Viewing 36 posts - 1 through 36 (of 36 total)
  • A couple of questions about lawyers.
  • wanmankylung
    Free Member

    As many of you know I’m going through a rather acrimonious divorce with horrendous child contact/residence issues. The solicitor that I’ve got representing me is asking for my directions. They have done this a few times and for most things if they’ve been simple enough I’ve made up my own mind and given them directions. My issue is that when I ask them for advice one where I stand on particular points of law, what my specific rights and responsibilities are in certain circumstances are and their opinion on how best to proceed I dont get any answers. I mostly correspond with them via email as they are very difficult to get on the phone. Legal Aid is paying.

    My questions are this, keeping in mind the legal aid funding part:
    Is not replying to specific questions as outline above normal for solicitors?
    Should I change solicitor?

    leegee
    Full Member

    I’d try and get a face to face and then explain your concerns.

    Jakester
    Free Member

    Well, if you’re instructing them to give you advice and they don’t, that sounds a little odd.

    Have you phrased it as a specifically-worded series of questions, such as “if I do X, what happens when Y does Z” or similar, or are you simply leaving an open-ended instruction such as ‘let me know what happens’?

    I caveat this by saying it could be that your LA representation order doesn’t cover the work you’re asking them to do (I don’t do LA and I’ve not really any experience with it) but generally speaking they have a duty (subject to the terms of their retainer) to advise you. It’s up to you whether or not to take the advice, but if you’re not getting it in the first place, I’d be asking to speak to the Senior Partner (or complaints partner if different). They should provide you with their complaints procedure up front, or at the least on request.

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    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    Have you phrased it as a specifically-worded series of questions, such as “if I do X, what happens when Y does Z” or similar, or are you simply leaving an open-ended instruction such as ‘let me know what happens’?

    It’s more of the is she legally allowed to do this, that and the next thing? Am I legally allowed to do this that and the next thing?

    Jakester
    Free Member

    It’s more of the is she legally allowed to do this, that and the next thing? Am I legally allowed to do this that and the next thing?

    I suppose if you need that information in order to give them instructions, then they’re not doing their job if they don’t provide it to you. All sounds very odd.

    As I said, I would ask to speak to the complaints partner and take it up with them. It could be a simple as the person dealing not understanding what information you want them to give to you.

    crankboy
    Free Member

    I think you have a failure to communicate that is their problem not yours . It is my duty as a lawyer to try and ensure my client understands his position and the relevant issues. It is hard when people ask can she he legally do x y or z because the answer particularly in family law is rarely yes or no. Even a clear breach of a court order may not result in any effective sanction.
    I hate emails from clients they can result in lengthy and confusing exchanges I much prefer office appointments and telephone calls.

    Euro
    Free Member

    There’s a guy at our local solicitor club who would win any divorce. He has 372 world titles but can’t get a job despite being the greatest solicitor the world (he has 895 world titles).

    Oops, sorry wrong thread 😳

    gatsby
    Free Member

    Based on some of your posts on here (and making an educated guess as to what one of your emails might be like), I would guess being wankmylung’s solicitor would be rather challenging.

    bigyinn
    Free Member

    I’d disagree, wml is probably one of the most plain speaking people i know. (Possibly a bit too plain speaking for their own good at times. :wink:)

    gatsby
    Free Member

    All well and good if you’re the one giving the opinion. Asking the question (possibly over, and over, and over, and over, and over to try and get the answer you want) would be a completely different teapot of frogs.

    BigDummy
    Free Member

    Like IT-people, lawyers (I am one) easily convince themselves that the client is the one with the problem.

    However, lay clients also tend to massively overestimate how helpful a cheap lawyer is going to be. Huge sympathy for crankboy’s post regarding the difficulty of giving definitive advice in an area where judges make it up as they go along.

    🙂

    hels
    Free Member

    Bit harsh there Gatsby give the man a break. He is asking for help re his divorce lawyer, not selecting which million pound yacht to buy.

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    One of the questions that I asked was a simple “Dawn has dramatically and unilaterally reduced the times that I can see my children. Is she legally allowed to do this and what are my options for getting more time with my kids before court action?”

    I hate emails from clients they can result in lengthy and confusing exchanges I much prefer office appointments and telephone calls.

