Why give Greece more cash?

At least they’re not making a Drachma out of a crisis.

Chapeau

“Enjoyed” listening to Varoufakis on R4 is morning while driving up M40 – up until they bought Bloody Peston and his sources in.

Now for Europe to show its metal. How do you execute an orderly exit. There has been long enough to prepare for this. Time to help the Greeks properly now….

Time to help the Greeks properly now…

I fear their version of “properly” may vary from yours, THM

(hope the hospital visit went well)

Time to help the Greeks properly now….

Whaf makes you think they will do that? Is there some aspect of Lagarde, Dijsselbloem, Schauble, Noonan, and all the rest of the sad crew that makes you think they share the tiniest gram of common human decency? They are liars and crooks to the core, and I’m sure they will continue to demonstrate that in the days to come.

True

(Crap but thanks v much)

Don’t they have an IMF payment which is due on Tuesday, the deadline for which won’t be extended again and which they simply don’t have the money to pay, hence they will be effectively bankrupt. They can’t just bumble along and ignore that any more. All of which happens before the referendum, so something has to break before that.

I assume he knew that when he called it
I assume he is gambling that the EU will react

Plus pensions and salaries to pay

Funny to look back on the threads from 2-3 years ago on this topic!!

Leaving aside the poor economics and social consequences, Tsipras’ final stunt was at least interesting politically. Just a shame that this is real life not a game

It’s unclear what the referendum will be about next week – the offer from the Troika has been withdrawn…

I have a friend on holiday there at the moment. She’s not massively into economics and current affairs so I doubt she’ll have been expecting this! She’s posting holiday photos on Facebook but as yet no-one’s commented that the ATMs are being turned off… this is when ‘economics’ and real life collide

Funny to look back on the threads from 2-3 years ago on this topic!!

I think it’s hilarious how they could have defaulted 5 years ago.

Greece’s best option is an orderly default

“The €110bn bail-out agreed by the European Union and the International Monetary Fund in May only delays the inevitable default and risks making it disorderly when it comes”.

June 28, 2010……..five years ago to the day.

Indeed the offer has gone.

My pa came back this weekend – hopefully. I did tell her to take lots of cash.

Some sweaty (don’t panic ducks) Eurocrats tonight. Makes our referendum a bit silly until we know what the endgame is…

Good spot to that link Ernie. NR will be in his element now. Nowt better than a crisis for him. But as all Keynesians know, creditors also have to take the hit. Ignore the lessons of history…

aracer – Member

Don’t they have an IMF payment which is due on Tuesday, the deadline for which won’t be extended again

I’d be very surprised if it isn’t tbh. Bet you 20p?

Varoufakis was arguing for two loans to be netted off this morning.

Interesting that is was left to Draghi to pull the plug.

Political expediency can trump the laws of economics in the short term, but the dismal science always wins in the end. Politicians who forget this truism do so at their peril 😉

Well I’m not entering into a deal with somebody with unknown liquidity.

How do you feel about relaxing your normal criteria, and overlooking obviously inaccurate figures, and then declaring it to be all my fault when in 5 years time I’ve not paid up?

It’s Sunday night, the liquidity is a given.

Piraeus Bank CEO announced that banks will stay closed for the whole week.

That’s sounds like a sensible idea. Only if you’re going to deny all responsibility for making up the figures though.

Hold on you two you need a highly credible independent source prepared to say and do anything for money know for its moral and impartial reports on accounts

Euro is free fall against Sterling and Dollar.

ft euro sterling fx

Good time to buy a canyon? Every cloud and all that….

The Avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

This will end in fire.

Very apt quotes from my favourite Vorlon.

Won’t be pretty and I’m glad I’m not Greek as I’d be one of those poor b’stards camped out round the cash machine.
What happens when you cannot get cash out to pay for food or your kids proscription?

How long before the looting starts?

teamhurtmore – Member
“Enjoyed” listening to Varoufakis on R4 is morning while driving up M40 – up until they bought Bloody Peston and his sources in.

Now for Europe to show its metal

Can’t beat a bit of Euro metal. Mettle may be more useful, but here we go…

Yanis Varoufakis the Homer Simpson of Finance Ministers. Greek banks will be shut on Monday! I can’t see how they will open after that. Guardian suggests they will be shut for a week until after the referendum. If the referendum is No I can’t understand how they will open at all.

Great ride today, will catch up on the thread some other time, will be office early.

We don’t see the number of incidents here as our security forces are working hard to keep us safe.

It always amazes me that in the war on terror, they always manange to foil 99.9999% of planned attacks. But in the war on drugs, they are lucky if they stop 1% of it getting through. 😆

Another conundrum there is that when there was/is a real threat of domestic terrorism, ie the IRA, their success ratio was/is terrible.

