on.

I do suffer from stress and anxiety, been to the docs and the above treatments are based on thats as well as just Flying per se.

I’ve done the BA and Virgin course. I’m ok with the mechanics and the noises, its the turbulence and out of control bit that gets me.

A couple of people have mentioned not drinking booze – reasons why? I would, on the basis it strengthens the effects of the Tamazipan. I avoid coffee on flying days as that is suppose to have the opposite effect.

Maybe you should read up on how big airliners are actually flown, as opposed to little aircraft that go to Scottish islands?

I do occasionally get a bit irrationally worried during flights. Then I think about the air crew. They do this every day, on the short trips it’s two or three times a day, for their whole working lives, and they are still alive.

the turbulence and out of control bit that gets me.

Perhaps, as above, some time talking to pilots would help? I might be a little lucky, as my father was a pilot, so I grew up knowing with all certainty that flying was/is a good thing. An exciting thing, even. I still get a frisson of excitement as the taps are opened, and that acceleration begins, and I fly too much these days!

I do appreciate how hard it is, Kryters. It’s an odd one though, as you’ll happily jump in a car and steam off down the road, a road with lorries, cars, etc not six feet from you, all banging along at a pace. That’s a far, far more dangerous environment, and it’s also one in which there’s never a nice person pouring you a cold refreshing beverage.

Go to your GP. I would expect you could get signed off for it as it seems so bad.

I used to be similar to you although not as severe, although I did have a couple of panic attacks before and after flights. What seemed to make it worse was more often than not a plane would crash the day before I flew, making the papers in the airport WH Smiths a must avoid. Happened again this year with the Egypt flight.

A combination of having a strong word with myself ( a series of very wet UK holidays didn’t help so I changed my thought process to actually want to go abroad) and hypnotherapy sessions have reduced the anxiety quite significantly although the preference is still for several drinks prior to take off irrespective of flight times, however I can fly without alcohol. Films on the iPad help the time go quicker, and noise cancelling headphones help distract the mind from listening out for every change in the engine noise.

People that manage to fall asleep before the plane even takes off annoy me immensely.

Yep. Used to be okay with it but now hate it. Was convinced I was going to black out and end up in a puddle of my own wee last time so made frequent bathroom trips. Usually close my eyes and try and relax before and during takeoff and if I’ve got through that then the rest is ok.

Try to take the train when I can now

CaptainFlashheart – Member
I still get a frisson of excitement…

I’m not sure which makes me more nervous, the flying or that statement coming from you 😉

Likewise Monkfish – I convince my self to get on the plane because Barbados and all inclusive Spanish Island retreats are such nice places to be. The (prescribed – I’ve just ordered a repeat prescription) medication helps not only on the day but because Tamizipan has a side effect of memory loss of during the period of time your on it. know I ws on the last long haul flight, but I can’t remember the details which is a good thing.

Get some flying lessons in a light aircraft!

Once you can hurl yourself round the sky in a plane made out of spit and string, being Self Loading Freight in a Jumbo is easy peasy!

I had a fear of flying that usually I drowned in drink and drugs. Not a great combination with (now) a small child. I missed a flying with confidence course run by ba but bought the book and CD. It really helped. Not 100% free of worry, but considerably better.

People that manage to fall asleep before the plane even takes off annoy me immensely.

Not me! (Not allowed to lie it flat until after take off, but then I’m out for the night on a redeye!)

You love the thought of my frissons, Kryters! 😀

I convince my self to get on the plane because Barbados and all inclusive Spanish Island retreats are such nice places to be.

Flying itself can be fun, too. I always like to look out of the window, see if I can see a boat on the water, another plane flying, that sort of thing. Greenland from height is beautiful. The approach to Changi at sunset is, well, beautiful.

You can make it enjoyable, I’m sure. After all…..

(I was at school with some of the family who own the big house on this beach. Never got an invitation, though. Bastards).

Get some flying lessons in a light aircraft!