    I’ll try that route then.

    ourmaninthenorth
    Full Member

    Lawyers don’t make decisions. The clients decide, based on advice from the lawyer.

    What this really means is that the client decides and the lawyers don’t give advice; they just give a series of unpalatable options, none of which answer the client’s question.

    I should know: I’m a solicitor. (For clarity I no longer work as a lawyer, so am happy to criticise freely.)

    gatsby
    Free Member

    Dawn has dramatically and unilaterally reduced the times that I can see my children…

    Look on the bright side, only another week or so to go before the mornings start getting a bit lighter… 😉

    crankboy
    Free Member

    in answer to your question the answers are as follows
    1) in the absence of a specific court order specifying times of access yes she can legally reduce the times she agrees to.
    2) talk to her try and reasonably negotiate an agreement as to access times you are happy with.
    3) If this does not work apply to court for an order for better access times
    4)if you do 3 and get what you want she still might not obey the order in which case you either a)lump it or b)apply to have her committed to prison
    5)if you chose option b it may not actually result in her being sent to prison she will then be pissed off and aware the court is toothless and will mess you around more.
    This is off the cuff and not intended to be specific advice. But you can see why even simple questions produce less than helpful responses in an email exchange.

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    crankboy – thanks for that. Much aprreciated.

    So much for equal rights an responsibilities.

    Might start pestering MSPs and MPs. Start a campaign to get a decent law.

    pjt201
    Free Member

    To reiterate what Crankboy said above my FiL is a magistrate and operates mainly in family court and he would agree that they are generally toothless to enforce any decision they impose. The real issue is that no court wants to see either parent imprisoned over family matters so will almost always suggest mediation of some sort or another (unless there is clear violence or paedophilia involved, but then those cases are escalated to the crown court normally anyway).

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    the basic problem is that a mother will almost never be sent to jail for ignoring an access order

    tough though it is you only real options are

    1) negotiate with her

    2) give the lottery of a whimsical judge a roll and hope she will do what is asked.

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    Hmm – I suspect that someone from the solicitors firm uses STW. Got an email at close of play today with answers to most of my questions.

    Looks like we do still live in the dark ages and that either getting involved in politics or making myself a royal pain in the jacksie of politicians is the only way forwards.

    deepreddave
    Free Member

    gatsby – Member
    I would guess being wankmylung’s solicitor would be rather challenging.

    Made me laugh even if it was a typo. The light comment was even better.
    I’d echo the later advice above. The resident parent can be terribly manipulating and not act in the children’s best interest; recourse for the none resident parent is hard work, uncertain and will take a long time for any formal action to bite.
    My advice would be to be reasonable at all times, focus discussions on what’s best for the kids and keep a record of all communications, times and events. Get counsel from friends and don’t react immediately if you’re likely to over react. Good luck.

    scaredypants
    Full Member

    What the lawyers said up there about toothless courts:

    I only have one divorce to speak of that happened “close” enough to me to have heard first hand that a judge said to the mother at one point (regarding access) “you have lied to the court and you are damaging your children. My only recourse is to send you to jail, and I don’t want to do that. How often would you like the children to see their father ?”

    I wish you good luck, and much patience

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    The resident parent can be terribly manipulating and not act in the children’s best interest; recourse for the none resident parent is hard work, uncertain and will take a long time for any formal action to bite.

    That’s the big issue that I have the problem with. Although we have equal rights and responsibilities I wasn’t allowed to become the resident parent.

    genghispod
    Free Member

    When I got divorced about 10 years ago, the real decision was made by the CAFCASS officers. Had I known then what I know now, I could have saved £20k in Legal Aid fees.

    My advice is get CAFCASS (or whatever they may be called now) involved. I found them fair on both occasions (my ex-wife contested so we did it all again) and they advise the judge as to the circumstances; their recommendation holds more weight than all your bickering and solicitors letters. Good luck, as a Dad the odds are stacked against you but if it matters enough to you they can be overcome.

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    From what I’ve been told, and it may have been much simplified, the court arranges for a court reporter or independent solicitor to visit both parties, their families and speak with the children and their school. They then form an opinion on what time the kids should spend with each parent. The sherrif or whatever rarely deviates from what the court reporter says.

