Mr Di2

if it was Di2 he’d be looking at double the cost.

I’m with the ‘hazard of riding in groups’ lot. if you don’t want to risk losing a £200 rear mech, don’t ride with one, a 105 mech is £30 and does the job just as well

Same as if it happened on a mountain bike ride, or if it were cars.

It’s nothing like another car crashing into you on the road. If you ride in a group, you do it with an understanding of the risks. It’s more like taking your car on a track day or entering into a race.

Threads like this really put me off going for a club ride. If some guy rode into me id not think for one moment about asking them to cover any damage. Id be rocking up knowing that a crash is a possibility, and if I Couldn’t afford to replace it I wouldn’t bring it.

Sure a mech aint cheap but what happens when a fellow rider decides you are to blame for the damage to their 3k frame..

Im surprised this one is even up for debate

Just part of riding with other people. They may offer to pay as a nice gesture, you can then graciously refuse. Let’s hope it never gets like cars and the blame culture

I’m another one in the “one of the risks you accept on a group ride” camp – and I say this having recently written off a £4k road bike in a crash on a club ride.  If you want to ride in close proximity to other people you accept that there are risks of doing so.  For that I claimed on my insurance rather than blaming anyone else, but it wouldn’t be worth an insurance claim for a mech I wouldn’t have thought.

It’s nothing like another car crashing into you on the road.

Two bikes crashing into each other on the road is nothing like two cars crashing into each other on the road?

Yes, that’s totally obvious…

Two bikes crashing into each other on the road is nothing like two cars crashing into each other on the road?

Yes, that’s totally obvious…

I repeat, have you ever been involved in a group road ride?  Or even watched pro road cycling on the TV? The very point of a group road ride is to aim to get within 4 inches of the wheel in front and rotate through for aerodynamic and therefore energy saving advantage. The potential danger this causes is known by all and accepted as part of group riding. It is mitigated by good communication. It is like aircraft in formation rather than flying with minimum separation distance as would normally be the case.

If in normal driving a car on the road you crash into the back of someone you were too close to react. If you crash into a mtb you were following down a trail you were following too close to react. In a road group ride you are expected to ride too close to be able to react and would be chastised if you let a gap open up in front of you. The majority responsibility for crash avoidance shifts from the person following as would be the case normally to the person ahead to set the course and make sure there are no sudden decelerations.

To anyone who has done it I am afraid it is totally obvious it is different. Blindly so.

Have they had a medical check-up? Possible whiplash injury or other after effects plus loss of earnings. If the next bike up front was running disc brakes on a road bike then there is a definite claim there; it is well documented that these are not safe for use on the road. Plus, cafe stop? What’s that about then?

Being more serious – unless there was obvious bad riding / pi55ing about then, as others have said, suck it up IMO. Wonder how they deal with it in the TdF?!

The group should have a view on fault – if one or other did something stoopid then (morally) that’s their problem

If neither did anything obviously wrong, suck it up – they both chose to ride in a group where members (easy, Bez!) were unacceptable close together in all “normal” situations

Riding as a group on the road you are putting your faith in the person on front to signal changes of pace/hazards on the road.  I was taught not to swerve or break suddenly as this would put the group at more risk.  If the people in front of you were doing their job properly the message should have got to the person behind in time to react.

Based on what you have said you were more to blame than the person behind you.  Like other people have said don’t ride in a group with kit you can’t afford to replace.

Another vote for “shit happens”

This, definitely.  It can be a painful experience, but it’s how it is.

On a club ride a few years back, climbing an easy gradient through and off  around 30-35kmh. First rider fluffs a gear shift. Second rider slows, gets hit by third rider.  When the dust settled, rider 2’s brand new Supersix Evo was missing its rear triangle, both wheels (Lightweights iirc) completely tacoed.  Very difficult to suck that one up.

If you can afford to spend £189 on a rear bloody mech you can afford to replace it if you crash, and not worry about grabbing money off others involved

members (easy, Bez!) were unacceptable close together in all “normal” situations

Seems reasonable 🙂

Two bikes crashing into each other on the road is nothing like two cars crashing into each other on the road? Yes, that’s totally obvious…

Scenario A: You’re in the local park. You’re playing football with your friends. As you run along dribbling the ball, one of your friends tackle you and bungles it. In falling to the ground, you break your ankle.