Is there anyone on here afraid of flying who has done this? I’ve been considering it, but really don’t know if I’ll actually die of fright in a plane that can be blown sideways by a mild breeze.

I’m a pretty nervous flier. OKish sometimes. Other times panicking. Always with clammy hands and an overactive mind. I do a lot of rationalising. And in the grand scheme of things, whilst some of the statistics are distorted by miles travelled, major air crashes are very rare. I don’t think a British Airliner has crashed since Lockerby? And when you think of how many thousands of flights there are each day… You’d have to be pretty unlucky to be on the wrong one. Most people won’t even know of anyone who’s been in an air crash.

When the rationalisation starts failing me (because in my mind, there’s still always THAT chance), I just start thinking “Sod it. Am I prepared to die?” And I have to find some kind of peace with that. If I can answer yes to that question, then I can let go of some of the fear.

It’s all about perception of risk isn’t it. Try and comfort yourself with statistics e.g
The flight is safer than the taxi journey to the airport (in the rain with a driver who’s just done a 12 hour overnight shift)
It’s safer on a plane than being in the house.
It’s way safer than flinging yourself down a steep hill on a mountain bike.

It’s all about perception of risk isn’t it.

tell that to the steward I watched being bounced off the ceiling.

The approach to Changi at sunset is, well, beautiful.

I love the approach into Singapore, especially when you fly past with the city on the left hand side and then circle in.

BUT the main benefit of flying is the chance it gives you to look for oxbow lakes or the potential formation of them.

Turbulence does get to me, I have been known to be reduced to a quivering, sweating wreck

I’m ok with the mechanics and the noises, its the turbulence and out of control bit that gets me.

Turbulence is nothing more than the air around the plane moving around and the plane moving with it. Aircraft are fully designed to fly safely in severe or extreme turbulence, way beyond the limits that you’ll ever be subjected to on a commercial flight.

For a real experience of turbulence and what it does, spend some time in a microlight or light aircraft, then despite the sometimes violent buffeting, you’ll learn that it really isn’t anything to be feared, and any turbulence you’ll subsequently experience on a modern commercial jet will pale into insignificance by comparison.

I’ve never been keen on flying. I think it maybe a result of seeing a plane crash at an air show when I was a kid. I just kept thinking about how the poor sods must have felt as it plummeted to the ground.

Anyway…..I have been getting better as I get older. I’ve even been known to talk at the airport these days. Last journey wasn’t much fun though. Our plane was delayed from taking off for 24 hours due to a fault with the undercarriage. We had been sitting on the plane for around an hour whilst they tried to fix it (they even called Boeing in Seattle) but had to get off to go to a hotel for the night. Everyone assumed that we would fly home in a different plane, so there were some worried faces the next day when we turned up to see the same plane waiting for us at the gate. My son spent the whole flight home listening for noises.

Just drink a glass of milk beforehand

Kryton57 – Member
Anyone else with similar experience or some advice? If anyone’s got over this I’d be very interested in your story!

Just exhale deeply when you feel there is a turbulent.

Then just give up the idea of the fear of dying in a plane crash unless you are destine to die that way.

Tell yourself the odd is slim to die in a plane crash but there is a slight chance as being honest to yourself.

Yes, I fear flying for many years … still do occasionally.

The worst time is when the plane has just taken off and the bloody pilot suddenly cut power which I am convinced had not reach the right altitude … even my father thought so and he was a jet plane engineer.

tell that to the steward I watched being bounced off the ceiling.

I’m trying to reassure Kryton, don’t spoil it 😀

imnotverygood – Member

Still the safest way to travel….

Per mile yes, per hour of activity much less so. 💡

I’ve gone from loving flying to being terrified of it.
I only fly for leisure, so will continue to do so for the sake of my other half.
No tips, I just man up and absorb the terror.

… didn’t read the post properly, ignore me.

Like my brother (Petrrpoddy) I am scared of flying. Going to the USA as my first foreign holiday was very stressful. However you’ve at least flown. You can do it, ok you depend on medication a bit but at least you are still doing it. I think that’s really positive as lots of people wouldn’t even entertain the thought of flying they are so scared.

