just wondering if anyone could shed any light on this mystery? I understand like anything it needs to be developed. But for a decent one you are looking at around £100.

Its just a piece of plastic, forgetting about research and development cost’s it cant cost much to physically produce one. So working on that theory are the R&D costs really that high(no moving parts as such)?? Or are they just making 100’s of % in profit?

My thoughts entirely, reckon there’s a fair bit of profit there!

I thought that, then got my straitline guide and looked at the amount of machining on it – that was a chunk of alu that spent a lot of time in an expensive machine, and is made in relatively small quantities. I doubt there’s huge profit in it.

Exactly why I ghettod one:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/deore-mech-polymorph-frankenchaindevice

£17 from SSC seems reasonable?

http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=56&products_id=362

http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=56&products_id=336

yes but its not £17 is it. Each of them is only half a chain device. Although saying thet they are quite cheap. But even at that price bet superstar are laffing their collective bollocks off at us.

Considering the amount of machining that#s gone into the backplate of THIS, AND the fact that it’s anodised, £50 for one of these is a bit of a bargain.

If you were to manufacture these yourself in the UK you’d probably pay £50 per backplate just for the machining, sod the rest of the processing that goes into it.

There is not that much machining goes into these things, a CNC milling machine would churn one of these out in seconds with minimal set up costs. Anodizing is cheap too considering the facility that anodizes these things will also anodize a whole host of other products to maintain a constant flow. The reality is these things are sold in relatively low volumes so the margin has to be higher to maintain the businesses viability.

they’ve always been silly money. they’re not particularly tech, but what really takes the proverbial is the latest incarnation of light and simple chain devices without pulleys or moving parts… they should surely be cheaper?
why do they need to be machined anyway? can’t you just cast them?
AND… why don’t Shimano make one? or SRAM?

Buy one second hand….

I paid about £30 for an e13 device 3 years ago – never skipped a beat since.

Does exactly the same job as a £130 2013 model.

I’m with xiphon, these things are usually comparitively cheap second hand.
I’m running E13 DRSs on two bikes. Paid about £30 for each. Best chain device I’ve had so far but I wouldn’t pay £130.

I thought that, then got my straitline guide and looked at the amount of machining on it – that was a chunk of alu that spent a lot of time in an expensive machine, and is made in relatively small quantities. I doubt there’s huge profit in it.

+1

Yes, manpower costs are probably minimal, but the machine making them probably cost as much as a house, even a cheep one like you’d find in a highschool D&T workshop will be £10-£20k, the one’s you see at hope etc will be 10x that.

I was discussing it with a local engineering company that mainly CNC’d batches of stuff for other companies when I got them to heliocoil a HOPE calliper for me and they reckoned between £50 and £75 per calliper in a batch of 1000, obviously HOPE make more and it’s all in house but that doesnt leave much profit if you’re trying to make 2 callipers, levers, assemble and bleed it and make a profit for <£250.

AND… why don’t Shimano make one? or SRAM?

they do…

There is not that much machining goes into these things, a CNC milling machine would churn one of these out in seconds with minimal set up costs.

Seconds? More like minutes, and probably more than one machine. Likely one churning out blanks of the right diameter and another to do the machining, looking at the straighline device there’s probably two or three different bits used as well.

As for casting, that’s even more costly, and harder to control.

Cheep devices are available with pressed back plates though (with a trade off in stength and weright).

http://dirt.mpora.com/featured/fresh-produce-shimano-saint-sm-cd50-chain-device.html

CNC milling machine

minimal set up costs

It amazes me too….the older MRP System 3’s were quite good value when you look at newer ones. At least it was all aluminium with rollers and a bash guard.

Now it’s a boomerang and some plastic!

I’ve recently bought a Superstar Plasma device and if I’m honest, it seems better made than my more expensive E13 LG1. It certainly flexes less.

I guess whilst people keep paying north of £100, they’ll keep costing that much.

I guess whilst people keep paying north of £100, they’ll keep costing that much.