Scenario B: You’re in the local park. You’re alone, on the way to play football with your friends, dribbling your ball. A person you’ve never met before runs across to tackle you and bungles it. In falling to the ground, you break your ankle.

Both public places, both the same action, but a completely different relationship and completely different expectations. You know that a football match involves close quarters and a risk of mishap and injury. However you don’t expect to be taken down outside of a match by people who haven’t undertaken a specific activity with a mutual agreement (whether explicit or implicit) of that sort of risk. Hence in one case, you largely have to put it down to experience (even though you’d expect your friend to be rather apologetic), whilst in the other you’d be quite rightly furious.

Or would you consider these scenarios to be identical?

Too many riders ride way too bling kit – that does not help either. Riding Lightweights on a club ride ffs – almost deserves what’s coming. A bike is a tool.

Threads like this really put me off going for a club ride.

Please don’t let it. Club group rides have reinvigorated my love of cycling over the last couple of years and opened my eyes to types of riding that I had never previously considered. Sometimes it can be a bit intimidating, but start at the bottom with the slower, more relaxed groups and gradually move up through the ranks. By the time you’re with the really fast, close-riding groups, you’ll know what your obligations are and won’t be worried any more – it’ll just be fun**.

My advice would be to find a group within your club that, while not being too aggressive, do at least practice good group riding techniques, then you’ll be getting used to riding in a group while being taught good technique. Good luck and I hope you enjoy your cycling!

(** Type 2 fun. Road cycling isn’t meant to actually be enjoyable – if it is, you’re not trying hard enough!)

Is it beyond repair?

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spares-shimano-rear-derailleurs/?groupset=dura-ace

Is it beyond repair?

If he doesn’t want to ride until September the jockey wheel cage is yes but not the parallelogram

52 posts and no ones blaming e-bikes ..

If he doesn’t want to ride until September the jockey wheel cage is yes but not the parallelogram

September? Is this referring to workshop backlog?

September? Is this referring to workshop backlog?

Work is already complete and bike is back on the road. The parts broken and bent are out of stock with the UK distributor until September earliest,  don’t worry all parties including the shop have scoured the internet for another solution

The parts broken and bent are out of stock with the UK distributor until September earliest

Ah, royal PITA when that happens. Oh well, I suppose they could fix it up as a spare, but I’ve had rear mechs that are never quite right after a crash, even when they look OK or have been repaired, so I think I’d have been tempted to junk it and replace anyway. Life’s too short for clicking gears!

Another incident that makes me thing riding in close groups on the road is not as safe as is often thought.

I would probably inclined to just take the hit if were me. Even if it was the other guys fault really, These things happen etc.

However…..

If the guy behind then blamed my disk brakes rather than his inability to concentrate properly……. then I’d be asking for full RRP + Shop time + Bike hire and claiming whiplash a month later through an online only lawyer.

Muppet 🙄

Massively different to normal traffic car on car action, or a normal bike ride. Riding as a group means agreeing to ride together and take as risk. As others have pointed out one factor in the bike you choose is the cost of replacement in the event of a crash.

It’s not quite the same as racing, where such incidents are pretty much guaranteed to occur at some point, but it is a risk you choose to take by being in the bunch. Pay for your own kit if you crash (or are crashed into), if someone offers to pay for it put it down to shock and decline. You could spend an awful amount of time arguing who was to blame otherwise – there’s always someone one step further in the chain reaction that caused the crash, don’t ride in a group if you’re not happy to roll the dice. I’ve avoided bunches when I had a recently broken wrist as the risk wasn’t worth it for me. Similarly if I’d bought the most expensive wonder bike I could afford, I might not be happy to risk it, or I might think what’s the point of not enjoying it. But if I got involved in a bunch incident, I’d have to downgrade or cough up.