I deal with turbulence perfectly fine. Why? The first time I experienced it I was reading I think and I instantly thought it felt like when I was a kid on the top of a double decker bus as it pitches and rocks going down the road. So I just imagine that instead which helps most of the time. If the turbulence is bad I just have to imagine harder!

It’s the takeoff and landing which I still struggle with but it gets better.

I have to say, I do find this thread very interesting! I’m a hot air balloon pilot and so often I hear “You wouldn’t get me up in one of these things”! I can’t understand why, but perhaps that’s down to experience, or knowledge?

I understand that going over a mile high in a picnic basket suspended below a bag of air is an unusual idea and one that could make people nervous. The fear of flying in a balloon might not be the same as the fear of flying in a plane or a helicopter, so this may not help you, but here goes.

The fear of flying (in a balloon) is often mistaken for a fear of falling or vertigo.

“I get vertigo…”
Vertigo is when a person feels as if they or the objects around them are moving when they are not. Often it feels like a spinning or swaying movement. This may be associated with nausea, vomiting, sweating, or difficulties walking. It is typically worsened when the head is moved. Vertigo is the most common type of dizziness.
So that’s something they’ve heard and misdiagnosed themselves…

2) “Balloons aren’t safe”. Depending on how you massage the statistics, aviation is the safest form of transport and ballooning is the safest form of aviation. You’re more at risk in your car on the journey to the launch site than you are in the air. Travelling on an ‘A-road’ you may have a closing speed of 140mph+ with a bit of paint separating you with the oncoming traffic. 2000 deaths a year on UK roads doesn’t stop 3/4 of the population holding drivers licences and I’ll wager most of the rest using the roads at some point…

The balloon itself is a registered aircraft and is treated to the same 100hour our annual system checks. My 16 passenger balloon basket is not just wicker, there’s a steel frame in there and supporting cables too. There are 4 burners. Burner failures are very rare (I’ve only ever had one minor failure and it was still operational) so the chance of all 4 failing is very very rare and you can easily fly on just one. The envelope is fairly simple and failures are very rare. Most failures involve the control ropes inside and this doesn’t mean that the ballon will collapse or will be impossible to land safely. Tank failures are rare too, and most leaks are due to people not taking care of connection hoses or seals.
So that’s the kit taken care of!!!

3) Fear of falling…
I rationalise this thus. Imagine a normal pavement. One that you walk upon every day. You can fall over on it, you can dance or run on it and it’s simple to stay on it. You can send on the kerbstones on one leg like “Singing in the rain” and the world is fine.
Now imagine that the road isn’t there. Instead it’s a 200ft vertical cliff edge. Would you stand on one leg on the kerbstone now? Probably not and neither would I. I’m not a fan of ladders, the edges of tall buildings, cliffs etc. It’s that stomach wrenching feeling that you get when you over balance and you know it’s not going to end well. Like reaching the tipping point on your bike and then going over the bars in slow motion! The basket is around the same height as a bar. I’ve never felt like I’m going to fall over the top of a bar from a standing start, so you won’t get the fear of falling in the basket.

I still get nervous passengers though and why wouldn’t people be nervous. They’re putting their trust (and lives) in my hands and they don’t know me from Adam. As a company we try to be as professional as possible whilst still making it fun! It’s a difficult combination to get right. Make customers feel like your friend… A friend that you trust. Aaaaannnddd relax. I don’t want nervous passengers. They’re the loose cannons that don’t do as they’re told or adopt the correct landing position and put myself in danger or distract me. People that panic are the worst, so I drill the info that people need into them. I give them all the information that they need so that there are no surprises for them and therefore they all react exactly as I want them to.