Suspicous? me? Never! 😆

Either we’re dealing with some really dim witted “islamic” terrorists, or threats we face are blown out of all proportion is the only conclusion i can come to there.

I hope this is the beginning of the end for the EU. Their treatment of Greece throughout this boringly elongated crisis demonstrates how little they care about the people of Europe, and how far they will go to protect the “integrity” of the EU project.
And the UK is not wholly out of the words economically, if the crisis ignites then our housing bubble could implode, with Arthur and Mildred queuing up outside the banks again.
Nothing was fixed in 2008, the can was kicked down the road.

Indeed the offer has gone.

Interesting point. If the troika thought it was a good and fair solution on Saturday, is it now no longer good and fair? If they thought it was the right thing to do one day, is it wrong the day after? Do they admit that it was just a game, and not actually a sincere attempt to find the right way forward for Greece and for the EU?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/28/the-greeks-for-whom-all-the-talk-means-nothing-because-they-have-nothing

Still, let’s all laugh at funny cartoons, eh?

Far bigger things to get in a sweat about THM…Since I am flying to Crete tonight 😆 I anticipate a mid air whip round for “petrol money” on the return journey.

Their treatment of Greece throughout this boringly elongated crisis demonstrates how little they care about the people of Europe

boringly?

Why give Greece more cash?

They will. There will be a sudden compromise.

In 3yrs time they’ll be on 500billion euros of debt. Its akin to quietly keep giving them money frightened and scared and hoping someone else will sort the problem (or more likely) it’ll be another German Chancellor (etc)’s problem to tarnish their reputation in the future.

Look at Bliar- how much crap did he get for the 2008 recession? None. He went.

Northwind – Member

How do you feel about relaxing your normal criteria, and overlooking obviously inaccurate figures, and then declaring it to be all my fault when in 5 years time I’ve not paid up?

Nail… head. The Germans (and everyone else) knew the Greeks (and the Italians, Portugese, Spanish) all basically made up the figures. And that they were all works of fiction. The Greeks employed Goldman Sachs to make everything look rosey. A really reputable bunch!

The EU knew it, yet they admitted them anyway because it suited them. They couldn’t have anyone pointing out awkward economic realities about their grand political project now, could they?

Its like mortgage lenders and estate agents at the height of the last housing boom, issuing 100%+ ‘self-certified’ mortgages, where you made a claim as to how much you earned, without any prooof, and they accepted that at face value

The EU turned a blind eye to it all for reasons of political expediency, and this is the inevitable end result

It does make me laugh that people are taking sides, and looking for a good guy/bad guy narrative. There in’t one. Both sides are as guilty as each other for this shambles.

They will. There will be a sudden compromise.

yep, esp if the markets keep falling. German will panic and agree to a modest haircut, just enough to keep this farce going for another year…..

It does make me laugh that people are taking sides, and looking for a good guy/bad guy narrative. There in’t one. Both sides are as guilty as each other for this shambles.

Yep, they’re both as stupid as each other. Locked into an abusive marriage which neither has the guts to call time on.

The EU knew it, yet they admitted them anyway because it suited them. They couldn’t have anyone pointing out awkward economic realities about their grand political project now, could they?

Only two EU countries satisfied the convergence criteria for the Euro before it was launched in 1999, Luxemburg and Finland, all the others failed. Germany failed on two criteria – budget deficit and debt. The rules were bent for everyone, including for France and Germany, not just Greece.

Its all about degrees though, isn’t it ernie?

Greece is showing just how far outside the criteria it really was. I rememeber reading that the main reason Gordon Brown kept us out of the Euro was that he could see how far Italy was away from satisfying the conditions, yet was still being let in. That convinced him the whole thing was being made up as they went along.

And here we are…..

Can you imagine where this country would be now if we’d have been in the Euro and not been able to devalue the currency, and been relient on those who have been demonstrating their detatchment from reality for the last 5 years, and slavish following of idealogical dogma, regardless of the consequences?

and been relient on those who have been demonstrating their detatchment from reality for the last 5 years, and slavish following of idealogical dogma, regardless of the consequences?

That equally applies to any Tory minister, IDS and the poor must be punished or Osbourne and we must cut our way to growth!

IDS and the poor must be punished

I thought it was ‘the poor must die quietly without anyone creating too much fuss’ ?

DWP Block Release Of Figures On Number Of People Dying After Benefits Stopped

I thought it was ‘the poor must die quietly without anyone creating too much fuss’ ?

Wasn’t that a manifesto commitment?

Or was it tax credits for pushing disabled people under buses? Can’t recall.

I thought it was to do with legalising peasant hunting, as a substitute for foxes.