To put it another way, if you trash a set of wheels at a trail centre, do you sue the trail centre? What if you trash a set of wheels due to a road defect (car or bike)? Totally different case despite some outward similarities.

I’d work on the rule that someone who’s running dura ace should be capable of fitting their own rear mech so would offer to pay for the damage if it was my fault but probably wouldn’t cough up for a bike shop to do the work – it’s a 5 minute job.

Just like someone riding a MTB with Eagle can set that up and fix it, I’d wager the vast majority cant, and why does owning a bike with expensive equipment come with the  prerequisite that you must be able to maintain and fix it yourself? Just like all those chaps with Ferrari’s who service them in their shed eh 😉

On another note, and back to the actual OP. If they’re club mates and amicable I’m sure they’ll come to a reasonable agreement, but at the end of the day, this stuff happens. If you’re taken down in a race (off or on road) I very much doubt the other party will offer to pay for the damage to your bike, unless they’re just an exceptionally kind / generous / guilty feeling kind of person.

the chap who hit the other one should offer to pay. However if they dont then its tough. You cant ask them

imo

I had it where i slid into someone on a ride. Knocked myself unconcious in the process but broke their rear mech. 100% accident and i offered to pay for any damage. They wouldnt accept a penny.

This is pretty much why I never got into group riding. Not because of money, but because you’re riding in a pack, too close for real safety, surrounded by all the usual road hazards etc, with people you don’t know a damn thing about. This sort of thing is always going to happen.

I’ve just started riding with a road club, after spending decades avoiding clubs. The amount of shouting and hand waving that goes on is incredible, but compared to another club I tried a few years back, the accident rate seems to be lower. If one of our groups is making a cafe stop, several people will be shouting ‘Slowing’ and making the hand signal for slowing. This means that you are less likely to get rear-ended, but if you do it’s pretty likely to be the rear-enders fault.

It’s probably just me but the few times I’ve ridden with/encountered “shouty groups” all the noise has seemed like more of a distraction and has just made it a more fraught experience, but I appreciate why it happens, a general lack/mixture of experience in the group and not everyone knowing each other, differing levels of  situational awareness/heads up looking about and anticipation of potential hazards… Oh and often simply too many people in the group.

Riding with people I know, we tend not to be a very vocal bunch (and stick to quite small 2-5 at most groups). The lead rider at any given time, knows to point out potholes, manhole covers and road surface issues, and we know each other well enough that we can ride at close quarters, not need to stare at one another’s back wheels covering the brakes constantly… so everyone can actually look ahead and anticipate what might be affecting the groups progress within the next 3-400 meters…

with people you don’t know a damn thing about.

Or people that you ride with week in, week out so you can learn their behaviour. Any group should also be winning to shout out someone for being a ****, this (or rather the lack of this) can be a problem in some clubs

It’s probably just me but the few times I’ve ridden with/encountered “shouty groups” all the noise has seemed like more of a distraction

I’m getting used to it. The club is growing very rapidly, with quite a lot of people relatively new to group riding. We usually end up in several groups of 10, so the people at at the back of a group will struggle to see potholes and so on, so there is a need for some kind of system.

If you can afford to spend £189 on a rear bloody mech you can afford to replace it if you crash, and not worry about grabbing money off others involved

no way of knowing from the information provided what proportion of the chap’s disposable income £189 represents, and how that differs from the crasher, you, me, or anyone else.

Two bikes crashing into each other on the road is nothing like two cars crashing into each other on the road? Yes, that’s totally obvious…

road bikes in a group are acting as one – the motoring equivalent would be a car driver braking for a cafe turnoff, and chap in the back seat spills his coffee all over the seats causing £189 worth of damage.

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Or people that you ride with week in, week out so you can learn their behaviour.

There are always new people. One of them was you.

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Indeed, so you make sure you keep an eye on them and any decent club will make sure they are quickly onboard with how things work.

Agree with the poster on page 1 who said ‘it depends’. No real liability, but finances, friendliness, guilt, and probably a bunch of other things come into effect. Like most things, it ain’t black & white even if some folks’ thinking is.

First rule of cycling in a group. Don’t race what you can’t replace. When riding in a group shit happens.