Accidents are caused by human error, wether that’s in the design of the aircraft through to the guy that flies it. Unfortunately there’s only one pilot in a balloon, so if he or she isn’t concentrating or is under the influence, then you may have problems. Flying into power lines with the envelope normally results in people nearby not having electricity for a few hours, whereas hitting power lines with the basket normally results in all on board perishing. The electricity tends to arc between the tanks and the explode. I take off with around 400 litres of propane (BBQ cylinders typically have 20), hence why when the tanks rupture things become terminal very quickly.
Planes and helicopters are more complex and they have more (different) people involved with servicing and flying them. My balloons are serviced by one person and only flown by me, so I know them inside and out. The potential for something going wrong on a plane could be greater as more people work on more complex and numerous systems. But all of this has been thought of and as a general rule of thumb, even major system failures can be overcome or negotiated around. These still come under the heading of human error though… More and more systems are checked and double checked by humans and minor errors are picked up more often than ever because computers and sensors are doing more checks than we could cope with. So lets say that the ‘system element’ of the equation of fear can be negated to the point that it’s in the territory of lottery wins.

So now we’ve negated the ground crew, now you’re looking a the pilot himself. To be honest the Virgin pilots who got on board after drinking in the club lounge were idiots. It just goes to show how advanced modern aviation equipment is that an air crew can fly something so big pi55ed. More checks are required to stop this from happening rather than reissuing guidance about “No alcohol within 8 hours of flying” or ‘Bottle to Throttle’. I’d wager that the amount of hours spent on simulators mean that landing a plane is a motor function that could still be carried out when slightly over the drink drive limit – like if you decide to drive home after 2 or 3 pints. I do not condone this – obviously!
In ballooning, a UK Commercial licence (CPL(B) as opposed to PPL(B)), is the hardest to obtain compared to others worldwide. Other countries, Egypt for example don’t have such high standards… However the airline industry has worldwide standards and you have to assume that if you’re flying BA, Emirates etc, rather than ‘butt-fudge-nowhere-airlines’ that you’re in safe hands.

It’s normally a string of minor events that cascade that make a disaster. Something where any one of those things wouldn’t normally matter but together, stuff hits the fan. These things are becoming rarer as H&S / machine tolerances / computer safety systems become more stringent. So the potential is there, but it’s getting smaller ever year. We are always learning from experience and the AAIB (Air Accidents Investigation Branch) are nothing if not thorough.

So let’s assume;
1) The chance of the kit failing is so small it’s irrational to consider it as a factor. The wings wobble during turbulent conditions, but they’re designed to do that rather than snap or transfer that energy to the smart tube that you’re sitting in. etc etc.
2) Human factors have been negated to such an extent that where humanly possible all precautions have been taken. However the you’re talking about big passenger carrying planes that have a crew (ie not just one person who knows whats going on) so even if factors overtake the pilots ability, there’s a group of people to get you down in one piece and a computer and sensors that can do it remotely too!

What’s left. Well the weather is definitely an issue for balloons, not so much for planes and helicopters as they can divert up and over or around potential hazards. For me, if the weather looks unsuitable, I don’t fly. Simples. Forecasting is getting better every year, so the potential for the weather to be an issue is becoming ever smaller. Again simulators come in to their own here, by giving pilots the ability to land in the harshest conditions they’ll ever encounter. You might be cacking it as you’re coming in sideways in a hurricane force sidewind and the tyres won’t like it a bit, but you’ll all walk away.

Knowledge is power. I once got the jitters up in a balloon (that I was piloting!). So I rationalised it. I’d checked everything, which was all fine. The kit is over engineered for what I was doing and my skills were high. Relax.

What should the OP do?
I’d suggest doing a flight where you’re in control, either in a balloon, helicopter or plane as you feel appropriate. Get a feel for it. You may even go on to get your PPL!
Chat to a pilot, an engineer, even a crash investigator. Go to your local aerodrome. Chat to as many people as you can. No doubt you’ll meet pilots who are happy to wax lyrical about what Sky-Gods they are and how many great landings they’ve done, but you’ll also meet the people that fix the things that people break and see a plane stripped down. Don’t forget that there’s a big difference between a private and a commercial pilot!
Knowledge IS power and will hopefully help you get over your fear of flying.
PM me if I can help (I’m based in Kent)