Indeed, but if they weren’t prepared to pay that much then they probably wouldn’t exisit at all. As with the exception of superstar (which on the whole dont get great reviews) no one’s able to sell one cheep. If MRP/E13/Straitline could why wouldn’t they? They’d have 100% market share overnight.

no one’s able to sell one cheep. If MRP/E13/Straitline could why wouldn’t they? They’d have 100% market share overnight.

lets say e-13 made a £40 chain device then yes they would get more of the market but only until the others also made one. So if thats the going rate and they are happy with their market share then why bring the price down.

Chain devices used to be quite niche now they are common on lots of bikes therefore demand has gone up. That should bring the cost down.

A article on pink bike recently was about a $200 hardtail, that had a chain device. Now if you can have a full chain device on a bike at that price point why are really cheap ones (that work) not available?

Some full chain devices should be £100+ and although its still expensive, thats the price you pay for a premium product. However you should also be able to buy a £15-£20 one that also works. Maybe it wont last as long or look as nice or be light or quiet. But the choice is not even available.

The Shimano Saint one looks pretty good value for money if you don’t buy the taco part, which is mentally expensive at £40!

I’ve found my Superstar jobbie has been great and most of the stuff I’ve seen about them has been pretty positive for the money.

My cynical side thinks that the main chain guide manufacturers are making good enough margins on what they sell now that there is no need to offer a cheaper alternative. 1 X set ups are getting more popular, so they’re selling more without mch effort. We all bitch about how much stuff costs, but still pay for it! I think forks are hugely over proved too, but I’ll still end up buying some this summer.

We all bitch about how much stuff costs, but still pay for it!

No, some people pay for it (from the shops).

99% of my kit has been second hand, which I’m perfectly happy with, for the price I paid for it.

Haha somebody has to buy it new so that you can get it secondhand 😉 If everybody wanted secondhand…..

I don’t bitch about how much new kit costs 😉

Xiphon, I’m usually the same. A lot of my stuff is bought second hand, although sometimes it is nice to get new stuff, especially with forks.

This is partly because of how much new stuff costs. Either that or I buy in the sales, like my new wheels. As lovely ad they are, I couldn’t justify the £730 RRP. Half that was just about bearable.

MRP Ultraspeeds used to be over £200 back in the day, I’m happy with current prices!

My cynical side thinks that the main chain guide manufacturers are making good enough margins on what they sell now that there is no need to offer a cheaper alternative.

They do, with pressed steel back plates rather than CNC aluminium. they’re about 2/3rds the price.

The chain devicce on the cheep £200 bike will be just that, cheep, just like the forks won’t be 55 RC3ti’s.

Modified Jump Stop + Stinger= about £28 and 120g all in. The bash is added weight/cost if you don’t have one but you probably do if you’re looking at chain retention.

Check it:

I know of a brand new, custom chain device for less than £1…

http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=58086

johnellison – Member
Considering the amount of machining that#s gone into the backplate of THIS, AND the fact that it’s anodised, £50 for one of these is a bit of a bargain.

If you were to manufacture these yourself in the UK you’d probably pay £50 per backplate just for the machining, sod the rest of the processing that goes into it.

No way.

Stick a big plate on a mill. Get it fastened down & then stick some holes in it for each part (patterned onto the large plate). Bolt down through those holes to secure each part once you’ve milled it out. Then set it running & leave it for a while. Come back & hey presto; a load of parts ready for anodising….
You can cut alu very quickly.

The moulds for the plastic bits might cost a lot at low volumes, but once the volume comes up a bit, then they are cheap bits per part. And one multi-cavity mould will probably do all the bits you need for one chain device.

And Yep – I think that chain devices are well over-priced! A bit like those K-Edge anti-chainsuck devices and their alternative Garmin mount. I try to stay clear of these types of products.
My other half bought me some KCNC fancy jockey wheels at Christmas after I said it was the kind of ‘bling’ part that I’d like to treat myself too, but never would as they aren’t really a necessary purchase.

This topic sounds like the start of a kickstarter.com project to me. Or atleast a STW project if you don’t want to take it that far 🙂

Taco or Bash
Rollers or sliders
Ring size options
Mounting options
Materials

Discuss…