    Anyway, mediation starts tomorrow, so we’ll see what happens there. I suspect that it will be nothing more than a tick box exercise that needs to be completed before court. Given that she’s saying that she will not agree to any joint custody arrangement. Hopefully that sort of instransigence will go against her. As will her reducing the amount of time that I get to see them after asking for more.

    Either way, she will regret being such a psycho when she is a miserable old bint whose kids dont speak to her because of what she did to their father.

    Cletus
    Free Member

    Hey WML you were sounding ok until the last two paragraphs. Be the better person however hard it is. You will be able to look your kids in the eye when they are older and honestly say you had their best interests at heart. That is worth a lot.

    deepreddave
    Free Member

    Whilst the children’s interest has to come first, it’s shocking that the court gives such little regard to a fathers only chance to be a father. The starting point should be equal custody and the system should work towards that unless circumstances/behaviours etc suggest different would be appropriate.
    You can get a good result but you will have to work hard for it.

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    There’s no wonder that a lot of fathers just disappear out of their kids lives for good. Trust me, it would be much easier to just bugger off to the other side of the planet never to be seen again than go through this crap. That would be the easy way out though. My kids deserve the best and I’ll do my best to give it to them regardless of the barriers that are put in the way.

    thegreatape
    Free Member

    I haven’t anything constructive to add, but my mate at work is going through the same situation and sadly it is a very slow process. I think you just have to hang in there for the long haul for the weans sake. Good luck with it.

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    Well that’s the first mediation session done. Funnily enough no ground gained or conceded. £230/hr for 2hrs. I’m in the wrong game.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    😥

    crankboy
    Free Member

    play the long game always be reasonable always maintain contact with the kids ,never bring them into the rows . They will remember and appreciate this as they grow up. Also as time passes she will probably want you to have more contact so that she can do other things.
    One of my mates has been / is going through your world over the years there have been demands sulks with held visits and even an assault by the then new now ex boyfriend of his ex. But his relationship with his children has remained strong because he has held on in there and fought his battles away from them. Their view of their mother is much less rosy she has tried to use them as a weapon ruined weekends by cancelling their access at the last minute and generally plaid games with their heads and they know it.

    duckman
    Full Member

    Crankboy nails it. Having been through it,the children grow,if you dont use them as a weapon,they will recognise it as they grow.Court ordered access is as much use as a chocolate teapot as the Mother will decide whether you see them or not. If you can’t say anything nice to her,stay away and just talk about the child. This is one instance where the law really is an ass and court orders are a waste of time.

    As to those digging him up about the other thread,I honestly hope you never have to go through this.

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    You have something incredibly important to discuss in the presence of a solicitor. Do you A) take a couple of hours off work in 3 days time, or B) schedule an appointment for a month from now which you have ensured that the other person can’t make it to because that’s the only time that you let them see thier kids?

    If I didn’t laugh I’d cry.

    deepreddave
    Free Member

    crankboy – Member
    play the long game always be reasonable always maintain contact with the kids ,never bring them into the rows

    This is the ideal of course but very difficult to achieve in practice especially if one parent uses them, or withholding access, as a weapon. In addition, as they get older their opinions can be very persuasive to parent and court if they want more time with the non-resident parent. I think the realistic objective is to try your best to minimise their involvement.

    I’m guessing it’s B. Amazing how some parents can be so blind as to what’s best for the children.

    As an aside, I’ve acted as a mediator in a lot of dispute scenarios but more for £20ph than £230. I’m currently thinking that there must be a demand for cheaper mediation and having been through a challenging divorce I’d be prepared to help other couples for costs plus not a lot.

    wanmankylung
    Free Member

    It was B

    As an aside, I’ve acted as a mediator in a lot of dispute scenarios but more for £20ph than £230. I’m currently thinking that there must be a demand for cheaper mediation and having been through a challenging divorce I’d be prepared to help other couples for costs plus not a lot.

    There is a huge demand for cheaper mediation, but those services are massively oversubscribed and it would likely be the middle of next year before we got to see them.

    BTW, her latest stunt is to book the middle child in for a block of football coaching. That football coaching takes place on a wednesday 4:30 until 6:30. Bet you can’t guess the time that she lets me see the kids during the week.

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